83 réponses à ce sujet

[MyKingdomCold]

not really sure what to think of her. It would've been better if we saw more of her and Orsino before Act 3. maybe a little more background and story

Oh, and seem to recall that she helps Gascard DuPuis by reprimanding Emeric for investigating him. did she know that he was a blood mage? if so, did she ignore it?

[Xilizhra]

Those who say that Meredith was driven mad by her sword in Act 3 are giving her too much credit. She doesn't seem at all different from what she was in the previous two acts. I believe she only went totally nuts at the very end, when she started drawing upon the sword's power; note that its "song" could only be heard by dwarves naturally, and it must have taken a lot of effort on Meredith's part to take that much power into herself.

Interesting to note: Meredith believed wholeheartedly that she was calling upon the Maker's power with her sword... I wonder whom or what she was actually speaking to? Or calling upon?

[LobselVith8]

soulrapist wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Not every mage turns into an abomination - we see plenty of mages getting cut down by templars without turning to dealing with demons (which includes Bethany if Meredith stabs her in the back), and we know that in Kirkwall that abominations can even be summoned by the possessed, as "Enemies Among Us" showed (which is possibly a result of the "Band of Three").

the way i see it is that mage should show how strong they are supposed to be and responsable they should be by teaching what self-respect is and how to die with your pride and honor uncorrupted

We do see that. Emile is willing to die at Hawke's hands, Ella never succumbs to making deals with demons even though she's a child who is being threatened with tranquility and rape, Alain never makes a deal with a demon even though he's getting raped by templars, and Bethany is resilent even if Hawke supports the mass murder of the mages and allows Meredith to stab his little sister in the back.

soulrapist wrote...

that is what the circle should teach but they dont show anything else then selfpity and pathetic excuse to give in to demon offer in the name of freedom

You seem to be blaming the entire population of the Circle of Kirkwall for the actions of criminal mages who are outside of the Gallows, many of whom have no known affiliation with the Circle of Kirkwall.

soulrapist wrote...

even meridith familly was murder by her own sister

While Anders had to kill Karl because he had his humanity illegally stripped from him on Ser Alrik's orders and the entire Circle of Kirkwall is condemned to genocide because Meredith is condemning them for the actions of an apostate.

soulrapist wrote...

why simply because of that self-respect im talking about.  even the templar should help mage reach that self-respect and work with them to kill any goddamm mage who dare use blood magic why?

Not every mage uses blood magic, but considering that templars can nullify normal magic, I can see why some mages turn to blood magic when it means the difference between their execution and their survival.

soulrapist wrote...

simply because the act of taking the life of someone to replenish yours is right there an act of dishonor and disrespect of one-self that single act show how selfish a mage can be and why i say kill every blood mage on sight they do not deserved a trial a plain and simple

Does that include the Grey Wardens, who are created through the means of blood magic (The Joining) or the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic against the darkspawn?

soulrapist wrote...

execution that goes for merill and anders who both chooses to give in weekness and say its for the good of my people or a willing host for a spirit is better!!

Merrill isn't Andrastian, she's Dalish and she's using old magic - she doesn't have to conform to Andrastian views when her very existance is illegal, according to Chantry law.

soulrapist wrote...

if i had the luxury to kill both or the choice to kill them i would without hesitation right there. there pathetic excuse do not find me at all.

What's pathetic about not wanting to live a life of subjugation?

[Plaintiff]

Meredith is Loghain with ******. Paranoid, unstable, and willing to commit/overlook heinous crimes in order to do her twisted version of "what's right for everyone".

"Bloodmages! Bloodmages everywhere!" She screams, despite never having any evidence and repeatedly punishing people who are innocent. Meanwhile, the individuals who do use blood magic and do want to destroy the Circle operate freely all over Kirkwall because Meredith is too busy looking for abominations under her bed.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...
Interesting to note: Meredith believed wholeheartedly that she was calling upon the Maker's power with her sword... I wonder whom or what she was actually speaking to? Or calling upon?

That brings up an interesting point.  I saw someone on Youtube point out that Meredith calls to the Maker right before she gets petrified.  What if her petrification was actually the Maker's answer?  Be an interesting development.

[Xilizhra]

Was she actually transformed into lyrium herself, or just stone?

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

Was she actually transformed into lyrium herself, or just stone?

It's anyone's guess. I'd wager that since the lyrium idol exploded and altered her, she seems to be encased in lyrium.

