285 réponses à ce sujet

[JrayM16]

@Grovermancer
Well, there's me swinging a sledgehammer, and then there's a trained warrior swinging a sword. It's hard to generate speed, but that's what they do.

As to the shield bash, the animations in DA:O portray the enemy getting hit and being knocked back by force, not falling over stunned. If the enemy animation was the latter I'd agree with you but it's not. Hips generate force, but the attack animation does not match up with the enemy's reaction animation in terms of force and physics.

[Grovermancer]

JrayM16 wrote...

@Grovermancer
Well, there's me swinging a sledgehammer, and then there's a trained warrior swinging a sword. It's hard to generate speed, but that's what they do.

As to the shield bash, the animations in DA:O portray the enemy getting hit and being knocked back by force, not falling over stunned. If the enemy animation was the latter I'd agree with you but it's not. Hips generate force, but the attack animation does not match up with the enemy's reaction animation in terms of force and physics.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

The Shield Bash as you know could be done to an enemy from any direction.  Sometimes to looked to hit them in the face/head.  Other times, the body.  (I know it wasn't a "stun" in the description; I wasn't meaning that)  But I still say it looks as though there's "hip torque" going into the bash, and that's very realistic, and is also where the force is being applied.

As for the speed... that varied as well.  I thought the Shield/Sword was pretty accurate; Assault, for example, seemed very realistic; the Rogue would often be a tad too fast on certain combos (though not inhuman, by any means), and the 2-H too slow.  Though all still within reason; not the absurdity we have now in DA2.

[Hurrrr]

BadGameIsBad wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Bans handed out.

Homophobia is entirely unacceptable on these forums. If you're unable to respond to things in a respectful way, you will not be welcome here anymore.

So in this game marketed towards the "Call of Duty" crowd Bioware thought it was a good idea fill the game with as much homosexuality as possible. Let's not forget the average age of the Call of Duty crowd ranges from 8-15 years old.

Remember, according to JohnEpler, if you dont like this photo you should be banned from the forums.



Feel free to copy/paste this post into any topic you please. Bioware has shown it has no problem with copy/pasting with the release of DA2.

Smooth move Bioware. Very well thought out and responsible of you.

**** it, I find that pic awful, please stop posting this crap.

[bushidobonkai]

The whole game feels somewhat like it was ripped from a comic book. The dark spawn look bizzare in this game, more like wraiths or corrupted humans as described in origins.

I understand playing games with narrative voice - as the game is a story being told in hindsight, certain aspects of the story can be exaggerated or told from a perspective that places a character in a more favorable light. But it even fails the narrative standards the game set. The seeker already stopped Varric for telling too fanciful a story during the opening scene - which only dealt with combat.

If Varric was trying to convice the Seeker that Hawke could explode a human by stabbing him with a dagger, or deal force similar to that of hitting someone with a car then leaping 20 feet for a two handed stab to the downed opponent, dealing less damage than the original stab to boot, he apparently did so successfully, as she did not correct him again.

While certain aspects of the DA:O combat could have been cleaned up, such as the speed with which allies execute commands or the effect of the two-handed weapons such as speed increases or using the effects of momentum, in general the combat was significantly more realistic.

[Psython]

I don't necessarily mind unrealitic combat in a fantsasy RPG, but I prefer combat that looks plausable. Unfortunately, the combat in DA2 looks downright bizarre when paired with the realistic look of the models and the enviroment. I would prefer a stylized realistic look to the combat. That would mean slightly exagerated movement but correct posture and moves that look possible for a human.

[AngelicMachinery]

Grovermancer wrote...


DA2 arrived today from Amazon.  Was completely giddy.  Ready to be swept away like I was from DA, one of my favorite games of all time.
Been playing DA1 for less than an hour.  Had to quit, just to post this. 
So far, I can't stand it, almost entirely because of the combat. (I find the interface and status screens inferior as well, but that's another issue)

DAO had visceral, gritty, real combat moves and animations and skills and abilities.  Fit perfectly with the atmosphere and world, and gave the game such gravity, and validity.  (except for 2-H, where swing speed was too slow and lumbering and should have slowly increase scaled as STR increased)  Basically, the combat was perfect and made every other aspect of the game that much better.

But DA2's unrealistically twitchy, fast, shallow crap looks, feels, and sounds like a damn console 3rd person action knockoff.  WTF.  It's literally hard to even see what the hell I'm doing.   It looks like every garbage console action game I've ever seen; leaping, swooshing, blah blah blah.  Where's that Lars Kracken goober from God of War?  (whatever his name is)

Anyhow, maybe start packaging some ritalin with your games from now on, BW.


