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[sevenplusone]

I really liked her character, probably my favorite in DA2 and I wish she would've lived until DA3. Maybe a mage will be able to reverse her current status? I dunno, just want her back in DA3 somehow, as a potential companion as well.

She was tough, but rightfully so. With all the blood mages running around, including the First Enchanter which she suspected, you cant afford to let the circle have too much freedom. She had compassion for the mages, but knew what had to be done to keep order until the blood/renegade mage crisis was fixed.Makes me sad that what we found in the deeproads caused her to lose that compassion.

I don't think she lost her sanity per se, at least not like Bartrand. But the lyrium manipulated her strength, making her lose compassion and most of her true self(some of it still remained at the end, and a lot of it did up until the final fight).

[cactusberry]

She wanted to murder all of the mages, you think all of them were blood mages? Are the ones not just bound to be killed for a crime not committed? What about the children, are they just nits growing into lice? I sided with Meredith, even as a mage, but i'm glad she was killed as I didn't agree with many of her proposals.

[Nimander]

She was a psycho. She may have started out good, but as soon as she got that idol, she was gone, IMO. As for all the blood mages, she pretty much -caused- that. They wouldn't've felt the need to go that far down the slippery slope if they weren't seeing their fellows mind-raped and slain and fearing for their own lives.

I'm not saying what they did was -good-, but there's reasons for it. Also note that the city's 'thin' with the Fade. So more mages would be tempted anyway. Her pushing just lit the oil and started a fire.

We also don't know if the deep roads made her lose compassion. Even before that, we heard how the mages were housed, and she was Tranquil'ing mages left and right. Look at Anders' friend, that was pre-Deep Roads, and he wasn't a Blood Mage.

She was paranoid and amoral, though she thought she was being moral. She wasn't in any way a 'good guy'. She wasn't a mustache-twirler, but she was not good.

[sevenplusone]

TheDarkRats wrote...

She wanted to murder all of the mages, you think all of them were blood mages? Are the ones not just bound to be killed for a crime not committed? What about the children, are they just nits growing into lice? I sided with Meredith, even as a mage, but i'm glad she was killed as I didn't agree with many of her proposals.

It was the best course of action, given the terrible situation. There was no possible way to make this situatuation alright, only ways to lessen the damage as much as possible.

[cglasgow]

It's important to remember that there are two Merediths; the hardass knight templar we hear about when we arrive in Kirkwall, and the one who gradually goes more and more insane due to the lyrium idol.

The first one we probably could have dealt with, even if she was still a hardliner, because she was actually right; the First Enchanter was actually a blood mage and harboring same. Hell, he was in friendly correspondence with Quentin, the mad 'researcher' who killed Mama Hawke!

The one from act 2 onwards, especially in act 3, otoh, is as crazy as Bartrand and if she hadn't been stopped, she'd have been 'protecting' a city full of dead bodies, because she'd eventually have purged everyone.

And that's the tragedy.

[LobselVith8]

sevenplusone wrote...

She was tough, but rightfully so. With all the blood mages running around, including the First Enchanter which she suspected, you cant afford to let the circle have too much freedom. 

There's no indication Orsino was a practicing blood mage, though. He clearly knew blood magic, but considering he never used it in combat, he may have simply been aware of it because of Quentin's research, which he himself labels as evil in his final moments. We honestly know too little about him to make any statement in certainty about him.

As for the view on Meredith, having gone through the seven year story arc as an apostate Hawke, let's just say that I had fundamental disagreements with her on the issue of mages. Disagreements that lead me to side with the mages of Kirkwall and keep Anders as a friend and companion.

[Sonris89]

She was strict for sure but she was also possesed by the Lryium artifact. During the fight with her she began to break down and question if she was wrong, and what she had done. I feel bad for her in a sense. Crazy and murderous, but did we ever get to meet the real knight commander? or just the tormented and possessed husk of genocidal rage?

[Camilladilla]

I was ready to give Meredith up for a typically ruthless tyrant driven insane by the magical macguffin, but she redeemed herself as a character for me during the final fight when she starts speaking. It's amusing that with a few well spoken lines towards the end can make me change my opinion of her.

