285 réponses à ce sujet

[OutlawTorn6806]

Grovermancer wrote...

Laj I wrote...

Very nice posts OP, i agree with everything you said, and honestly, it must be really annoying having to deal with some people here, its like talking to a wall lol

The 'funny' thing is, people who try and cite a more stylized move from DAO as "proof" it's "not realistic at all."



Amusing that they can't cite the basic, core, early moves, the one's you use most often... because most of those look exactly like they would if performed in real combat.
Also, they ignore that at least most of the more stylized moves, still at least look like they're being performed by a human.
And of course they ignore all the other factoids cited over and over and over again.

All the while, they apparently ignore that in DA2, every single move and strike, even from basic attacks, are super-human twitchy spaz-crap.

The proverbial "swallow a camel and strain at a gnat."


I think if their egos were threatened, some would argue that 2+2=5 and the "sky is green!"

While you may have "proved" that DAO's combat is more realistic, you can never prove that one is better than the other. However, I do pity you spent so much of your concern on the fact that the game just has a different combat visualization. I pity that you cannot at all enjoy it. And I pity you for being so hard headed for not even giving the game/combat a chance. 

[Mus3]

Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If DA2 had the same exact features, people would **** that it was nothing but an add-on or "more of the same." Now that Bioware changed something people freak out. They scream that the game has been ruined and they want it back to the way it was. I'm sick of people not wanting change. It was the same way with Mass Effect 2. People even wanted the Mako back... I'm just glad that they did make changes and not for the worse. Sure, some things were taken away, but the combat is still as deep as ever, just flashier.

[DA_Joran]

Edli wrote...

DA_Joran wrote...

REGARDING CONSOLES

I use to play all of my games on PC -- Baldur's Gate, Diablo, Command and Conquer, Neverwinter Nights, Sims 2 .. etc.  I now play games on Playstation 3 and I am much happier.  With PCs, you always have to meet system requirements and that gets to be expensive.  Every other year, you have to update your graphics card or audio card. 

I don't think you know much of pc gaming or maybe you're just trolling. Why would anyone update their graphics card every year? I have a 3 years old card and I still play every new game at high quality.

And that about the audio card is even lamer. Why upgrade the audio card?

My statements are true for anyone that built their own PCs during the 1990s and didn't always purchase the $249.00 graphics cards.  I always purchased components that I needed and upgraded to meet average requirements.  That usually meant upgrading some component every other year or building a new system.  I'm not the guy that went out and spent $2500 on building a system.

Modifié par DA_Joran, 19 mars 2011 - 01:45 .

[Grovermancer]

sigh

I'm not sure if you're a troll, if you didn't read any of this thread (including what you quoted), or have 'other issues,' but your points are either irrelevant, or already addressed.  Many times.

First, this is fantasy.  With magic.  That's acknowledged.  And it's not what this is about.  At all.

djackson75 wrote...


*REAL* combat moves? I don't remember the last time I have seen *real* combat where I could shoot ice and fire out of my hands... or where I could slice somebody from head to toe with a two handed sword he same size as my body, and have him still stand there and fight back..

There's nothing *real* about any combat in any video game... This unrealistic combat is just different than the unrealistic combat in the first game... but please, dragons aren't real... mages aren't real... none of that is real......

Wrong.  Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Animations can be more or less realistic.  Obviously.  And most of the moves, especially the 'base' moves, in DAO, were realistic.  More so than the 'God of War' nonsense we have in DA2.  As I've already demonstrated, but as you and yours ignore, apparently cause you can't deal with it.

That's why you can look at footage of professionals doing many of those same techniques, and it looks relatively the same.

I'm curious... do people like you think that all cause you say something, that makes it true?

djackson75 wrote...

There is NO COMBAT in EITHER DAO game
that is *realistic* until you can show me someone who can survive five
sword slices to the chest, or a guy who can shoot fireballs from his
hands... This is a game with dragons,mages, and elves... all of that
"realistic" stuff went out the window during the design phase!!