[Rifneno]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Was she actually transformed into lyrium herself, or just stone?

It's anyone's guess. I'd wager that since the lyrium idol exploded and altered her, she seems to be encased in lyrium.

Aye.  No one's sure what happened, but I think it's a safe bet that there'll be an increasing number of mysterious chips out of her until they move her away from the templar compound.

[Swiff-Epics]

Hopefully im not the only one who thought Meredith was hot??

[Pandaman102]

Xilizhra wrote...

Was she actually transformed into lyrium herself, or just stone?

That's a disturbing thought: if lyrium can transmute people into more lyrium, does that mean some portion of the lyrium supply is made... from people? And that the Templars have potentially been eating people?

Good lord, lyrium is the new soylent green.

[GavrielKay]

soulrapist wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

soulrapist wrote...

the way i see it is that mage should show how strong they are supposed to be and responsable they should be by teaching what self-respect is and how to die with your pride and honor uncorrupted that is what the circle should teach but they dont show anything else then selfpity and pathetic excuse to give in to demon offer in the name of freedom

You seriously expect mages to learn self respect in this environment?  If someone suddenly decided your Hawke was a danger to society would you kneel and offer your neck? 

Freedom is one of the most powerful motivators around, for anyone. 

Avoiding rape and torture isn't a "pathetic excuse."  That sounds incredibly heartless.

yes i would offer my neck if the choices were available i even give the town to the qunari since that city is behond redemtion. all i have seen in this city is corruption even merill make a perfect example by choosing blood magic while she is free in the dalish this is why i say that the best option is still self respect and take an honorable death at least you choose how you die .

You're awfully free with claiming mages/cities are beyond redemption.  How do you get to a place where you can't understand the instinct for self preservation?  There's no honor in dying because someone else can't be bothered to notice that you're innocent.

[SkittlesKat96]

 She cared a lot about Kirkwall and held a grudge against the mages but she also didn't realize that it was her fault things got so bad and she didn't even think about compromise, I think she truly hated mages and only really barely tolerated them, it wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't for the idol though, the idol completely ruined her and made her insane.

I'm wondering if there will be an expansion where she gets revived...cause her lyrium body thing was kind of still there and stuff...maybe there is something involved with demons and spirits and the fade or something?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

We don't really get to know her in Act 1 so we can't say exactly how she was before and after the Idol affected her. Cullen says that Meredith has become more reclusive and paranoid at the beginning of Act 2. He even says "I almost wonder if something has happened" which seemed like a flat out reference to buying the Idol from Bartrand when hearing that from my second run. We hear things about her that seem to match up with parts of what we see later but we never got to see her in an extended scenes before Act 2.

[HTTP 404]

I think bioware failed at making her more human versus just plain crazy.

[Killer3000ad]

I think she needed more build up and an earlier reveal for her to be a better villain. I also didn't know about her backstory till I read it on the dragonage wikia. Design wise she was good, a mature, grizzled veteran with signs that had she had a better upbringing that didn't involve an abomination killing her family, she'd might have been a beautiful woman. However she's really quite wasted in DA2, and her sudden flip to insanity at the end is just jarring and as i said, SUDDEN. Yet another sign of what DA2 could have been but failed.

[TEWR]

she makes a cameo in Act 1, a cameo in act 2, and doesn't get enough screen time in Act 3 because the main plotline consists of 3 main quests. She had a lot of potential, and maybe some DLC could help to make both her and Orsino better characters. You know, giving us a few more main quests in Act 3 before The Last Straw (or "side" quests that deal with them if it's impossible to add in main quests before TLS.


Also, she's bat**** insane and I can never side with her. The sad part is that in the final battle she begins to doubt herself asking if what she's doing is madness. Then she quickly says it isn't.

[Master Shiori]

LobselVith8 wrote...

 Alain never makes a deal with a demon even though he's getting raped by templars

I never got the reference that he was abused by templars in any way, much less raped. And he becomes a blood mage even after going on how blood magic is "pure evil".

Not the best example.

LobselVith8 wrote...


You seem to be blaming the entire population of the Circle of Kirkwall for the actions of criminal mages who are outside of the Gallows, many of whom have no known affiliation with the Circle of Kirkwall.

Just as you and others are blaming the entire templar order for actions of a few templars like Alrik, Karras or Mettin.
And you have no proof that those mages outside the Gallows were not part of the Circle at some point.

LobselVith8 wrote...



Not every mage uses blood magic, but considering that templars can nullify normal magic, I can see why some mages turn to blood magic when it means the difference between their execution and their survival.

