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Same-Sex Romance in DA2


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#1
Akitainu28

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Still w8ing for my DA2 SE, slow postal service ftw, but managed to get some hand on xp at my gf's. Should have gotten regular edition at local game store instead of ordering online but what ever. Game is pretty good but there still one issue with it at least.


In DAO gay romance was extremely aggressive with hall Zevran trap, which made you wonder why am I being punished for not being gay and wondering about the agenda of the hall thing.
In DA2 hall thing is toned down, though it is still advantageous to engage in at least bit of flirting, depending on your class, group set up, unlocks;  you simply get more points for it and get faster to friends status then you would playing it "straight".


On the other hand as compensation to hall toned down thing the volume of the content has increased. Depending on how you see Marill (kid sister, teen boy) you might consider it even greater then straight romance content. Indicative of this is the fact that the gay elf prostitute is the only one marked in the brothel, as I read online there a unmarked madam walking around the crowd as well but I did not find here, though I did not spend 2much time looking for here. At very least she deserved a mark as well so you could find here. For a while there we though he was the only option and was astonished and was wondering where are the girls? Had to google it in the end to figure it out.


I understand Bioware wants to be edgy, innovative, hall thing is a PR stunt to bust sales or there is internal or external lobbying going on or what ever the reason content is still in in you face and forced onto everyone.
Content is still in you face, force fed to you. As some of you might argue in your response, in DA2 you do not have to engage into flirtation with the same sex and its clearly indicates what conversation option is for that.
That is beside the point (thus it is only toned down bit  from DAO)  just the fact that the option exist in the conversation wheel, the hints in the conversation by itself is more then enough; for the realization that there is sexual tension between your character and  another character of  the same sex.
The fact that that gay character find you attractive, has sexual innuendo, changes that way you see that character regardless of your own preference. The demeanour of the character changes and he is not the same as the others that do not have that same innuendo.


The content is enjoyed by a small number of the gamers/customers, good for them I say. Some may support it, like the fact that is there and presented as it is for various reasons though they do not engage in the content itself.  Majority is indifferent to it or endures it.


Now to make things perfectly clear here so this thread does not get hijacked, misinterpreted or that sentences do not get taken out off content and used for someones personal agenda I will use an analogy. Firstly I have nothing against the content itself! I just have an issue with its presentation that is the fact that I am forced to consume it, even by just acknowledging its presence while I play.


Now for the analogy. Its like having a favorite colour. Lets say the colour is blue and you are buying a car. You want you car to be painted in your favorite colour, blue. You have nothing against any other color in the light spectrum, you just prefer blue. Regretfully the car manufacturer sells that particular model of the car in 2 tone, red and blue. Without an option for a solid paint job in blue!


Thus here is the most important part of this thread. My suggestion for DA3! As we all know well games have came out in the past that ask you when you start the game for the 1st time to turn on or off mature content. That is what I would like to see in DA3. Anyone reasonable among you without his or here agenda can agree with this without reservation, giving people a true option, not as thing stand an illusion of an option.
So what I would like to see is an option in game options to turn on and off gay content. It simply enables/disables certain conversation lines. It is like that companion or NPC has installed "gaydar" as soon as he see you in the game he know you are gay or not gay depending on your selection in potions and acts accordingly. Simple and fair to all without forcing any preferences.


I can not see anyone reasonably arguing against this, giving people an option in not participating in something that they do not want to especially when its is a matter of sexuality, instead of having it spoon fed to them through the game.


Now I tired to tread lightly thus the wall of text, because I know this thread is sensitive in nature.

I fully understand the vocal minority will hijack this thread and all I wrote is Sizif's job.I just  wanted to open a mature discussion about it, without and prejudice. If you do not know who Sizif was I will use another analogy. Don Quixote vs windmills. If you still don't get it can't  help you there.

Modifié par Akitainu28, 12 mars 2011 - 10:41 .


#2
Akitainu28

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guess I made my point

#3
coolair74

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I think I agree with you, if you are saying that you would perfer a game where you had gay/strait, male/female options before the game starts and then the game tailors those choices for you so you dont get manjina from everyone and anyone.

#4
v_ware

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You don't have to go gay. Nobody forces you. A game that makes you able to choose as you please should not make you uncomfortable. Unless choice terrifies you, which would be pretty sad.

Being adult about sexuality still seems pretty hard. Kinda disturbing.

#5
Russalka

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Do you ever see gay or bisexual people complain over this?

#6
v_ware

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Russalka wrote...

Do you ever see gay or bisexual people complain over this?


"BUT THATS NOT THE SAME THING!! WE ARE A MAJORITY AND THEY SHOULD COMFORM TO OUR STANDARDS!!!"

That is an actual quote. (may not have been in caps lock, that's just for added effect :P ) I still use it every time this comes up. Showes what's wrong with that way of thinking.

#7
noodlevixen

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I agree with v_ware, no one forces you to be gay. The fact that it makes you so uncomfortable to have a male character come on to you just shows how immature you are about the subject. Is saying no really that hard?

#8
v_ware

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noodlevixen wrote...
The fact that it makes you so uncomfortable to have a male character come on to you just shows how immature you are about the subject. Is saying no really that hard?


I think it only is when you like sausages.

#9
Russalka

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I recall a person being horrified that their Hawke ACTUALLY had a flirt option with male characters. He did not like it how it is even possible that his character could have it there, which would have meant that he was thinking about it!

#10
orbit991

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You get a little heart icon whenever you choose a flirty response, don't use it on the same sex if don't want to. Flirting doesn't necessarily increase friendship either unless you go all the way, in fact often the friendly response will get you a "friend" bonus while a romantic wont.

#11
MarvelousWarrior

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noodlevixen wrote...