Wrong again.  And overly simplistic.  And inapplicable.

Obviously there are video game conventions and mechanics.  Yeah, people don't have health bars over their heads in real life.  And that's not what we're talking about.

Only someone who's intellectually dishonest (ie, lying) would pretend that's what we're talking about, or use that as an argument.

[Grovermancer]

DA_Joran wrote...

Wow, it really is hard to read through this whole thread. I only got so far before I couldn't take it anymore. My sense is people posting in this topic are over the age of 20 and upwards to their 40's. First off, it's a game. I think people seem to forget that small fact. Second, each of you are not dealing in "facts". You are dealing in opinions. That's it. You each have an opinion and some happen to agree with one another. Get over it.

Sorry.  Words mean things.  There are 'facts,' and these are them:

-- the characters move/fight absurdly too fast to be realistic
-- the characters move in spastic, twitchy ways during strikes and swings
-- the weapons are apparently weightless
-- the combat moves and techniques (that I've seen) are not realistic or true to actual combat
-- the physical kinesthetics are wrong, and imply ignorance of combat technique on the part of the creators
-- people in real weapons combat don't leap to and fro, or lunge a dozen feet in the blink of an eye
-- bodies don't explode, no matter how hard you strike them


Those are facts.  Doesn't matter if you or I like it or not.  Those statements are accurate to reality.  "Get over it."

[Grovermancer]

zaklaus wrote...

I think the combat animations in DA2 are a bit over the top, but definitely a step in the right direction- just too big a step.

Origins animations were horrid, painfully slow, and used the same movement over and over.

Da2 was just a little over the top for the setting.

Many/most of the animations in DAO combat were close to what a real human being would look like IRL.

Go watch some professionals on tape.  They look very close to many of the techniques in DOA.  They look NOTHING like the combat in DA2.


In fact, there's never been a human being on Earth who looks like the melee combat in DA2.

Find me anyone who could whip around a great ax w/ one hand like it was literaly weightless.

[neppakyo]

I miss the ponderous and powerful swings of DA:O for two-handed weapons

[Grovermancer]

Mus3 wrote...

I find this quote to be absolutely hilarious. Believable with minor exceptions? Firing off arrows quickly, hacking away at an enemy until their healthbar was gone? That's not very believable.. DA:O and DA2 are neither realistic or believable. Ranting and raving about a fantasy game not having realistic or "believable" combat is incredibly ignorant and stupid. Furthermore, I don't believe we need a physical therapist to tell us whether or not combat is realistic.

Again, already addressed.  Or more inapplicable 'arguments.'  Stupid on several fronts.

First, there are accepted aspects of video games.  Players have health bars.  That has nothing whatsoever w/ what we're discussing here, and only reveals your dishonesty in the debate.

BTW, you ever actually do armed and armored combat?  Ever watch it?  (watching 300 doesn't count)

Sometimes, people will beat on one another, and "beat down" their defenses.  Were they real weapons, it would be analogous to "hacking away at an enemy until their healthbar was gone."

Other such examples you and yours run and cling to; the 'styllized' techniques, like a faster bow fire you mention.  It's still bow fire though, isn't it?  How about all those other bow techniques?  You know -- the ones that look pretty much exactly how someone looks when firing a real bow and arrow?  OH?  You ignored all those?


LOL at the weak argument of "it's a fantasy game, therefore nothing matters and there's no such thing as "realistic!""
I guess when you can't make a legit argument, you have to use methods like that, though.

[Grovermancer]

DA_Joran wrote...

@damnsalvation I didn't mean to hurt your feelings and  I am familiar with D&D.  Try to relax.  You're too young for a heart attack over a game.

LOL, cause you're the calm, detached, voice of reason, eh?

[OutlawTorn6806]

We all understand that DAO had more realism in its combat. But what does that prove exactly? Why keep bringing it up? You liked the combat in DAO. I did as well. I liked the combat in DA2 better, because the animations and effects were all very unique and especially spectacular. And yet, what does that prove?