So they prove that templars are right in the end? Good for them.

And I'd hardly call that "some", since you can't swing a dead cat in Kirkwall without hitting a blood mage, an abomination or a demon.

LobselVith8 wrote...



Does that include the Grey Wardens, who are created through the means of blood magic (The Joining) or the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic against the darkspawn?

Grey Wardens are not required to abide by the Chantry rules. But given what Avernus did in Warden's Keep I'd say their blood mages are hardly innocent.

LobselVith8 wrote...



Merrill isn't Andrastian, she's Dalish and she's using old magic - she doesn't have to conform to Andrastian views when her very existance is illegal, according to Chantry law.

If she's with the Dalish than no. But she's in Kirkwall where Chantry makes the rules.
Discussing Merrill here is pointless since she's protected by her friendship with Hawke anyway, just as Anders is.

I'll just add that Merrill never used her blood magic to harm others or used the blood of someone else to power her spells. Still, blood mages like her are an exception rather than a rule.

LobselVith8 wrote...



What's pathetic about not wanting to live a life of subjugation?

The fact that you clamour for freedom while ignoring your own responsibility. As long as people like Quentin, Danarius or Tarohne exist you can't just let all mages loose in the world without someone to watch them.

That doesn't mean that responsible mages like Bethany, Hawke or Ella need to suffer either.

[soulrapist]

thank you master shiori for those good and clear evidence you bring to lobselVith8 its most welcome .

[Rifneno]

Master Shiori wrote...

I never got the reference that he was abused by templars in any way, much less raped. And he becomes a blood mage even after going on how blood magic is "pure evil".

There's two references.  If Karras isn't killed in Act I, then there's a dialogue with Alain in Act II about how Karras "comes to his room at night" and threatens to make him tranquil if he talks (but apparently he can talk to Hawke? I donno).  Second, if you take the diplomatic dialogue option with him Best Served Cold he says he joined the rebellion because of what the templars 'make him do,' with a rather distant tone as he stares at the ground.

Not the best example.

He's an EXCELLENT example.  Here's a kid who wanted nothing to do with blood magic but eventually resorts to it because after the better part of the decade he's sick of being abused on multiple fronts.  Last I checked, "I'm sick of being raped" was a pretty damn good excuse.  The templars are DIRECTLY responsible for this kid turning bad.

Just as you and others are blaming the entire templar order for actions of a few templars like Alrik, Karras or Mettin.

Every single templar that didn't desert after Meredith called for the RoA deserves death.  Every last one.

And you have no proof that those mages outside the Gallows were not part of the Circle at some point.

Proof by lack of evidence is not proof.

And I'd hardly call that "some", since you can't swing a dead cat in Kirkwall without hitting a blood mage, an abomination or a demon.

Only a few sentences ago you were ****ing about people painting all the templars bad because of the few Hawke encounters, now you're doing the same thing to the mages.  Does the word "hypocrisy" mean anything to you?

Grey Wardens are not required to abide by the Chantry rules. But given what Avernus did in Warden's Keep I'd say their blood mages are hardly innocent.

Awesome, now you're judging the Grey Warden mages by ONE of them.  Tell me again how we're bad for judging the entire templar order.  Just for the lulz, go ahead.

The fact that you clamour for freedom while ignoring your own responsibility. As long as people like Quentin, Danarius or Tarohne exist you can't just let all mages loose in the world without someone to watch them.

And as long as the mage police are a bunch of religious nuts who don't even answer to the king himself, they aren't any better.

[Master Shiori]

Rifneno wrote...



There's two references.  If Karras isn't killed in Act I, then there's a dialogue with Alain in Act II about how Karras "comes to his room at night" and threatens to make him tranquil if he talks (but apparently he can talk to Hawke? I donno).  Second, if you take the diplomatic dialogue option with him Best Served Cold he says he joined the rebellion because of what the templars 'make him do,' with a rather distant tone as he stares at the ground.

I don't play a diplomatic character so I missed the both references. That's still him being abused by Karras not every single templar in the order.

Rifneno wrote...


He's an EXCELLENT example.  Here's a kid who wanted nothing to do with blood magic but eventually resorts to it because after the better part of the decade he's sick of being abused on multiple fronts.  Last I checked, "I'm sick of being raped" was a pretty damn good excuse.  The templars are DIRECTLY responsible for this kid turning bad.

You want a better example? Try Ella.