I agree with v_ware, no one forces you to be gay. The fact that it makes you so uncomfortable to have a male character come on to you just shows how immature you are about the subject. Is saying no really that hard?


I agree. I just want better heterosexual (male) options!

#12
JabbaDaHutt30

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anders just made a pass on my (male) hawke. i guess life with the grey wardens was lonely for him.

#13
MPSai

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Involving opportunities for same-sex romance is "edgy"? As opposed to, I dunno, realistic? Normal?

Besides it was part of Zev's character to be flirty and shameless, if you tell him you're not interested he doesn't persist. You'll probably not be happy to know that every potential romance character is available to BOTH genders in DA2. Now if only we could see that in Mass Effect.

Modifié par MPSai, 12 mars 2011 - 07:43 .


#14
JabbaDaHutt30

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v_ware wrote...

noodlevixen wrote...
The fact that it makes you so uncomfortable to have a male character come on to you just shows how immature you are about the subject. Is saying no really that hard?


I think it only is when you like sausages.


it's hard if you get a +15 to rivalry when you say no to letting anders in your pants.

#15
arghhhjustletmein

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I think that if the same sex romance is important enough to the story, to the universe the story is set in, then we shouldn't be able to turn the option off or on. I think it is a decision that you as a customer have to make when deciding whether to make the purchase, that is your choice right there.

Did they make a version of the film Philadelphia that removed the gay content, no.
Did Trudi Canavan write a version of 'The Black Magician' trilogy without the gay character, no.

I think it is something you just have to accept is a part and parcel of the world of Dragon Age, this is an 18 rated game and I'm afraid that if someone is over the age of 18 but unable to deal with there being some homosexual related content in a game then need to really look into why they feel that way.

I personally have no issue with the same sex romance in the game, in fact I applaud Bioware for including the issue in their gameworld, if it gets even a few people to challenge their preconceptions on the issue then it is worth it imho, and I say this as someone who is a straight male and when I was younger would have been considered to be quite homophobic in my views. But you know what happened, over time I watched movies like Philadelphia and cringed my way through the 'gay' stuff until at the end I was thinking, you know what that was a great movie. I read the Black Magician Trilogy, and at the start was thinking 'Oh come on, is there any need to have gays in a fantasy book', by the end I was glad the character had been included. Over time I learned that it does no good to hate somebody because they are different in some way to you, these days I don't care whether someone is gay or not, my attitude is 'If it makes you happy then I'm happy for you'.

I think sometimes you have to just accept the fantasy world you are going into for what it is, and instead of making demands about what real world content it should or shouldn't have, maybe try to just open the mind up to challenging the way you maybe feel about certain things, it might not change your opinion on things, but if you are at least able to challenge your feelings then thats a good thing imho.

Modifié par arghhhjustletmein, 12 mars 2011 - 07:44 .


#16
Jelefant

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Noone forces you to be gay, but Anders sure comes close to that

#17
subliminal_city

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orbit991 wrote...

You get a little heart icon whenever you choose a flirty response, don't use it on the same sex if don't want to. Flirting doesn't necessarily increase friendship either unless you go all the way, in fact often the friendly response will get you a "friend" bonus while a romantic wont.


This.
If you don't like it, don't use it. It's as simple as that.

#18
Russalka

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JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

it's hard if you get a +15 to rivalry when you say no to letting anders in your pants.


Do you not actually have to flirt with him first to get this sort of dialogue? 

#19
Csec_2

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When I first saw Zevran in DA:O, the first thing I thought was "I'll bet this guy is gay", and it turned out that way. However, he was quite charming when I talked to him. I ended up doing foursome with Isabela, and I kinda wanted Zevran to join.
I think that if I were gay, I would probably romance him over and over and over and never get tired of him

#20
JabbaDaHutt30

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Russalka wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

it's hard if you get a +15 to rivalry when you say no to letting anders in your pants.


Do you not actually have to flirt with him first to get this sort of dialogue? 



never did. all I did was pick the 'peaceful' ( olive branch ) dialogue lines.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 12 mars 2011 - 07:44 .


#21
coolair74

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noodlevixen wrote...

I agree with v_ware, no one forces you to be gay. The fact that it makes you so uncomfortable to have a male character come on to you just shows how immature you are about the subject. Is saying no really that hard?



Yeah you make a personal choice and you get branded a Homophobe. Never said it made me anything. Just agreed that an option might be a good thing.  

#22
JabbaDaHutt30

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I predict a 'turn homosexuality off' option in future Bioware games. I think the TC would like that. Who's with me?? :P

#23
coolair74

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MPSai wrote...

Involving opportunities for same-sex romance is "edgy"? As opposed to, I dunno, realistic? Normal?

Besides it was part of Zev's character to be flirty and shameless, if you tell him you're not interested he doesn't persist. You'll probably not be happy to know that every potential romance character is available to BOTH genders in DA2. Now if only we could see that in Mass Effect.



Please no, no no. Going gay is one thing, alien gay is just too much.

#24
Russalka

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JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

never did. all I did was pick the 'peaceful' ( olive branch ) dialogue lines.


Very well, then I do not know. They promised that they had removed the "Zevran effect". But I suppose it happens, people flirt with each other, reject each other. One could gain those friendship points back too.

#25
MPSai

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coolair74 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

Involving opportunities for same-sex romance is "edgy"? As opposed to, I dunno, realistic? Normal?

Besides it was part of Zev's character to be flirty and shameless, if you tell him you're not interested he doesn't persist. You'll probably not be happy to know that every potential romance character is available to BOTH genders in DA2. Now if only we could see that in Mass Effect.



Please no, no no. Going gay is one thing, alien gay is just too much.


Yes but alien interspecies sex is just fine!