14 réponses à ce sujet

[heemeng]

I'm just starting on my rogue and planning to have a DW build that has 100% crit chance (CC) on regular attacks and at any angles (front + flanking). it'll be great to have your thoughts.

assuming a max level of 20, we can have up to 60 points of attributes. and we can buy a potion in black emporium to gives 2 attributes so we can a max of 62 attribute pts. we distribute it to give 41 cunning and the rest to dex (47 pts) so that we can get the best rogue dagger. btw, rogue start with 13 dex and 13 cunning.

so we will have at this point CC of 37% and crit damage of 81%

next, we take Precision (+10% CC), Duelist (+5% CC), En Garde (+10% CC). this would give us CC of 62%.

if we use unforgiving chain (+2% CC per basic attack up to max of 20%), we can up this CC to 82%.  i read somewhere that rogue gets 2 hits per sec so we can hit this in 5 secs.  If we get our mage to auto cast Haste (50% attack speed) whenever the rogue starts attacking an enemy, then we can get 82% in less than 3 secs...

against bosses, if we apply Throw the Gauntlets, we can get an extra 10% CC. So that means a total CC of 92%, just on basic attacks alone after less than 5 secs of attacking. and this is done without any equipment!!! i haven't even finished playing half of Act 1 so I don't know the equipments available yet but I have seen equipments that give extra +% to CC so i think that with the right equipment, to hit a CC of 100% (just need either +8% or +18% CC) should be very doable.

i haven' thought much yet about crit damage but what do you guys think so far? is this a feasible build?

[Aledeth]

It's feasible but you will be very squishy and generate a lot of aggro doing that much damage.

Also, there are other ways to get more attribute points than that one potion, and 20 is not the level cap.

[KallDay]

Yeah it's feasible. Heroic Aura gives the entire party +10% CC. Lots of +3-5% CC on equipment even in Act 1. Another wrinkle in this cunning plan is that the use of any other ability cancels the stacks from Unforgiving Chain.

I'd still have to test it to see whether auto-critting is the best use of a rogue's time.

[Seloun]

It can be done, but why? Your best attacks already auto-crit. Autoattack damage doesn't particularly benefit from being crit capped since it's not cooldown bound. All that crit chance goes to waste whenever you're attacking from behind, or in those special attacks. Generally you want to shed crit chance whenever you can for more crit damage or physical damage.

[heemeng]

thanks for all the thoughts!. altho the skills allow crits, the problem is that they are situational and limited. e.g., flanking only, backstab, assasinate, stealth, crit-on-stuns all have cooldown. whereas auto crits all the time would ignore cooldowns or directions.

in addition, by having autocrits, there's no longer a need to pick talents (thereby saving them) such as pinpoint strikes (100% CC for 10sec), predators (100% CC on flanking), backstab, etc. i havent honestly build a build yet. i think some crit dam may be sacrificed certainly. but exactly how much is lost vs a 100% autocrit which on the long run may yield more dps is the question

[Gegliosch]

If there were no abilities with increased crit, 1% crit chance would be equally good as 1% crit damage. The problem is, that every single damage skill will crit anyway, so crit chance is wasted while crit damage is not. Also, there's this shadow skill doubling the crit damage gain from cun.

Long story short, I'm certain you give up damage by pushing your crit chance just for auto attacks, while you could aswell increase the crit damage for every attack.

[ProfessionalPirate]

I just completed a playthrough with a rogue like that, 100% criticals, 170% critacal damage, I used a Duelist, high dex and cunning, weapons and armor that added crit dmg and crit chance, and got there pretty easy, and I use inconspicuos from the shadow tree to keep my threat low. and it was devastating, bosses health went away very, very quickly, and I'd use vendetta a lot, coupled with stagger, and I could one shot lutenents!

[Chief Savage Man]

I played as an archer and I had a crit chance approaching 100% by the end of the game. Made crowd control pretty easy, being able to dish out criticals without moving.

[termokanden]

Gegliosch wrote...

If there were no abilities with increased crit, 1% crit chance would be equally good as 1% crit damage. The problem is, that every single damage skill will crit anyway, so crit chance is wasted while crit damage is not. Also, there's this shadow skill doubling the crit damage gain from cun.