Ironically, the only one of my friends who I was never able to convince to buy DAO finally broke down and emailed me today and asked about DA2.  Told him I hadn't gotten it yet, so couldn't vouch for it, but that DAO Ultimate Edition was only $40 on Amazon.  Even though only an hour in, I can say I seriously doubt I'll be recommending DA2.


REQUEST TO MODDERS:   Can someone do something about this combat?  Maybe slow it down a lot, add some realistic moves that look like they come from an actual human being?


------------------------------------


TL;DR  --  Some folks on these boards aren't getting it.

This isn't "opinion."  These are facts:

-- the characters move/fight absurdly too fast to be realistic
-- the characters move in spastic, twitchy ways during strikes and swings
-- the weapons are apparently weightless
-- the combat moves and techniques (that I've seen) are not realistic or true to actual combat
-- the physical kinesthetics are wrong, and imply ignorance of combat technique on the part of the creators
-- people in real weapons combat don't leap to and fro, or lunge a dozen feet in the blink of an eye
-- bodies don't explode, no matter how hard you strike them

All the crap listed above, is what happens in 3rd-person action console games.  Twitch-based, button-mashing, hack n' slash crap.  Shiny, flashy garbage.  The stuff a monkey can play.

None of the stuff listed above was the norm for DAO's combat.

DAO's world and atmosphere was gritty, dire, and real.  So was the combat.  The combat fit the world.  Backed up the atmosphere.  It looked and felt effortful.  It had gravity.  Even stylized moves still hearkened to an actual, real combat.

DA2's combat hearkens to console games.

Add platform jumping, and Dragon Age 3 will be Bioware's God of Castlevania's Dante's Inferno War.

You must be an old person with no eye hand cooridination.

[MaximusPhoenix]

I've only played my mage so far (and the 2H warrior on the demo) I did notice playing with the 2H that there seemed to be pauses between certain moves. That felt kind of natural to me for someone holding such a heavy weapon.

For the mage, during the demo and more on my 1st playthrough, I thought the basic staff attacks were a bit too fast, but I noticed after no matter how many times and how fast I mashed the X button, my mage would not shoot faster, and the auto attacks from staffs seem to have random short pauses too now and then?
I've never actually fought with a long branch in my arms walking down the street, but I would think for someone that was really well fit could easily wield a staff like that and shoot just as fast.
I dunno, the staff combat seems like it's meant to resemble a cop using a small gun or something, or maybe a boxer doing quick light jabs?

As for the way characters bend and move, then ya, I guess OP has a point (especially from what I read about rogues in DA2)

[jenovaproject]

I object to the use of flashy magic use. Seriously you guys what is magic doing in my realistic fencing simulator.

Shame, Bioware.

[Heinrich843]

jenovaproject wrote...

I object to the use of flashy magic use. Seriously you guys what is magic doing in my realistic fencing simulator.

Shame, Bioware.

Yeah, magic doesn't at all fit the lore of the game. Oh wait...

I don't remember any codex entries about how warriors could do double backflips to slice at an opponent. Even if you could... why would you? What a gratuitous waste of stamina.

They don't need to make combat faster, they need to make it more damaging. There's realism and there's believability. Flying anime combat doesn't fit. There's games specifically designed around that sort of combat, this game doesn't seem to be.

Modifié par Heinrich843, 17 mars 2011 - 03:01 .

[DragonLady13]

You're excused. Have fun with that.

I totally agree with everything Grovermancer said. I played DA:O like a person obsessed. I know it is a just game but I was so excited to go pick it up DA:2 I took off work early. I rushed home to play. After playing for 8 hours I was close to tears with utter disappointment!

[DragonLady13]

@ Rockpopple: You're excused. Have fun with that.

I totally agree with everything Grovermancer said. I played DA:O like a person obsessed. I know it is a just game but I was so excited to go pick it up DA:2 I took off work early. I rushed home to play. After playing for 8 hours I was close to tears with utter disappointment!

[Jaymo147]

Congratulations my friend on having decent criticism and escaping a ban.
Woo must be tired.

[damnsalvation]

 I'm with the OP 100%The instant I fired up the demo and saw the combat, my heart broke.  The feel of the combat in Origins helped solidify the atmosphere and was integral to the degree of immersion.  Origins pulled you into a world where most everything felt right and the realism of the combat had a lot to do with that.  As soon as I saw the combat in DA2 the game did what no other BioWare title had ever done; it depressed me.  It was so wrong.  No longer was it visceral and intense, no longer did I feel every strike, no longer could I believe that there was a real sword in play.  
This nonsense has no place in a serious RPG, which is what I thought the seires was supposed to be.  Its just flashy crap for console kiddies who want style over substance.  Just like Fredo, it broke my f***ing heart.

