24 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarevok Anchev]

What is your oppinion on the new strategy of enemy "Assassin-classes"?
This guys behave like the Dwarven Boss Branka in DA:O  :

Stealth > Backstab > Stealth > Backstab etc etc

I think the idea of different enemy classes = different fighting tactics,
but this Backstabbers are really annoying.

Whilst you fight against the mass of pawns, the leader and maybe even a Mage (who will make himself invulnerable; also very annoying)
this guy disappears and in most cases will he backstab either a Mage/Archer (because they arent in the pulk), or one of your hurt Melees.

And you CANT do ANYTHING against that besides killing them!!!

I tried Fireballs at their last location and other stuff, either they succeed all saves always, or they do not really use the skill, but are somehow scripted.


imo: for Casual gaming it seems nice, but when playing Hard/Nightmare it is too annoying to have enemys, who can kill you without you being able to kill them first.

Update: I made a Poll in my profile for this; check it out and vote

[reddragon567]

The problem is the HP on these guys. I don't mind that they can kill you. But when you unload all your skills on them then they POOF and take a potion. Something is wrong. Best you can do is a Cross class combo before they stealth. Or kill everything else in the area asap so they can't stealth any more.

[tactius]

Try a cross class combo, or at least keep them stunlocked for the beginning of the fight while you take out the other enemies in the area. I agree that these things are challenging, but it's not like you can do absolutely nothing. Try to threatswitch it to your tank as well. Also, i've saved myself a few times by summoning my mabari, which can act as a tank for a about half a minute lol.

[October Sixth]

Assassins can be CC'd temporarily, not to keep them out of the battle but to keep them stationary while you kill them. It's not an elegant solution but it works.

Also, the Assassins almost always target whoever is closest to their vanish point for the backstab. When you see an Assassin vanish, move your tank to that location and they'll take it for you.

[Sarevok Anchev]

This sounds good, here are my questions:

tactius : so I can only play this game without annoyance, when I develop a group with cross class combos? Duh...
And on what difficulty are you playing? My Mabari is DEAD in an instant (Hard/Nightmare)

tactius + October Sixth : Threatswitch and moving your tank to the stealth area sounds ok, but shouldnt you forget, that you are fighting against MORE than just the Assassin? Your tank needs to stay put, where he holds him/herself against the minions AND the leader, while your ranged Units have to support and be cautious against Archers and Mages. There is no tactical space to kill the Assassin at the beginning (especially because of his HP, uncontainable Stealth AND Poitons)

[Boss Fog]

Depending on what class you're playing, they can be killed almost instantly if you jump on them right when they appear. What I do is have Merril cast horror, then I backstab the assassin and then assassinate them which usually turns them into a pile of blood and bone.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Well.. it seems you can only get rid of them by using the Cross class Combos

[Boss Fog]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Well.. it seems you can only get rid of them by using the Cross class Combos

You don't need a cross class combo to kill them at higher levels (at least on hard difficulty).  My assassin can 1 shot them w/ assassinate maxed out just fine.

[Sarevok Anchev]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Well.. it seems you can only get rid of them by using the Cross class Combos

You don't need a cross class combo to kill them at higher levels (at least on hard difficulty).  My assassin can 1 shot them w/ assassinate maxed out just fine.

And what about other classes like Warriors?
Will they later on also be able to kill them that easily?
Do the enemies not also become stronger?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Keep the backs of all your party members against the wall and you can't be backstabbed. Use the "Hold your position" button to make sure they all stay on the wall.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Keep the backs of all your party members against the wall and you can't be backstabbed. Use the "Hold your position" button to make sure they all stay on the wall.

Afaik this only works against flanking Backstabs.
The Backstab by stealth is not connected with positioning, it has its own rules;
i think that the skil description for Stealth and its Upgrades are stating this.

[KallDay]

The problem I have with the assassins is that AoEs don't pull them out of stealth like the help text states. That would be fine. It would also be fine if they had the same cooldown for Stealth that PC rogues do: 30 seconds.

[shaneho78]

Shadow Assassins. The reason I switched from my (formerly) trusty Varric to Isabela. Evade (with the stun) seems to have no cooldown for these guys.

[Adhin]

I actually had a stealth templar once completely wipe my group in Nightmare, consistently, due to his massive HP pool. I managed to kill 'everything' with out triggering him too, and when I did all the CCC in the world wasn't killing him.

And yeah I also noticed that KallDay, I've blown the crap outa them in stealth and they still don't show up. I've actually seen arrows hit them or spells cast as there stealthing hit them, see the numbers pop up over there invisibleness and they just keep with it. Freakishly irritating to deal with sometimes. I basically have to pray Pummel Strike stuns them so we have a small reprieve for damage output before they go all ganky on me.