It's an Assassin skill but yeah the the point remains the same. As a rogue you shouldn't be tanking anyway so you easily flank and get 100% chance to crit from Predator (in the Shadow tree). Crit damage is way more important for sure, although if you're autoattacking a lot (happens often against bosses as an archer because you're just not getting any stamina back) you need to be able to hit. So attack is also important there.

So I try to balance attack and crit damage. I don't care much about crit chance though.

I just wish the Duelist tree wasn't so boring. I want the passive buffs, but to get there I have to take some really awful skills. Assassin and Shadow on the other hand have both insane passive buffs and activated skills.

[atheelogos]

ProfessionalPirate wrote...

I just completed a playthrough with a rogue like that, 100% criticals, 170% critacal damage, I used a Duelist, high dex and cunning, weapons and armor that added crit dmg and crit chance, and got there pretty easy, and I use inconspicuos from the shadow tree to keep my threat low. and it was devastating, bosses health went away very, very quickly, and I'd use vendetta a lot, coupled with stagger, and I could one shot lutenents!

Do you guys put anything into con, or is it all dex and cunning?

[heemeng]

To ProfessionalPirate: thanks for your input. it's great to know that it's a viable build. does your build works on Nightmare?

personally, since DWR hits very fast and frequent, in terms of damage, i feel that i rather have 100% CC and crit dam of 170% rather than lower (say 70% CC) and higher (say 200%) crit dam. also, why waste time on maneuvering (for Predator to work) or wait to stun (for Twist The Blade to work) or stealth (for Ambush to work) before one can crit? wouldn't it be better to just crit straight away?

anyway, that's just my feel. i wanna be the most efficient dam dealer and i think 100% CC DW rogue is the way (i might be wrong of course since the 2HW+Reaver+Berserker seems promising too!) to go.

this is the best part of DA2. there are so many viable builds!
btw, to

[blade12444]

i put a few on strengh , magic and heath as well as willpower , as geting knocked out and runing out of stamina makes the rouge useless

[Gegliosch]

heemeng wrote...

To ProfessionalPirate: thanks for your input. it's great to know that it's a viable build. does your build works on Nightmare?

personally, since DWR hits very fast and frequent, in terms of damage, i feel that i rather have 100% CC and crit dam of 170% rather than lower (say 70% CC) and higher (say 200%) crit dam. also, why waste time on maneuvering (for Predator to work) or wait to stun (for Twist The Blade to work) or stealth (for Ambush to work) before one can crit? wouldn't it be better to just crit straight away?

anyway, that's just my feel. i wanna be the most efficient dam dealer and i think 100% CC DW rogue is the way (i might be wrong of course since the 2HW+Reaver+Berserker seems promising too!) to go.

this is the best part of DA2. there are so many viable builds!
btw, to

It's more like 100% CC and 170% crit dmg on every attack versus 70% CC and 230% crit dam on basic attacks due to Devious Harm (2% crit dam per cun). BUT on skills it's even 100% CC and 230% damage. So it's more like a decision between a reasonable damage boost for basic attacks and a huge damage boost to skills. Considering you should be doing most of your damage via skills, the choice is pretty obvious. Just imagine how much a 60% damage boost to assassination is, compared to the nothingness you get by wasting CC on an auto-crit ability.

Modifié par Gegliosch, 14 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[Syonica]

blade12444 wrote...

i put a few on strengh , magic and heath as well as willpower , as geting knocked out and runing out of stamina makes the rouge useless

Why would you put any points into Strength and Magic as a rogue?  The point of this class is to not be the center of attention and to be gone when necessary, and is coupled with numerous talents to help you do so.  Avoid damage and hit like is truck is our goal.  Save your self the useless points and stay alert so you can dish out some higher dps

Dexterity and Cunning are primary but some points should be given into Willpower and Constitution for prolonged battles.

[blade12444]

Syonica wrote...

blade12444 wrote...

i put a few on strengh , magic and heath as well as willpower , as geting knocked out and runing out of stamina makes the rouge useless

Why would you put any points into Strength and Magic as a rogue?  The point of this class is to not be the center of attention and to be gone when necessary, and is coupled with numerous talents to help you do so.  Avoid damage and hit like is truck is our goal.  Save your self the useless points and stay alert so you can dish out some higher dps

Dexterity and Cunning are primary but some points should be given into Willpower and Constitution for prolonged battles.

just finshed the game and i did not need any more then 53 dex and 43 cunning the rest was in willpower and health and only 3 points total being put in to both magic and strength (not each)