Rifneno wrote...


Every single templar that didn't desert after Meredith called for the RoA deserves death.  Every last one.

Same could be said of every Starkhaven mage who didn't desert Decimus when he started raising the dead. Or of every Circle mage who didn't surrender when their fellows started using blood magic or summoning demons.

I, however, actually spared those who did surrender, as well as every survivor in Thrask's group of rebels.

Rifneno wrote...



Proof by lack of evidence is not proof.

There is no proof that they never were in the Circle either.

Rifneno wrote...



Only a few sentences ago you were ****ing about people painting all the templars bad because of the few Hawke encounters, now you're doing the same thing to the mages.  Does the word "hypocrisy" mean anything to you?

Language son. I'm fine about arguing with you, but we'll either do it in a civilized fashion or not at all. 

I'm never said that all Circle mages or mages in general were corrupt or deserving of death. I pointed out that there are plenty of those who are, as evidenced by blood mages and abominations all around Kirkwall.

Rifneno wrote...


Awesome, now you're judging the Grey Warden mages by ONE of them.  Tell me again how we're bad for judging the entire templar order.  Just for the lulz, go ahead.

Wardens are responsible to stop Avernus from summoning demons or using people as lab rats in his experiments. They failed to do it. While that doesn't make all Warden mages criminals, it does make Sophia Dryden responsible, since she was the commander who allowed for it to happen.

In the same way, Merredith and Cullen are responsible for what Karras, Alrik or Mettin did to mages, even if they took no active part in their atrocities. That doesn't mean every templar should be executed for the actions of a few.

And Orsino is guilty of allowing blood mages to take hold in the Gallows and for covering and aiding Quentin's sick research. That doesn't mean that every mage in the Circle needs to pay for it.

Rifneno wrote...



And as long as the mage police are a bunch of religious nuts who don't even answer to the king himself, they aren't any better.

That they are a religious force makes no difference. Secular forces could easily commit those same atrocities against mages. 

The fact that they're not held accountable for their transgressions is the issue, not the fact that such a policing force exists.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 06 mai 2011 - 01:35 .

[Rifneno]

Master Shiori wrote...

I don't play a diplomatic character so I missed the both references. That's still him being abused by Karras not every single templar in the order.

The line in Best Served Cold still appears even if you kill every templar you possibly can, including Karras and Alrik.  Believe me, I do, every single playthrough.  So no, it's not just Karras.

Same could be said of every Starkhaven mage who didn't desert Decimus when he started raising the dead. Or of every Circle mage who didn't surrender when their fellows started using blood magic or summoning demons.

I, however, actually spared those who did surrender, as well as every survivor in Thrask's group of rebels.

Decimus, as bad as he was, wasn't trying to commit genocide.  Fighting for your freedom is a far cry from wholesale slaughter of a minority right down to defenseless children.

There is no proof that they never were in the Circle either.

I... oh screw it.  Hail, Google.  http://www.nizkor.or...n-of-proof.html

Language son. I'm fine about arguing with you, but we'll either do it in a civilized fashion or not at all. 

I'm never said that all Circle mages or mages in general were corrupt or deserving of death. I pointed out that there are plenty of those who are, as evidenced by blood mages and abominations all around Kirkwall.

So a civilized tone is to use condescending terms like "son?"

Almost all the mages Hawke encounters in Kirkwall are rebels to some degree.  The mages that are law-abiding are in the Gallows, not trying to find a way to escape.  You're judging the mages of Kirkwall by the apostates of Kirkwall.  Even that's sketchy, really.  Hawke encounters more dragons than farmers, more gang members than.. well, any other profession really.

Wardens are responsible to stop Avernus from summoning demons or using people as lab rats in his experiments. They failed to do it. While that doesn't make all Warden mages criminals, it does make Sophia Dryden responsible, since she was the commander who allowed for it to happen.

Using people as lab rats was bad, but I'm not so sure about the demon summoning on the sole reason that he was doing it in a fairly controlled setting.  They were nowhere near civilians, and even getting out of the area requires navigating a complex maze of tunnels.  Perhaps most importantly, the place was under seige by the army of a murdering tyrant of a king.  The demons had virtually no chance of escaping to cause innocent deaths, it just meant more of the tyrant's men would die.  Avernus also seemed to have some wards on the place since the demon that possessed Sophia's corpse was unable to leave after hundreds of years.  Regardless, Avernus and the rest of those Wardens were in direct violation of Warden policy simply because they WERE fighting the king's men.  Evil tyrants need to die, but the Grey Wardens need to be able to fight a blight whereever it may occur, and that means not alienating a throne.