[TexasToast712]

Meredith was a tyrant who needed to be replaced and her ending up with a sword made from that damned deep roads idol changed her from being another crazy Cullen into a crazy ass b*tch. I didnt want to side with the mages or the Templars as I saw the problems on both sides and recognize the value of both, I just wanted to get Meredith replaced and instead I started a world war.

[Nimander]

People are making excuses for her.

Even before she got the idol, she was killing or forcing mages to become Tranquil. She was not and never was a 'good guy'. She may have had reasons, but she was a knight templar (heh), and not a good guy.

[cactusberry]

sevenplusone wrote...

TheDarkRats wrote...

She wanted to murder all of the mages, you think all of them were blood mages? Are the ones not just bound to be killed for a crime not committed? What about the children, are they just nits growing into lice? I sided with Meredith, even as a mage, but i'm glad she was killed as I didn't agree with many of her proposals.

It was the best course of action, given the terrible situation. There was no possible way to make this situatuation alright, only ways to lessen the damage as much as possible.

So if there were 20 people convicted of murder, but you know only 5 were real killers, and you had the decision, the best way would be to have them all slaughtered? There are other ways to deal with blood mages, look at Ferelden's Circle. If Meredith haden't have squeezed the mages this tight, most of them would problably never have gone to blood magic in despiration. Either way, I can't say i'm honestly FOR either side, Orsino or Meredith, because both are wrong. Illegal mages definitely need a way to be confined, but destroying a whole community isn't the way to solve it. This was a hard decision, it was, i'm glad both Orsino and Meredith failed in the end...

[MasterSamson88]

From the moment I met her I knew she was pretty drunk with power.

[Sonris89]

No doubt no doubt. she is a very hatable villain. But the mages are a very powerful very corruptable force as well. She balances out the equation. If the knights were soft on the mages, we would pick templar imprisonment over demonic retaliation anyday.

[Eumerin]

sevenplusone wrote...
There's no indication Orsino was a practicing blood mage, though. He clearly knew blood magic, but considering he never used it in combat, he may have simply been aware of it because of Quentin's research, which he himself labels as evil in his final moments. We honestly know too little about him to make any statement in certainty about him.

Right before his transformation into the flesh golem, Orsino delivers a few quick lines that explain how he learned about flesh golems.  And one of his comments seems to suggest that the only reason he hid the research on flesh golems as opposed to openly filing it in the library was because of Meredith.  I got the distinct impression that had the Knight-Commander not been a constant threat, then he would have been quite happy to research such topics.


As for Meredith, it's unclear exactly where the Knight-Commander ended and the idol's insanity began.  It's true that Ander's friend had been made tranquil, but it's also true that Anders friend had been planning to escape and thus may have brought the punishment down on himself.  We also don't know if Meredith herself was responsible for his being made tranquil.  It's important to remember that Meredith seems to have been unaware of what Alric was up to in the second chapter - the letter you find on his body after saving the mage he intended to make tranquil indicates that Meredith had rejected his plan.  As a result, it's likely that she wasn't responsible for the Tranquil being as widespread as they were.

Modifié par Eumerin, 12 mars 2011 - 07:18 .

[sevenplusone]

TheDarkRats wrote...

sevenplusone wrote...

TheDarkRats wrote...

She wanted to murder all of the mages, you think all of them were blood mages? Are the ones not just bound to be killed for a crime not committed? What about the children, are they just nits growing into lice? I sided with Meredith, even as a mage, but i'm glad she was killed as I didn't agree with many of her proposals.

It was the best course of action, given the terrible situation. There was no possible way to make this situatuation alright, only ways to lessen the damage as much as possible.

So if there were 20 people convicted of murder, but you know only 5 were real killers, and you had the decision, the best way would be to have them all slaughtered? There are other ways to deal with blood mages, look at Ferelden's Circle. If Meredith haden't have squeezed the mages this tight, most of them would problably never have gone to blood magic in despiration. Either way, I can't say i'm honestly FOR either side, Orsino or Meredith, because both are wrong. Illegal mages definitely need a way to be confined, but destroying a whole community isn't the way to solve it. This was a hard decision, it was, i'm glad both Orsino and Meredith failed in the end...