Why do you keep going on and on about this? Does realism inherently prove to everyone that the combat was better? No, no it doesn't. Your ramblings add to nothing but your seemingly desperate concern for the game. You're not the lightsaber kid are you?

[Grovermancer]

Mus3 wrote...

This isn't the genre for us young ones? Ooh. the good old puberty argument. You don't have to be 30 or older to have hit puberty. Your ignorance is disgusting. Just because some of us enjoy DA2 doesn't mean that we only enjoy action rpg's..I thought DA:O was fantastic, but I believe that DA2 was much better.

No. 

But if you like the combat, you like stuff that's by definition closer to 'God of War' console type combat, than traditional BW RPG (including DAO) combat.

Interesting how so many seem to be too embarrassed to admit that.

[Grovermancer]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I had a friend that I convinced to buy DA:O. He never got out of the Tower of Ishal despite the fact that I told him the story picked up after that. Apparently, the combat was too easy and dull. That friend of mine is around my age. And seriously, it's kind of low with the whole ritalin/ADHD/ADD thing. I liked DA:O, and I preferred DA2's combat. This comes from someone who played early RPGs, including the Baldur's Gate series. I've never had a console and have no inclination to get one either. Furthermore, I have a long attention span and do not require ritalin to focus on my tasks. Don't people ever get tired of attacking console users by implying that they're ADD/ADHD? *snort*

Yeah, I wasn't serious or speaking literal that BW should package future games with an actual drug.  That was a joke.

[Grovermancer]

DA_Joran wrote...

Not everyone in that age group is like you were or I was.  When you get older, you will mellow out more and realize half the stuff you're upset about isn't that important. 

Well, it's important enough for you to post about it.  And to seemingly try and misrepresent the argument by claiming there are no facts, when there obviously are. 

I'm guessing you have an emotional investment in the issue.

[Grovermancer]

Mus3 wrote...

Nope, they never get tired of using that argument. It seems to me that's the only one they have.

LOL, something about a black kettlepot.


Yeah, you and yours use every arguement you can not to own-up and acknowledge the facts.

-- the characters move/fight absurdly too fast to be realistic
-- the characters move in spastic, twitchy ways during strikes and swings
-- the weapons are apparently weightless
-- the combat moves and techniques (that I've seen) are not realistic or true to actual combat
-- the physical kinesthetics are wrong, and imply ignorance of combat technique on the part of the creators
-- people in real weapons combat don't leap to and fro, or lunge a dozen feet in the blink of an eye
-- bodies don't explode, no matter how hard you strike them

[OutlawTorn6806]

Grovermancer wrote...

Mus3 wrote...

This isn't the genre for us young ones? Ooh. the good old puberty argument. You don't have to be 30 or older to have hit puberty. Your ignorance is disgusting. Just because some of us enjoy DA2 doesn't mean that we only enjoy action rpg's..I thought DA:O was fantastic, but I believe that DA2 was much better.

No. 

But if you like the combat, you like stuff that's by definition closer to 'God of War' console type combat, than traditional BW RPG (including DAO) combat.

Interesting how so many seem to be too embarrassed to admit that.

Its interesting how you keep making that comparison as if it means anything. Don't you have some sword fighting youtube videos to be watching?

[Grovermancer]

Marionetten wrote...

Great post and I completely agree with you. Dragon Age was supposed to be a low magic universe filled to the brim with grit and despair. Dragon Age 2 is the complete opposite. Magic is everywhere, combat looks like something out of Naruto and the world is way too clean.

Yes.

[Grovermancer]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

I'd also love to know why people are debating the realism of combat moves in a game where people are shooting magic out of staffs and summoning fire from their hands.

I mean we could argue that you only have to hit someone with a sword once to kill them if we want to argue realism but that wouldn't' make for a very fun game.

Lazy tactic, already dismissed time and again in this thread. 

