88 réponses à ce sujet

[Monochrome Wench]

Examining the save games my plot flags are set to what they should be but the debug script says they are wrong.

Changing the plot flags in the save game changes *almost* everything in the vault debugger.

I cleared *all* the flags and it still reports Leliana having slept with Isabela, and that I romanced Morrigan, both of which should be false.

When I set all the flags the following (at least) were incorrect:
It said i didn't have a romance with Alistair (is listed twice)
It said i didn't have a romance with Zeveran (is listed twice)
It said I didn't make love to Morrigan
It said I didn't make love to Leliana

There were other plot flags too that didn't seem to vary between the flags being clear and being set. My feeling is that the debug script itself is broken rather than some more complicated reason such as mutually exclusive flags preventing things that should be set from appearing.

Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 17 mars 2011 - 11:51 .

[durasteel]

I think this is a clear indication of why you need more than 5 guys on your QA team. I watched the credits after my first game and listened to the music (enjoyed it) and boggled when I saw only 5 names under QA. I also noticed that a fair bit was outsourced to Russia and India, it seems.

I really hope they get this crap ironed out for the patch, and I wish someone at BioWare would take note of the poor track record of Dragon Age QA and beef it up for future releases. Seriously, guys - polish is damn important.

[Niniva]

Hmm.. there doesnt seem to be a da2.rim file in the folder for me at all, to examine. Any idea why? Im running steam version.

[PSUHammer]

This is the kind of stuff that should be 101 beta testing...

[jenovan]

Niniva wrote...

Hmm.. there doesnt seem to be a da2.rim file in the folder for me at all, to examine. Any idea why? Im running steam version.

Hmm, wish I knew :/  I'm not familiar with the Steam installation -- mine's off the physical copy.  Maybe someone else will chime in?

Monochrome Wench wrote...

Examining the save games my plot flags are set to what they should be but the debug script says they are wrong.

Changing the plot flags in the save game changes *almost* everything in the vault debugger.

I cleared *all* the flags and it still reports Leliana having slept with Isabela, and that I romanced Morrigan, both of which should be false.

When I set all the flags the following (at least) were incorrect:
It said i didn't have a romance with Alistair (is listed twice)
It said i didn't have a romance with Zeveran (is listed twice)
It said I didn't make love to Morrigan
It said I didn't make love to Leliana

There were other plot flags too that didn't seem to vary between the flags
being clear and being set. My feeling is that the debug script itself is broken rather than some more complicated reason such as mutually exclusive flags preventing things that should be set from appearing.

Oooh, thanks for that.  I haven't checked the "make love to" flags, but this is the second time I've heard of Leli's being incorrect (as well as the romance flags)..  The Morrigan romance flag being stuck is interesting -- that, I didn't see in my own testing.  Where does your import come from?

It's definitely possible that this is an issue with the debugging script itself... except that many players whose Wardens romanced Leliana are not getting that fact mentioned in their games, while others are.  I don't think I've heard from anyone who got that sort of acknowledgment from Zevran, whereas the guidebook (which could also be incorrect) implies that he should act differently in a "world" where he was in a relationship with the Warden.  It's a lot of little things that seem off, and we can't find the truth of it (at least not easily) without the toolset to poke at the dialogue

Modifié par jenovan, 18 mars 2011 - 02:29 .

[SMTPersona]

jenovan wrote...

DestinationTruthFTW wrote...

So has anyone been able to adjust the romance flags to the 'correct' ones that each of us imported from Origins and its various expansions?

I haven't had a chance to test for myself yet (stuck at work for quite a while longer), but ishmaeltheforsaken reported that her Origins save import, with Leliana romanced, reported correctly in the debug console in DA2.  If that holds true for all romances (or even just that one, really), it means that the expansions are bugging up something different, and possibly more fundamental, than the romance flags, because many people are seeing apparently "correct" flags read incorrectly in DA2.

As far as adjusting the flags during gameplay of DA2 (via the console), I don't think a way to do that has been worked out yet.

Also, I've been reading this thread, but I'm still unclear as to how you guys are able to change the flags of your imports, including the romance flags and other flags from Origins and its expansions. If anyone would be kind enough to break it down for me, or show me where the guide to change the flags of my import. Thanks in advance.