-edit-
Also others pointing out player skills as reasoning behind assassin mobs - no NPC in the game uses player skills. There stealth is unique to them, and there skills are unique to them. That said, from what I've noticed, they do extra damage from behind. I think they get a dmg boost from stealth, and auto-crit if they're flanking you. That or its reserved, auto-crit from stealth and dmg boost from flank.

Also on nightmare they ignore Armor coming out of stealth. I've had em nearly 1 shot my Warrior with nearly 400 HP coming out of stealth from a flanking stab maneuver. Really sucks balls. Though that 1 templar fight was easily the worst coming out of that cave, freakin' crazy.

Modifié par Adhin, 13 mars 2011 - 12:22 .

[Zhel_Ryn]

If it's the templar fight I'm thinking of, boy that was a pain. Two assassin Lts, a commander Lt, and a boat load of fighters and archers made for one of the most annoying fights I've seen so far. That commander has been the only templar so far to do something about the apostates he meets, poor Merril/Anders lol. The Act 2 conclusion was easier for my group than that fight was at the time!

Crowd control and burning them down seems to be the best route for my setup though, same as any other lieutenant rank enemy. (2H Hawke, Varric, Merril, Anders)

[Adhin]

No kidding man it was grueling, barely managed it. Got to the point where I could easily slaughter everyone but that damnable assassins. But by the time you down the Lt, you have 0 stamina/mana across the board heh. Bastard drains you, and yeah he was the first templar I ever saw (even on NM) who actively kept telling his buddies to ignore everything and gank your mages. Freakin' bastard.

I ended up starting off each fight in that by holding, and running the entire party waaaaaay down the hill. Then worked my warrior up slowly with everyone to far back for him to call his men on my mages. Or at least give me time to slow/kill the templars running at them. Worked out ok, but still awful.

[cyph]

If you find that they have ungodly health, you probably need to gain levels before tackling them. In nightmare, I believe certain encounters have a minimum level for the elites.

[cyph]

 It can be done without cheese. You may need two warriors: video here.

[Sarevok Anchev]

mythkandar wrote...

 It can be done without cheese. You may need two warriors: video here.

Actually its this friggin battle that annoyed me the most!
What level did you have for this encounter?
I think I was level 5-6 and had a similar team (my 2h warrior, his sister, doggy, the valkyrie and Varric)

[Nathan Redgrave]

The only enemy I encountered that struck me as overpowered was the Wasp Spider. Fighting those buggers from a distance is suicide, because every time it hits you, it causes you to stumble long enough to hit you AGAIN.

[SuicidalBaby]

Rogues get the chained spell treatment: horror, crushing prison, petrify, cold spells, confuse, stun, upgraded sleep. If enough of these are chained and not resisted the rogue doesn't move.

To prevent death post stealth: Warrior taunt/stonewall, barrier, rogue stealth, glyph of paralysis/repulsion behind your mages or you run for 8-10 seconds.

Cross class combos will devastate a rogue.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Keep the backs of all your party members against the wall and you can't be backstabbed. Use the "Hold your position" button to make sure they all stay on the wall.

wrong. Twin fangs isn't a position based strike. They will faceroll you.

[Snowbug]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Rogues get the chained spell treatment: horror, crushing prison, petrify, cold spells, confuse, stun, upgraded sleep. If enough of these are chained and not resisted the rogue doesn't move.

To prevent death post stealth: Warrior taunt/stonewall, barrier, rogue stealth, glyph of paralysis/repulsion behind your mages or you run for 8-10 seconds.

I concur with this advice.

They also always use their backstab on whoever is closest to the spot they vanish on, so moving your tank to that spot and activating stonewall or moving your rogue to that spot and activating decoy are good strategies. The timing can take a bit of practise, though.

[SuicidalBaby]

Having dog out and taunting with the warrior generally works before or after stealth. Dog soaks that damage like nothing, even on nightmare.

[MadDjinn]

early game, the assassins are murder. midgame, they're just something to kill early in the fight.

I ignore the commanders, unless I can combo them to death before they can move, and kill the assassins/mobs first.

glyph of paralysis, petrify, etc all work on them. Just have to walk up after that and kill them. Rogues do a better job by far against them.
Walk up and back stab
Evade (upgraded) to stun them for a few seconds.
Diving attack (seems auto-crit) since you're now at a distance.
Assassinate or chain death.

They don't last long if they aren't moving.

Warriors have talents that prevent crit attack/damage. Always useful to have. Glyph of repulsion can sometimes work if you place your mages right in front of it; but being a moving target seems better.

[Sarevok Anchev]

I am also further into the game.
Now this enemies are no real problem anymore.

Only enemies who seem OP are Bloodmages, but THAT was also in DA:O ^^