And I'm a total ADD spazz.

Modifié par damnsalvation, 18 mars 2011 - 09:50 .

[damnsalvation]

DragonLady13 wrote...

I totally agree with everything Grovermancer said. I played DA:O like a person obsessed. I know it is a just game but I was so excited to go pick it up DA:2 I took off work early. I rushed home to play. After playing for 8 hours I was close to tears with utter disappointment!

I know EXACTLY how you feel.
Origins pulled you in and didn't let go - I wanted to marry it and devote my life to exploring every facet of the game.
I feel like DA2 got me drunk and gave me herpes.  

[djackson75]

Grovermancer wrote...


DA2 arrived today from Amazon.  Was completely giddy.  Ready to be swept away like I was from DA, one of my favorite games of all time.
Been playing DA1 for less than an hour.  Had to quit, just to post this. 
So far, I can't stand it, almost entirely because of the combat. (I find the interface and status screens inferior as well, but that's another issue)

DAO had visceral, gritty, real combat moves and animations and skills and abilities.  Fit perfectly with the atmosphere and world, and gave the game such gravity, and validity.  (except for 2-H, where swing speed was too slow and lumbering and should have slowly increase scaled as STR increased)  Basically, the combat was perfect and made every other aspect of the game that much better.

But DA2's unrealistically twitchy, fast, shallow crap looks, feels, and sounds like a damn console 3rd person action knockoff.  WTF.  It's literally hard to even see what the hell I'm doing.   It looks like every garbage console action game I've ever seen; leaping, swooshing, blah blah blah.  Where's that Lars Kracken goober from God of War?  (whatever his name is)

Anyhow, maybe start packaging some ritalin with your games from now on, BW.


Ironically, the only one of my friends who I was never able to convince to buy DAO finally broke down and emailed me today and asked about DA2.  Told him I hadn't gotten it yet, so couldn't vouch for it, but that DAO Ultimate Edition was only $40 on Amazon.  Even though only an hour in, I can say I seriously doubt I'll be recommending DA2.


REQUEST TO MODDERS:   Can someone do something about this combat?  Maybe slow it down a lot, add some realistic moves that look like they come from an actual human being?


------------------------------------


TL;DR  --  Some folks on these boards aren't getting it.

This isn't "opinion."  These are facts:

-- the characters move/fight absurdly too fast to be realistic
-- the characters move in spastic, twitchy ways during strikes and swings
-- the weapons are apparently weightless
-- the combat moves and techniques (that I've seen) are not realistic or true to actual combat
-- the physical kinesthetics are wrong, and imply ignorance of combat technique on the part of the creators
-- people in real weapons combat don't leap to and fro, or lunge a dozen feet in the blink of an eye
-- bodies don't explode, no matter how hard you strike them

EDIT:  the facts listed above are true to both RL and the DA universe (since the DA universe melee combat was made to look believable in a RL type setting)

All the crap listed above, is what happens in 3rd-person action console games.  Twitch-based, button-mashing, hack n' slash crap.  Shiny, flashy garbage.  The stuff a monkey can play.

None of the stuff listed above was the norm for DAO's combat.

DAO's world and atmosphere was gritty, dire, and real.  So was the combat.  The combat fit the world.  Backed up the atmosphere.  It looked and felt effortful.  It had gravity.  Even stylized moves still hearkened to an actual, real combat.

DA2's combat hearkens to console games.

Add platform jumping, and Dragon Age 3 will be Bioware's God of Castlevania's Dante's Inferno War.

*REAL* combat moves? I don't remember the last time I have seen *real* combat where I could shoot ice and fire out of my hands... or where I could slice somebody from head to toe with a two handed sword he same size as my body, and have him still stand there and fight back..

There's nothing *real* about any combat in any video game... This unrealistic combat is just different than the unrealistic combat in the first game... but please, dragons aren't real... mages aren't real... none of that is real......

[slimgrin]

damnsalvation wrote...

I feel like DA2 got me drunk and gave me herpes.  

 You should post this on Metacritic.

Modifié par slimgrin, 18 mars 2011 - 09:53 .

[damnsalvation]

slimgrin wrote...

damnsalvation wrote...