The changing of flags we're talking about are of the DA2 savegames, so in other words, after you've imported a DA:O/AA/WH save.  That's the process outlined in the top post. 

(In figuring out how to do this and talking with more experienced modders, I'm positive there's a way to edit the DA:O etc. saves, and it would be very similar to this process, but I'm not sure exactly what it is.  That could provide a different sort of testing -- to see how individual flags are handled in the DA2 import process -- but it's not something I've personally tried yet.)

As far as this being patched -- we can only hope.   Given all the romance bugs that were in DA:O that were fixed by modders, I don't think there's a huge impetus on Bioware's part to fix those specifically, but there are enough import issues in general that these might get caught up in a larger overall fix, which would be great.

Hey thanks a lot for answering my questions, it cleared up a lot for me! So basically, there's no way to adjust the flags of the imported save files by using zz_vault_debug with the console right? I've tried it myself personally and I'm unable to make changes to the flags. By the way, is it possible to adjust the flags by using the gff editor to make changes to the save files of Dragon Age 2? I've recently started to use the gff editor, so I'm still very inexperienced to this..

 Well I'm hoping you and the other modders would be able to solve these issue(s), because it doesn't seem like Bioware would be making a move to solve this. If there's anyway I can help, please let me know, though I'm not exactly a modder

[Monochrome Wench]

I used the post coronation save from origins.

[Naitaka]

Well if you manually check the flag in your save file (DA2 save file), you'll see that your Origin flag did indeed import correctly regardless of which DLC you have done. However, the game (DA2) does NOT read those flags properly. The most obvious one being the Leliana romance flag. Unless you've never played Awakening or Witch Hunt, the flag will always "appear" to be false in the in-game debug script. However, if you check your save file. Leliana's romance is correctly flagged as 1, not 0. The end result is that you will NOT get the right dialogue during Leliana scene because the game is disregarding the flag that's in your save.

EDIT: This is in fact very good news because they can fix this problem with a patch to DA2 alone and your save games have not been corrupted by the import proccess.

Modifié par Naitaka, 18 mars 2011 - 04:18 .

[Monochrome Wench]

Some more info here. Using an awakening save, compared to an origin save, has the flags set almost identically (except for awakening specific info). However the script reports no romance with leliana. However in awakening imports it doesn't import any of the character state details of origins party members (specializtions, talents, xp, approvals, etc). That appears to be quite important.

Looking at the world vault info in the save game  these are details of what it contains:

The 17603 array stores various basic character information about party members (attributes, xp, level, approval, etc). It is significantly smaller in awakening saves as it doesn't include any details of Origins party members.
The 17606 array stores information about the player as well as Skills, Talents, Spells and Equipped Items of party members. Again it is significantly smaller in awakening saves because it lacks any of the details from Origins party members.
The 17607 array contains the plot flags as well as what specializations each party member had. Awakening saves have none of the specializations flags set for any Origin party members.

The 16401 array is plot flags indexed by plotguid. The worldvault file lists the various giuds used by origins when importing the data into the other arrays. This stuff seems to just have been directly copied from the imported savegames SAVEGAME_PARTYLIST\\SAVEGAME_PLOTMANAGER\\SAVEGAME_PLOT_LIST. I dont think its directly used by the game except to set the other arrays the first time. This array is quite a bit larger in awakening savegames compared to origin ones. My guess is all the data here is kept when importing origin savegames into awakening, though i haven't done a great deal of comparisons.

All that stuff said play around i found the following which explains a lot.

tl;dr

If DAO_LELIANA_APPROVAL (value 1133 in array 17603) is less than 91 or APP_LELIANA_ROMANCE_ACTIVE (2042 in array 17607) is false then the zz_vault_debug reports no romance. As the approval rating for Origin party members is not in Awakening savegames then it always reports no romance. Adding the missing DAO_LELIANA_APPROVAL value into an awakening savegame and setting it to a value above or equal to 91 does as expected cause zz_vault_debug to report the player did romance leliana.

Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 18 mars 2011 - 05:44 .

[Naitaka]

Monochrome Wench wrote...


Some more info here. Using an awakening save, compared to an origin save, has the flags set almost identically (except for awakening specific info). However the script reports no romance with leliana. However in awakening imports there it doesn't import any of the character state details of origins party members (specializtions, talents, xp, approvals, etc). That appears to be quite important.