That they are a religious force makes no difference. Secular forces could easily commit those same atrocities against mages.

Not much of a history buff I take it?  Secular forces could indeed have committed the same crimes, but a religious organization with a vast military never ends well.  The fact that the Chantry's armed forces are named after the religious warriors responsible for the crusades isn't exactly a subtle hint that maybe this setup is a bad idea.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Templars weren't responsible for the Crusades in our world...

[blothulfur]

Thoughts on Meredith, hmmm I definitely would.

[Master Shiori]

Rifneno wrote...

Decimus, as bad as he was, wasn't trying to commit genocide.  Fighting for your freedom is a far cry from wholesale slaughter of a minority right down to defenseless children.

Alain said Decimus probably started the fire in Starkhaven Circle. Also, being a blood mage doesn't score you any points, especially after you turn your skeletons against random people. 

I have sympathy for Alain, Terrie and other mages from Starkhaven, but none whatsoever for Decimus or Grace.

Rifneno wrote...



I... oh screw it.  

Language.

Rifneno wrote...



So a civilized tone is to use condescending terms like "son?"

Then don't act in a manner that is deserving of such a term. You'll notice that I don't resort to swearing in order to get my point across. 

Rifneno wrote...



Almost all the mages Hawke encounters in Kirkwall are rebels to some degree.  The mages that are law-abiding are in the Gallows, not trying to find a way to escape.  You're judging the mages of Kirkwall by the apostates of Kirkwall.  Even that's sketchy, really.  Hawke encounters more dragons than farmers, more gang members than.. well, any other profession really.

Oh, I'm fine with them being rebels. Hawke himself can be called a rebel for not being part of the Circle, yet he doesn't abuse his power or brings harm to others. Heck, Hawke's father escaped from the Circle and he was hardly a dangerous criminal.

My poblem is that mages routinely flee the Circle as Anders and Thrask tell you. Some, like Ella, try to live normal lives. Others resort to blood magic or traffic with demons out of desire for power or revenge. 
Huon escapes the Circle and then kills his own wife to power his magic. Evelina escapes and becomes possessed. Quentin conducts mad research and the First Enchanter not only hides that but also aids him by giving him books on forbidden lore. Decimus and Grace resort to blood magic without a second thought. There's an entire gang roaming Hightown that is led by blood mages.

Sure, it's an unusual circumstance made so for the purpose of getting the message that mages are dangerous across, yet the same is true of templars in Kirkwall who commit every abuse imaginable. 

To me that doesn't help the case for making all mages free. Some of them? Sure. But not all.

Rifneno wrote...

 

Not much of a history buff I take it?  Secular forces could indeed have committed the same crimes, but a religious organization with a vast military never ends well.  The fact that the Chantry's armed forces are named after the religious warriors responsible for the crusades isn't exactly a subtle hint that maybe this setup is a bad idea.

It's also a bad idea to use real world events and organization as comparrison for fantasy ones, because despite similarities they're never the same nor can you predict what the fantasy version will do.
For one, there is no organised source of lore in Thedas outside the Chantry's own historians, and those portray events as seen from their perspective. That hardly makes their views unbiased.
Same can be said of Dalish history as told by their storytellers or of Tevinter historical accounts.

Therefore, your use of Exalted Marches against the Elves (at least that's the one I'm assuming you meant, rather than Andraste's March against Tevinter or Chantry Marches against Qunari) isn't going to help much since there are only versions of it as told by those who were involved. Again hardly an unbiased source of information.
I will say that the general treatment of Elves in human society is bad. 

[LobselVith8]

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Alain never makes a deal with a demon even though he's getting raped by templars [/quote]

I never got the reference that he was abused by templars in any way, much less raped. And he becomes a blood mage even after going on how blood magic is "pure evil".

Not the best example. [/quote]

Alain makes the comment in Act II. He implies this as the reason he sided with Ser Thrask in "Best Served Cold" as well. Blood magic isn't evil - the Grey Wardens create more Grey Wardens through The Joining Ritual and the order saves the world from the darkspawn by ending the Blights and destroying their souls to end the reign of the Archdemons. Also, the Warden mages who use blood magic to stop the darkspawn are using the craft for the benefit of Thedas.

