32 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Posmerga wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

She was unfamiliar with human culture because it was completely alien to her, but she knew the risks involved with the demon, and wanted to make the attempt because she felt it was worth it if it would allow her to reclaim a part of her people's history.

So baisically she's Branka, they both want to reaquire some part of their people's history and are perfectly fine with paying any price, would love to see how people would feel about Merrill if she willingly tried to sacrifice Hawke and the others...oooooh wait she was willing .

That's not even a fair comparison. Paragon Branka wanted to reclaim the Anvil because her people are dying and a kingdom that spanned the continent of Thedas has been reduced to two Great Thaigs that will likely be lost in a matter of time without something to stop the darkspawn, and she sacrificed the members of her House to achieve her ends. In comparison, Merrill is putting her own life at risk to gain the lost knowledge of her people, and asks Hawke to kill her if she becomes an abomination. She's putting her life on the line, she's not sacrificing anyone else.

[Posmerga]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Posmerga wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

She was unfamiliar with human culture because it was completely alien to her, but she knew the risks involved with the demon, and wanted to make the attempt because she felt it was worth it if it would allow her to reclaim a part of her people's history.

So baisically she's Branka, they both want to reaquire some part of their people's history and are perfectly fine with paying any price, would love to see how people would feel about Merrill if she willingly tried to sacrifice Hawke and the others...oooooh wait she was willing .

That's not even a fair comparison. Paragon Branka wanted to reclaim the Anvil because her people are dying and a kingdom that spanned the continent of Thedas has been reduced to two Great Thaigs that will likely be lost in a matter of time without something to stop the darkspawn, and she sacrificed the members of her House to achieve her ends. In comparison, Merrill is putting her own life at risk to gain the lost knowledge of her people, and asks Hawke to kill her if she becomes an abomination. She's putting her life on the line, she's not sacrificing anyone else.

Personally I do see it as a fair comparison because They are both risking their lives and more for what they want; last time I checked going through the deep roads alone or with other is a huge risk, and just like the Dawrfs the elves are dying but instead of a reduction in their numbers its "cultural" death, they've lost so much heck if you play witch hunt you even find out that Keeper merathari doesn't even know the ancient elven word for mirror and she's the keeper! Its her job to know such things. So while Branka, sacrifices her loved ones to get what she's after, Merrill decieds to make deals with demons, which at the moment are only a danger to her person, but in the future she could become an abmonation or be convinced to sacrifice others by the demon she is dealing with, just like what happened when you took her with you to the fade.

If you don't see it that way that is really up to you, but I am calling it Merrill is Branka 2.0, new and improved .

[LordHelfort]

I dont think Merrills anything like a Branka, she intends to put herself at risk and she wont throw away anyone elses life, or wants to. Admittedly her actions are stupid, I mean she must have heard this sort of story before.

Yet at the same time its understandable and the comparison isnt very effective. The dwarves maintain some autonomy and retain a portion of their old Kingdom. Elves meanwhile are either hiding from the rest of the world because theyre constantly harassed, attacked, enslaved, treated as second class citizens etc. I think one is a more desperate situation, and desperate times call for desperate measures. I dont think Merrills actions are any more 'wrong' than the Elves you see siding with the Qunari in their siege of the city.

When you push people to the edge, or a race as a collective, you have to expect them to go this far, its actually logical.

[LobselVith8]

Posmerga wrote...

Personally I do see it as a fair comparison because They are both risking their lives and more for what they want; last time I checked going through the deep roads alone or with other is a huge risk, and just like the Dawrfs the elves are dying but instead of a reduction in their numbers its "cultural" death

It's not a fair comparison when you're comparing someone who sacrificed others with someone who is willing only to sacrifice herself, and to ask a close friend to kill her if she loses a battle of wills against the demon. It's also a reduction in numbers, if you remember Velanna's conversation with Oghren in Awakening.

Posmerga wrote...

they've lost so much heck if you play witch hunt you even find out that Keeper merathari doesn't even know the ancient elven word for mirror and she's the keeper!

They address that the Circle (i.e. the Chantry that controls the Circles) took much of their knowledge, which is why the Circle mages would know things that the Dalish wouldn't.

Posmerga wrote...

Its her job to know such things. So while Branka, sacrifices her loved ones to get what she's after, Merrill decieds to make deals with demons,

One particular demon who is trapped in an idol, and in conversation with Anders she knows the risks involved.

Posmerga wrote...

which at the moment are only a danger to her person, but in the future she could become an abmonation or be convinced to sacrifice others by the demon she is dealing with, just like what happened when you took her with you to the fade.

Not when she asks Hawke to kill her if it she's possessed - that's why she asked him to come along in the first place.

Posmerga wrote...

If you don't see it that way that is really up to you, but I am calling it Merrill is Branka 2.0, new and improved .

You're welcome to think the moon is made out of cheese, but I simply don't think your assessment lines up with the facts, that's all.

[Posmerga]

I still think its pretty close as far as comparisons go, maybe not in the same degree yet, but come on if someone knows the risks, that makes anything okay? So if someone knew the risks of murdering people with no good reason, then he shouldn't be blamed? Also last time I checked Merrill isn't exactly one of the wisest characters you meet, she is quite naieve and at times borderline ignorant, if you ever had to trust someone when it comes to dealing with demons I am sure no one would leave up to her.

Also judging from your reply I am guessing you never took her with you to the fade when you helped that half elf mage, really interesting situation between her and a pride demon there, and that particular situation proves that given the right promise of reward she would sell off hawke and his entire crew.

[LobselVith8]

Posmerga wrote...

I still think its pretty close as far as comparisons go, maybe not in the same degree yet, but come on if someone knows the risks, that makes anything okay? So if someone knew the risks of murdering people with no good reason, then he shouldn't be blamed? Also last time I checked Merrill isn't exactly one of the wisest characters you meet, she is quite naieve and at times borderline ignorant, if you ever had to trust someone when it comes to dealing with demons I am sure no one would leave up to her.

Wanting to restore a piece of your people's history when virtually all of it has been lost to slavery and oppression doesn't make her the same as Branka, who was trying to save her people from annihilation and lost her sanity in the process. The golems beat back the first Archdemon Dumat and gave the dwarves a hundred years of peace, while Merrill was trying to uncover the clandestine knowledge of the Eluvian that killed two of her friends. Merrill is willing to put her life and soul on the line, even asking Hawke to kill her if she becomes an abomination, and that makes her irrevocably different from Branka.

Posmerga wrote...

Also judging from your reply I am guessing you never took her with you to the fade when you helped that half elf mage, really interesting situation between her and a pride demon there, and that particular situation proves that given the right promise of reward she would sell off hawke and his entire crew.

She addresses that the demon was controlling her after that happened, if you recall.

[Posmerga]

LobselVith8 wrote...



She addresses that the demon was controlling her after that happened, if you recall.

Oh I do, and she just said that what he said(pride demon) was pulling at her heart, could be mind control, could be not, if the demon was capable of such things why not turn the whole party against Hawke or someone beside Merrill? Heck why not control Hawke himself, the desire to sacrifice anything for what she desired was there, thats why the demon was able to entice her, biggest piece of evidence? Take someone else to that fight, no one will turn on you except her.

Modifié par Posmerga, 12 mars 2011 - 08:40 .

[cglasgow]

Sure, Merrill's the only one who succumbs to Pride... but take Isabela to fight the Desire demon and the same thing happens.

For that matter, I think the only companion who is impossible to tempt in some way in the Fade sidequest is Anders, and that's because he's already an abomination.