18 réponses à ce sujet

[Jenna WSI]

I'm trying to use this tileset with my other haks, and it overwrites the original NWN tileset.. which causes problems for work that was already done in that tileset. Would anyone want to make it so that it does not override the original? 

download file

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 12 mars 2011 - 05:10 .

[Jenna WSI]

I can't get a break it seems... also having door issues. Had to import all my areas that were using CEP doors (using an older mod) in order to get them to show up again in the new module with haks. And now the normal NWN doors are missing here and there, but not every one of them. Sigh.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Jenna WSI wrote...

I'm trying to use this tileset with my other haks, and it overwrites the original NWN tileset.. which causes problems for work that was already done in that tileset. Would anyone want to make it so that it does not override the original? 

download file

Those sets were "sorted" to make them much easier to develop with, however, since they have been sorted there is absolutely NO WAY to make them work with areas created with the original bioware.set files.  In other words, the tile numbers were sorted resulting in changing their position/tile number within the set.  This changes what tiles get assigned to what groups etc.

To make them a Non-Override version would require complete renaming of the entire set.  IE renames of all the tiles, not just file names but internal names in each mdl, you would also have to make the change within each .set file.  There is a program found on the vault called Tileset Duplicater which can accomplish that task for you although I have know how it will handle the ITP files necessary to make things work.  I typically do this sort of thing with text tools that do global search/replace. 

You are talking a huge amount of work, none of it really difficult, but It will NOT be a quick fix and no garauntees that it will work when you thnk you have it finished.

Dragonessa did a great job on these two sets by the way, she always does.  She also never worries about saving some old area in an old mod, she just recreates them as needed.  Which is what you will likely have to do here.

Since these were not found/placed on the vault, you would have to gain Dragonessa's explicit permission to modify them as well.  I know she normally keeps her work for her own PW and does not like things to be given away without at least acknowledging where they came from.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Jenna WSI wrote...

I can't get a break it seems... also having door issues. Had to import all my areas that were using CEP doors (using an older mod) in order to get them to show up again in the new module with haks. And now the normal NWN doors are missing here and there, but not every one of them. Sigh.

Search your varaious haks for a doortypes.2da file, likely you will find several and they all have to be merged correctly to allow them to work.  This will also mean that you may have to edit the individual tilesets in use to match whatever new numbers you may be forced to use when you adjust the top/overriding/NEW doortypes.2da

Jenna, you are attempting to do a HUGE amount of changes/modifications to an apparently very old module.  You are begging for more trouble as you go along.  Take it slower, MUCH slower.  If you want to add a new tiles, do so, but get it working before you go and add more tilesets.  Same with any other content.  By working, I don't mean just that you can save/compile the module, but that it actually works in game.

So far you have had "major" issues with all sorts of content. Placeables, clothing, tilesets, doors, etc.  Work on ONE bit of the project at a time.  Test it thoroughly, meaning actually play through any areas that you have to see if they actually do what you intend them to do. 

I would venture a guess that you will end up with several scripting issues with this project that you have not even seen yet, since you have not had the time to play test.  Scripts will compile etc, even with major errors, and you may think it was successul, however, a later version of that same script, loaded in a different hak or override folder, may totally change what the intended function(s) were supposed to do.

The type of project you are attempting to accomplish typically takes a large team, long hours of work.  Not just merging things, but ensuring that the module storyline still functions etc.  A single person attempting this sort of huge project typically burns out or has major issues with the results.

Please note, that none of what I am saying is intended as a personal attack or anything like that, I am just saying that you need to slow down to get it working.

[henesua]

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

The type of project you are attempting to accomplish typically takes a large team, long hours of work.  Not just merging things, but ensuring that the module storyline still functions etc.  A single person attempting this sort of huge project typically burns out or has major issues with the results.

Please note, that none of what I am saying is intended as a personal attack or anything like that, I am just saying that you need to slow down to get it working.

Agreed. I upgraded all of the haks for Vives recently, and it was a chore. I am still running into bugs in game when I least expect it. And its just me doing most of the work. Players playtest, and I fix. It burned me out, and now I'm working on another mod just to have some fun. Its hard to make myself sit down and work on Vives at this point.

Modifié par henesua, 13 mars 2011 - 01:30 .

[Calvinthesneak]

Yup, agreed, hak work is tedious and boring and very easy to drop details. As different as the work might be for clothes or tiles or classes or or whatever else, it's a lot the same. Attention to detail. Finding out that one detail leads to another detail. Learning how to fix the issues that you encounter.

Typically I spend 2 months on a set of clothing haks. other things less other things more, really depends. I'm quick at it, but as Banor and the others pointed out you still miss things. Hoping to finish off an entire module worth of stuff in like one month is a bad idea.

[Jenna WSI]

"Since these were not found/placed on the vault, you would have to
gain Dragonessa's explicit permission to modify them as well.  I know
she normally keeps her work for her own PW and does not like things to
be given away without at least acknowledging where they came from."

Oh that's no issue, I got the files directly from her and have been in contact a bit.

And actually... you're right on the money with the comments about working fast and still getting burnt out. I don't enjoy dev work. I'd much rather hand it over to someone else. Originally I was only supposed to be a builder. No scripting, hak adding, nothing but dming and building. And to be honest I wish that's how it still was... but if I don't do these things no one else will. Turned out our original Dev didn't like work very much, so I dunno why he signed up for the job.  And now we don't have anyone that really knows enough to take the position. And since I'd like to remake the server into a certain vision... I stumble through it hoping for the easiest solution. And... it turns out nothing in NWN is all that easy. So yeah.. perhaps I'll go back and forth between heads/clothing/tilesets so I get less burnt out. Looking at something new(ish) helps push away the frustration.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 13 mars 2011 - 02:24 .