Just another way to try and avoid the issue.

-- the characters move/fight absurdly too fast to be realistic
-- the characters move in spastic, twitchy ways during strikes and swings
-- the weapons are apparently weightless
-- the combat moves and techniques (that I've seen) are not realistic or true to actual combat
-- the physical kinesthetics are wrong, and imply ignorance of combat technique on the part of the creators
-- people in real weapons combat don't leap to and fro, or lunge a dozen feet in the blink of an eye
-- bodies don't explode, no matter how hard you strike them

[Grovermancer]

Maedryc wrote...

This.
Neither DAO nor DA2 are even remotely "realistic", unless you real think people just stand still and take turns at hitting each other on the head in a fight.
Seriously, DA2 combat is over the top and too flashy, but if you consider DA:O fights "realistic", you might need a reality check.

It's realistic enough to be believable, and to fit in the DA universe.

Go watch the same basic combat moves that you could do in DAO.
Watch a Shield Bash, a 3-part attack like Assault, an overhead strike from a Halberd, even filipino weapons fighting...
...many/most of the animations in DAO was realistic.


Seriously, do some of you just say stuff... and think that makes it true?

[OutlawTorn6806]

Lol, wow, grover. You just dislike the game alot don't you? Not only have you come and made this thread which serves no purpose than for you to keep spamming your bullet points, but it also proves nothing. Isn't this just flat out trolling?

Do you think you are actually accomplishing anything? Is your internet-the-oh-so-eye-opening campaign working? You truly are the knight of justice!

[Grovermancer]

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

I felt the same way as you, OP, since I was a big old school RPG fan. But like you, I had the exact same complaints and made a thread about it. But unlike you, I have given the game a shot and surprisingly have found the combat is almost literally the same as DAO, and yet, infinitely better. The combat plays out literally in the same way except...faster. Just get your head out of your ass for a moment and give it a shot; DA2's combat is miles above DAO. It is also very beautiful to look at and play with.

And thank god they got rid of the 'reused animations' from DAO combat. How many rogue skills were the exact same animation over and over.

Sorry, wrong.

I already beat it.  Made a thread here.

It's not the same as DAO.  Pretty much at all.  Already addressed countless times.

Just cause you say something doesn't make it true.  Take a breath.  I don't care about opinions.  Yours or mine.

[Grovermancer]

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...
While you may have "proved" that DAO's combat is more realistic,

I accept your apology.

[OutlawTorn6806]

Grover, you have no argument, because you make no point. Therefore, your ''debate'' is baseless. Keep yammering, because your false arguments will continually fail.

[Grovermancer]

Mus3 wrote...

Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If DA2 had the same exact features, people would **** that it was nothing but an add-on or "more of the same." Now that Bioware changed something people freak out. They scream that the game has been ruined and they want it back to the way it was. I'm sick of people not wanting change. It was the same way with Mass Effect 2. People even wanted the Mako back... I'm just glad that they did make changes and not for the worse. Sure, some things were taken away, but the combat is still as deep as ever, just flashier.

More non-arguments.

They weren't damned w/ DAO, were they?

[OutlawTorn6806]

Beating the game doesn't mean you gave it a chance. That being said, there are numerous similarities between DAO and DA2's combat. "Thats a fact".

[OutlawTorn6806]

Grovermancer wrote...

Mus3 wrote...

Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If DA2 had the same exact features, people would **** that it was nothing but an add-on or "more of the same." Now that Bioware changed something people freak out. They scream that the game has been ruined and they want it back to the way it was. I'm sick of people not wanting change. It was the same way with Mass Effect 2. People even wanted the Mako back... I'm just glad that they did make changes and not for the worse. Sure, some things were taken away, but the combat is still as deep as ever, just flashier.

More non-arguments.

They weren't damned w/ DAO, were they?

Speaking of non-arguments, when do you think you'll actually make an arguement?

Modifié par OutlawTorn6806, 19 mars 2011 - 02:34 .