While Alain sees blood magic as vile in Act I, after years of abuse and rape, he turned to it. My point stands that he didn't make a deal with a demon and become an abomination. There's nothing wrong with the example when I'm addressing mages who haven't become abominations.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

You seem to be blaming the entire population of the Circle of Kirkwall for the actions of criminal mages who are outside of the Gallows, many of whom have no known affiliation with the Circle of Kirkwall. [/quote]

Just as you and others are blaming the entire templar order for actions of a few templars like Alrik, Karras or Mettin.
And you have no proof that those mages outside the Gallows were not part of the Circle at some point. [/quote]

I've addressed, time and time again, that there are good templars, that not all templars are like Ser Alrik or Ser Kerras, and that I saw good templars like Ser Bryant, Ser Otto, and Knight-Commander Greagoir. What I have done is openly disagreed with the Chantry controlled Circles, which have lead to an open rebellion across the continent of Thedas.

Also, you have no proof the apostates and abominations have any connection to the Circle of Kirkwall. What I've said, repeatedly, is that we have little information about the Circle mages because our exposure to them is so limited, and we can't praise them or condemn them given our ignorance. What I've added time and again is that the Circle mages are innocent of Anders' destruction of the Kirkwall Chantry, which is the reason Meredith gives for invoking the Right of Annulment.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Not every mage uses blood magic, but considering that templars can nullify normal magic, I can see why some mages turn to blood magic when it means the difference between their execution and their survival. [/quote]

So they prove that templars are right in the end? Good for them. [/quote]

I suppose they find it better than getting raped and killed by templars like Ser Kerras and Ser Alrik. We saw what nearly happened to the child Ella who didn't know blood magic, after all.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

And I'd hardly call that "some", since you can't swing a dead cat in Kirkwall without hitting a blood mage, an abomination or a demon. [/quote]

Mage antagonists =/= all mages. That's like saying all dwarves are members of the carta because of the "waves" of carta members we face.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Does that include the Grey Wardens, who are created through the means of blood magic (The Joining) or the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic against the darkspawn? [/quote]

Grey Wardens are not required to abide by the Chantry rules. But given what Avernus did in Warden's Keep I'd say their blood mages are hardly innocent. [/quote]

That doesn't make them evil when their task is protecting all sentient races from oblivion at the hands of the darkspawn armies that seek to eat them alive and violate their women. Avernus' research could provide a means to ending the greatest threat humanity has ever faced in Thedas - if it means an end to the darkspawn, the Wardens do whatever is necessary.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill isn't Andrastian, she's Dalish and she's using old magic - she doesn't have to conform to Andrastian views when her very existance is illegal, according to Chantry law. [/quote]

If she's with the Dalish than no. But she's in Kirkwall where Chantry makes the rules. [/quote]

Is she supposed to hand herself over and let the templars' swords of mercy kill her then? I disagree. The Chantry has a dictatorship over the mages of the Andrastian nations.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

Discussing Merrill here is pointless since she's protected by her friendship with Hawke anyway, just as Anders is.

I'll just add that Merrill never used her blood magic to harm others or used the blood of someone else to power her spells. Still, blood mages like her are an exception rather than a rule. [/quote]

You seem to be excluding the Grey Warden mages who are using their abilities for the benefit of mankind, the blood mage Jowan who can become Master Levyn and protect the refugees from the darkspawn, the Hero of Ferelden from the Circle of Ferelden who can use blood magic, and even an apostate Hawke. You don't have sufficient information to make any such claim that blood mages like Merrill are the exception. What we know is that blood magic isn't evil - it's application can be used for malevolant purposes, but so can a sword or a position of authority, and it's responsible for giving all sentient races a means to protect themselves against the true fulcrum of evil - the darkspawn.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

What's pathetic about not wanting to live a life of subjugation?[/quote]

The fact that you clamour for freedom while ignoring your own responsibility. As long as people like Quentin, Danarius or Tarohne exist you can't just let all mages loose in the world without someone to watch them.

That doesn't mean that responsible mages like Bethany, Hawke or Ella need to suffer either. [/quote]

No one is arguing for lawless freedom - people are arguing against forcing mages to live under oppression and a dictatorship mandated by a religious institution that preaches how mages are responsible for their version of original sin and condemn them all as cursed.

I see no reason to force all mages to live under a dictatorship that treats them all as "cursed" instead of letting giving them the same freedoms as everyone else. The Chantry controlled Circles are system that has lead to a continential revolt because of the abuses that took place, and it's gotten Thedas to the brink of war.