Looking at the world vault info in the save game  these are details of what it contains:

The 17603 array stores various basic character information about party members (attributes, xp, level, approval, etc). It is significantly smaller in awakening saves as it doesn't include any details of Origins party members.
The 17606 array stores information about the player as well as Skills, Talents, Spells and Equipped Items of party members. Again it is significantly smaller in awakening saves because it lacks any of the details from Origins party members.
The 17607 array contains the plot flags as well as what specializations each party member had. Awakening saves have none of the specializations flags set for any Origin party members.

The 16401 array is plot flags indexed by plotguid. The worldvault file lists the various giuds used by origins when importing the data into the other arrays. This stuff seems to just have been directly copied from the imported savegames SAVEGAME_PARTYLISTSAVEGAME_PLOTMANAGERSAVEGAME_PLOT_LIST. I dont think its directly used by the game except to set the other arrays the first time. This array is quite a bit larger in awakening savegames compared to origin ones. My guess is all the data here is kept when importing origin savegames into awakening, though i haven't done a great deal of comparisons.

All that stuff said play around i found the following which explains a lot.

If DAO_LELIANA_APPROVAL (value 1133 in array 17603) is less than 91 or APP_LELIANA_ROMANCE_ACTIVE (2042 in array 17607) is false then the zz_vault_debug reports no romance. As the approval rating for Origin party members is not in Awakening savegames then it always reports no romance. Adding the missing DAO_LELIANA_APPROVAL value into an awakening savegame and setting it to a value above or equal to 91 does as expected cause zz_vault_debug to report the player did romance leliana.

Awesome work! I'll go test it out when I get home from work, this sounds promising. I wonder if the Nathaniel bug can be fix with this method as well. (Nat always appear to leave the Warden and mention Architect as being alive)

[Naitaka]

Alright I just tried it out and Nathaniel's Warden Flag, all companion romance flag set properly if you add the approval value to 17603 array. However, the made love to flag still appear as false in the debug script even though it's set to true in the save file. So I'm stuck again...

Update: I just went and tried out multiple "Origin only" saves and none of the Make Love flag show up properly even though the romance flag now works. Man this is just weird...

Can anyone send me an import where Leliana or Morrigan's made love to flag appear as true in the in-game script properly? Many thanks.

Modifié par Naitaka, 18 mars 2011 - 07:18 .

[Wabach]

I confirm that the if approval is set to 17603 array for Nathaniel, he got the still warden flag.
I got a character who romances Alistair. I set the approval to get get the romance flag but the vault debug report 2 lines :
- Alistair Romances
- Alistair did not romance
Why do i have 2 lines for Alistair. I check other and got only 1 romance flag in the vault...

[Ragadurn]

That it checks for approval ... doesn't make too much sense, does it?

Even if it does, seems you found the reason for all the chaos. I really really hope they read this / know it already and fix it with the first regular patch.

[Naitaka]

Wabach wrote...

I confirm that the if approval is set to 17603 array for Nathaniel, he got the still warden flag.
I got a character who romances Alistair. I set the approval to get get the romance flag but the vault debug report 2 lines :
- Alistair Romances
- Alistair did not romance
Why do i have 2 lines for Alistair. I check other and got only 1 romance flag in the vault...

Hmm, you're right about Alistair, I didn't notice the second line for romance, that IS really weird...

[Monochrome Wench]

Ragadurn wrote...

That it checks for approval ... doesn't make too much sense, does it?

Even if it does, seems you found the reason for all the chaos. I really really hope they read this / know it already and fix it with the first regular patch.

It does make sense actually. Its quite possible in Origins to get into a relationship, make love to the person and then do something that causes a large approval drop causing them to stop liking you, ending the relationship..

They are using the in relationship flags to indicate whether or not you were ever in a relationship with the char and then using the approval value to determine if you are still in the relationship.

The part that is broken is if the approval value doesn't exist in the savegame its defaulting to nothing. It should default to some reasonable value based on the other flags. Personally if i were coding the flag importing I would have set the approval value to 100 IF it didn't exist and the in relationship flag was set and there wasn't another flag set that would otherwise suggest the player couldn't have a high enough value (such as defiling the ashes would indicate that you probably can't still be in a relationship with Leliana even if the relationship flag was set).