I feel like DA2 got me drunk and gave me herpes.  

 You should post this on Metacritic.

Good idea... Done.

[winterborn_89]

OSUfan12121 wrote...

Maybe because some people actually like the combat now? I hated combat with a passion in DA:O it was by far the worst part of the game and it wasnt realistic at all. Your not gonna swing a sword, wait 15 seconds then swing it again. Now im not saying combat in DA2 is perfect but its a step in the right direction.

wow, what a noob. ok then... go grab an oversized sword and swoosh through a whole line of enemies and make them explode. show us how realistic DA2 is compared to DA:O.

[djackson75]

winterborn_89 wrote...

OSUfan12121 wrote...

Maybe because some people actually like the combat now? I hated combat with a passion in DA:O it was by far the worst part of the game and it wasnt realistic at all. Your not gonna swing a sword, wait 15 seconds then swing it again. Now im not saying combat in DA2 is perfect but its a step in the right direction.

wow, what a noob. ok then... go grab an oversized sword and swoosh through a whole line of enemies and make them explode. show us how realistic DA2 is compared to DA:O.

There is NO COMBAT in EITHER DAO game that is *realistic* until you can show me someone who can survive five sword slices to the chest, or a guy who can shoot fireballs from his hands... This is a game with dragons,mages, and elves... all of that "realistic" stuff went out the window during the design phase!!

[Rawgrim]

combat wasn`t good in DA:O either, truth be told. I think something in between the combat in the first game and the second game might be good?

[Riloux]

I admire your passion, and I agree. Bioware just isn't the same company anymore. I think it's over for them-- and us. Another great company falls prey to EA's corporate harpies.

[DA_Joran]

Wow, it really is hard to read through this whole thread. I only got so far before I couldn't take it anymore. My sense is people posting in this topic are over the age of 20 and upwards to their 40's. First off, it's a game. I think people seem to forget that small fact. Second, each of you are not dealing in "facts". You are dealing in opinions. That's it. You each have an opinion and some happen to agree with one another. Get over it.

My Opinion: Having recently played Two Worlds II and being a long time player of Demon's Souls, I have to say "combat" (if you want to call it that) in DA:O and DA2: demo sucks. It's outright horrid. You're a warrior that cannot use his shield to block attacks (-- it's given this happens). All blocks and attacks are calculated and display the appropriate animation. You have no control over this. There is no looking for an enemy's weakness or striking at the right moment. It's all done with a simulated role of the die -- and it's dull. It's hard to remain engaged when you don't even control your character. All you're required to do is set up the right tactics, engage the enemy, and watch the result. The previous is a true statement -- as long as your party has enough health potions.

Maybe I'm the only one here that wants to be in control of what happens. I want to press a block button. I want to press an attack button. I want to press special attack buttons. I want to be more involved than just mashing X for days. I only need to play the demo to know that is the case.

But, getting upset over the animations, body movement, and how much things do not represent "real life" is a waste of time and energy. It's a game and they are never going to fix it. You can fix cool down periods for feats. But, correcting animations takes more than tweaking a variable here and there.

Modifié par DA_Joran, 18 mars 2011 - 11:18 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I really dislike the combat animations too, they look like they are trying too hard to be unique to the point that I greatly prefer the combat animations from Origins. All characters move too quickly, darkspawn look comedic as they shamble at light speed like an army of armored chimps on drugs. Rogues teleporting, doing a spinning kick to launch potions and hopping around like figure skaters just looks aweful. Warriors wield overly large two handed weapons as if they were weightless. Mages spin and flip around just to fire bolts from their staves only to repeat the animation over and over, actually making it look far more repetitive than the staff animations in Origins. Casting spells should be the hard part anyway, by that looks easier than shooting magic bolts from their staves. The rain of arrow skill used by archers is just dumb looking with a hundred arrows falling from the sky from one archer's bow. Varric's assault rifle of a crossbow is just terriblely animated and looks even more rediculous than an archer firing a rain of arrows. The concept seems lifted from the Hunter class in WoW's Volley skill anyway.

Combat is just awefully cheesey in DA 2 in my opinion and it's supposed to be one of the selling points.

[zaklaus]

I think the combat animations in DA2 are a bit over the top, but definitely a step in the right direction- just too big a step.

Origins animations were horrid, painfully slow, and used the same movement over and over.

Da2 was just a little over the top for the setting.

[CRISIS1717]

Yeah the game is awful, it was even worse when I found out 90% of the game was Kirkwall in act 1.

I think Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider should bow out gracefully before they are pushed by the execs.