[Jenna WSI]

Edit: Forums not working

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 13 mars 2011 - 02:21 .

[Jenna WSI]

Edit: Forums not working

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 13 mars 2011 - 02:21 .

[Jenna WSI]

Huh. I guess I can't post anymore on the forums now.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Jenna WSI wrote...

Huh. I guess I can't post anymore on the forums now.

No, you just were trying to get it done too fast again 

Sometimes, these forums don't respond back to you when you post, as quickly as they normally do.  Could be maintenance being performed or just a heavy load of folks browsing etc...

As it turned out, your post hit 3 times...

[Jenna WSI]

Shush >.>
I waited like an hour between some of the posts actually.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 13 mars 2011 - 02:22 .

[Jenna WSI]

Also... I'm not really sure what to look for to even spot bugs before they happen with tilesets, even common things. I tested the tilesets by making test areas in each new tileset, and it seemed okay... until the door issue came up.


Removing the extra 2da door files did fix the issue though, so thanks for the answer.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 13 mars 2011 - 04:22 .

[Jenna WSI]

Curious... are there going to be problems with the other 2das that individual haks have, such as portraits, loadscreens, etc?

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Jenna WSI wrote...
Removing the extra 2da door files did fix the issue though, so thanks for the answer.

This will cause issues.  You need to MERGE the different doortypes.2da files.  Look for differences in them, and merge the lines together.  Otherwise, your features/groups that have tileset specific doors, will no longer have any doors at all.  Likely, with single doors, this can be overcome by the builder by placing generic doors when you build the area, but any specially shaped / double wide, etc doors, will be missing and no longer available at all.

Curious... are there going to be problems with the other 2das that individual haks have, such as portraits, loadscreens, etc?

  There is a possibility that the loadscreens would have to be merged as well.

Files you have to check for differences:

areag.ini - This one is less critical, but it SHOULD be checked regardless.  It can affect how the tilesets paint etc...

loadscreens.2da - Only if the individual tilesets you are adding have a package of loadscreens setup.  Lots of folks generate their own for their own PW/Module anyway, but many of the better tileset authors generate some generic loadscreens for their sets.

doortypes.2da - Likely differences in every tileset.  Not always, but most times there are.

genericdoors.2da (only if you are merging different content packages, IE CEP and any one else's generic doors would have to be merged)

From CTP standpoint, there is only ONE tileset that is an override, it is the CTP_Dusty Dungeon, all the rest that we have released will NOT affect ANY area previously created or override anything from Bioware, including textures.  IE, completely safe to add/remove etc.  The only things to check are the 4 files mentioned above, which CTP places into the CTP_Common.hak and CTP_Loadscreens.hak files respectively.

Since CEP has added all the C.R.A.P. tilesets to their releases, you will likely have major edits to merge those 4 files mentioned above though.  Very little work was done by CEP to protect anyone elses works.  Likely you will need to create NEW files and place them into a hak that has highest priority of all haks in the module.

[Jenna WSI]

Thank you, I'll go through everything.

"Search your varaious haks for a doortypes.2da file, likely you will find several and they all have to be merged correctly to allow them to work. This will also mean that you may have to edit the individual tilesets in use to match whatever new numbers you may be forced to use when you adjust the top/overriding/NEW doortypes.2da"

Am I correct in thinking that if I make a master 2da for all of these (loadscreen, doors, etc) and place it as my top hak, that I don't have to remove or edit those same files from every hak in order for it to work right? I'd like to keep the original haks unedited, to save downloads and space for the players.

And does genericdoors.2da need to be merged?

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 14 mars 2011 - 12:45 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Yes, if you add NEW versions of the doortypes, loadscreens etc 2da files and place them in top hak, you won't have to edit the originals... you only need to view the originals while merging them into that top hak.

Generic doors 2da file would only need to be checked/modified if you are using haks that have them included. As I mentioned, CTP kept ours separate. The generic doors are only used when you add the ctp_genericdoors.hak (name not correct) to your mod. Other tileset folks MAY have edited those files though, so it is always best to check each hak you are adding, sort the hak by type (nwhak.exe will quickly do this when you open the hak, just click the type column and it should raise all the 2da entries right to the top for you so you can see what is included in each hak.).

Basically, anytime you add a hak to a mod, you need to check what 2da files are inside that hak, if they exist, you need to compare against any OTHER haks that have 2da's as well. Then merge into a new one when you find differences and place that new 2da into your top hak.

It is not all that hard, but after reading how many haks you have in this mod etc, it will take you some time to check each one and compare for differences in all the 2da's that you find.

Anytime you have TWO or more different versions of a 2da file, you need to compare/merge them into a new one or you will likely break something somewhere.

[Jenna WSI]

Okay, in the process of doing that and I've got a bit of help now. Is there a doortypes.2da for cep? I looked through some of the haks without success in finding it.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

I would hope that their doortypes.2da would be in the haks associated with their tilesets. No clue honestly, I don't use CEP. Too much old stuff weighing it all down, slowing things down, for no gain in game, since that content is seldom if ever used. They claim that they left it in to maintain backwards compatibility but they are not compatible with their own older files so that is not really a good excuse. You can't take a module created with 1.x and replace the 1.x haks with 2.x haks, the mod won't run. So, they should have taken the effort to clean out the trash.

Anyway, looks like the cep2_add_doors, cep2_add_loads, cep2_top_v1 and cep_top_v21 haks all have files you will have to check, if you are using those haks. There are at least two versions of a loadscreens.2da between those files. If you are running older versions of CEP, you will have to check them on your own. I also make no guarantee that I found all the files either.