I guess you could probably alternatively say the thing that is broken is purely that they are using values from the imported savegames that don't exist in all savegames in the first place.

Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 18 mars 2011 - 11:19 .

[Ragadurn]

Well, if approval data is not carried through the imports via DLC but all the story flags are, then adding a "still in relationship" flag and later only checking for this would have been the logical way to do it, even if approval checking makes sense storywise.

As it seems, the fact that approval values do not carry over must have been noticed too late, then. I still hope that this can be fixed, although I'm now officially confused whether this is still possible.

The only thing I now is that I simply can't play through the game with former companions or LIs getting stuff wrong. Would feel like an alternative universe. I'd do the Cassandra thing all the time, shouting: "But this is not how it happened!"

Modifié par Ragadurn, 18 mars 2011 - 11:27 .

[Naitaka]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

Ragadurn wrote...

That it checks for approval ... doesn't make too much sense, does it?

Even if it does, seems you found the reason for all the chaos. I really really hope they read this / know it already and fix it with the first regular patch.

It does make sense actually. Its quite possible in Origins to get into a relationship, make love to the person and then do something that causes a large approval drop causing them to stop liking you, ending the relationship..

They are using the in relationship flags to indicate whether or not you were ever in a relationship with the char and then using the approval value to determine if you are still in the relationship.

The part that is broken is if the approval value doesn't exist in the savegame its defaulting to nothing. It should default to some reasonable value based on the other flags. Personally if i were coding the flag importing I would have set the approval value to 100 IF it didn't exist and the in relationship flag was set and there wasn't another flag set that would otherwise suggest the player couldn't have a high enough value (such as defiling the ashes would indicate that you probably can't still be in a relationship with Leliana even if the relationship flag was set).

I guess you could probably alternatively say the thing that is broken is purely that they are using values from the imported savegames that don't exist in all savegames in the first place.

Monochrome, have you figured out why the made love to flag always comes out as false in the debug script? I been trying to find why it's happening but even the Origin ONLY save have the same problem when checking the flags with the in-game debug script.

Modifié par Naitaka, 18 mars 2011 - 11:59 .

[Monochrome Wench]

No I haven't looked much into it yet. I'll probably look at it tomorow.

[HotshotMAR]

I tested out Monochrome's solution (adding the 1133 to the DA2 save) on a savegame I had and then went and did the Faith quest with Sebastian. I am happy to say that the dialogue with Leliana all played out correctly finally, so thank you much to Monochrome. I wonder if some other import issues could be fixed with similar solutions?

[jenovan]

Wooow, lots of awesome work, Monochrome! Bit tied up today but I'll try to add a summary to the top post later -- this is good stuff.

It seems like the remaining question (for the LIs, anyway) is why the "made love to" flags are coming up false from Origins saves, but correct in subsequent DLC saves.

[PSUHammer]

Hmmm...so I will have to do this now to get mine to work properly....Thanks guys. Let's hope a patch takes days, and not weeks!!

[jenovan]

Wabach wrote...

I confirm that the if approval is set to 17603 array for Nathaniel, he got the still warden flag.
I got a character who romances Alistair. I set the approval to get get the romance flag but the vault debug report 2 lines :
- Alistair Romances
- Alistair did not romance
Why do i have 2 lines for Alistair. I check other and got only 1 romance flag in the vault...

Zevran also has two flags, and I've heard of them being set to different values (never both to True)... I wonder if those are keying off separate things, and if so, what those things are

[mesmerizedish]

I can't seem to find the key for Leliana's approval in my save... the 17603 has keys for 1000, 1001, and then all of 1031 through 1048. No 1133, though...

[Naitaka]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I can't seem to find the key for Leliana's approval in my save... the 17603 has keys for 1000, 1001, and then all of 1031 through 1048. No 1133, though...

You need to add a new entry for it if it's not in your list, it won't be there if you imported a save from anywhere other than Origins.

[HotshotMAR]

You have to create a separate save to copy it from. Start a new game, import the history you want from the Origins base game. Then open up the newly-created DA2 save and you will be able to find 1133, along with a bunch of others that are missing. Simply copy 1133 from that save and paste it into your desired save's  17603 section.

Modifié par HotshotMAR, 18 mars 2011 - 04:33 .