That's a terrible comparison. The Grand Cleric was slain, which gives pretty much anyone a reason to invade unless she was avenged. Which, in the world of DA, would be the slaughter of all mages. Killing Anders wouldn't satisfy anyone who was seeking a reason to invade, especially considering Anders killed more than just the Grand Cleric. It doesn't make what Meredith did right, but if you side with the templars, then it's the best way to avoid the slaughter of more innocents.

And saying the mages "probably" wouldn't have resorted to blood magic if they had a looser noose is just a guess. I would argue that the more freedom you give power, the easier it is to fall to corruption.

[LobselVith8]

Eumerin wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
There's no indication Orsino was a practicing blood mage, though. He clearly knew blood magic, but considering he never used it in combat, he may have simply been aware of it because of Quentin's research, which he himself labels as evil in his final moments. We honestly know too little about him to make any statement in certainty about him.

Right before his transformation into the flesh golem, Orsino delivers a few quick lines that explain how he learned about flesh golems.  And one of his comments seems to suggest that the only reason he hid the research on flesh golems as opposed to openly filing it in the library was because of Meredith. 

He said Quentin's research was evil. I don't see how that implies he would be exploring it if not for the Knight-Commander.

[Denizen89]

That Knight Commander was a nut that needed to be put down. Neither side was correct but She still brought it down on her and everyone else. I did not agree with Anders for blowing up the Chantry, but it did force the issue to come to a head and it needed to before it got worse. Meredith in Act 2 seemed not to know what was going with people under her command which made her even less sympathetic. Glad I put her out of her misery. Though the first enchanter was a dumb fool.

[cglasgow]

Remember where you've heard the name 'Quentin' before?

Quentin is the same psychopath that kills Mama Hawke. Orsino knew this guy was out there and what he was doing (you find correspondence signed 'O' among Quentin's personal effects), and told no one.

So yeah, the real reason the Kirkwall situation is hopeless is that there's a lunatic on every side, pushing things to the breaking point. The Circle is being misled because First Enchanter is a secret blood mage sympathizer, the templars are being turned into an army of murderers because Meredith's been driven insane, and the apostates are being dragged in by a crazy possessed guy. The only reasonable person in the entire mess is the Grand Cleric, and that's exactly who Anders blows up.

[MacNille]

She was a crazy ****.

[blueTrance]

She needed to be more present throughout the story, as did that idol. It felt like she just kind of springs up at the end and yells FEEL THE WRATH OF MY EVIL LYRIUM CRAZY SWORD. Honestly, the most disappointing part is that she really had the potential to be a powerful shadowy figure interacting with your character throughout the story, but instead just just shows up towards the end like she was always there.

My favorite part of the game (other than the combat) was the sense of growth you get towards your main character and your party over the course of the game. Varric actually feels like a solid, full-fledged bro by the end of the game. The problem was that growth just didn't seem to extend much to the rest of the narrative. 

Modifié par blueTrance, 12 mars 2011 - 08:35 .

[HawXV2]

I thought BioWare did the crazy trick really well. It's hard to pull off a cliche and have it be believable, but Meredith was done nicely.

Modifié par HawXV2, 12 mars 2011 - 08:39 .

[Kinkaku]

Was defiantly not expecting the idol to be anything more then a side issue but yeah she went bat sh*t crazy.
But then again she was a bit nuts and power hungry to begin with:wizard:

Modifié par Kinkaku, 12 mars 2011 - 08:47 .

[MKDAWUSS]

She was poorly developed, and by the time she starts to develop, things have gone to a boil and she's fit the mold of Satuday Morning Cartoon Villain.

[Amondra]

I guess I love happy endings and really wanted one to be the "good" guys. I thought that to be the mages, I kept Anders(I was going to kick his ass all the way back to my mage warden). But when the First Enchanter went all blood mage on me I was like "Well there goes that..."

I feel the Chantry despite how sad it was, was a symbol of sorts of how the Chantry as a whole has gone to far, from how they treat mages, to how they view those outside the faith like the Dalish. It was a matter of time before someone did something that extreme

[Vic George 2011]

Her death should have been played out like this!
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Vic George 2011, 04 mai 2011 - 12:49 .