I've picked up a few equipment that increases my mana regeneration rate, but I'm wondering how this works. I know in origins some items increased regneration outside of combat and others during combat. I assumed these items worked during combat, but I haven't seen any significant regeneration using them. Would I be better off just using items that add to my mana pool itself?
Mana/Stamina Regeneration Rate?
Débuté par
SapphireFire
, mars 12 2011 08:10
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#2
Posté 12 mars 2011 - 08:26
Rallion01
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There are some long fights where a larger mana pool isn't going to be nearly as useful as fast regen, but I'm not 100% sure how the +regen on items works. 2% sounds pretty low, and I've never really been sure if it makes much of a difference. I'm near the endgame, and it seems like most of my regen comes from abilities.
#3
Posté 12 mars 2011 - 09:00
Adhin
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Yeah its kinda weak initially, 1 point of regeneration (of any kind) is 0.025% per second. So finding them belt/rings early on thats +2? Thats 0.05% per second, or 1% every 20 seconds. Yeah that's weak as hell but it can stack up and eventually you find +5 or higher.
Here's one way to look at it though, both are useful but at base (1% mana per second) +10 mana from 1 item is basically always going to be about 1 mana, every 10 seconds. Now compare this to a base of 200 mana (super easy with out any items, thats basically 20 willpower). +2 regeneration is 0.05% per second, or 1% per 20 seconds. Sounds kinda weak, right? well over a long fight that's ultimately 1 mana every 6 seconds.
So yeah I'd say stack up mana regeneration over +mana, and later on you start getting +5 or higher. If you get just 1 passive for ane xtra +10 (.25% per second, 1% per 4 seconds) and a few items, you could have a solid 2-3% per second.
Don't skimp on willpower (need 32 for best items anyways), 32 base would be 260 base mana already. Bit more can see about 300 mana. You can see how regen being %based can start to really add up over time in the longer fights. And the shorter fights its barely a concern anyways - there short.
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Course that's a mage. Warrior/Rogue its harder to get your stamina up that high and not gimp your self, so +stamina is ultimately of a greater benefit. Besides, Rogues get at base 1% mana per 'hit' they do. They don't need stamina regeneration at all, they just have to hit some ****s in the face. Get an ugprade for 2% too infact, thats full stamina bar in 50 hits. Single attack chain is 10 hits, so...I mean...yeah.
Rallion01 made a good point though on on it coming from abilities. One nice one is Rally on Warriors. Upgrading that is basically a 100% re-fill for the party, minus the warrior. Only effects companions but its pretty solid either way, 200 regen at base so thats 50% in 10 seconds (how long it lasts). Upgrades to 400 or 600 (not 100% sure) either way thats 100% in either 10 seconds or 7-ish, depending on which total it is.
Here's one way to look at it though, both are useful but at base (1% mana per second) +10 mana from 1 item is basically always going to be about 1 mana, every 10 seconds. Now compare this to a base of 200 mana (super easy with out any items, thats basically 20 willpower). +2 regeneration is 0.05% per second, or 1% per 20 seconds. Sounds kinda weak, right? well over a long fight that's ultimately 1 mana every 6 seconds.
So yeah I'd say stack up mana regeneration over +mana, and later on you start getting +5 or higher. If you get just 1 passive for ane xtra +10 (.25% per second, 1% per 4 seconds) and a few items, you could have a solid 2-3% per second.
Don't skimp on willpower (need 32 for best items anyways), 32 base would be 260 base mana already. Bit more can see about 300 mana. You can see how regen being %based can start to really add up over time in the longer fights. And the shorter fights its barely a concern anyways - there short.
-edit-
Course that's a mage. Warrior/Rogue its harder to get your stamina up that high and not gimp your self, so +stamina is ultimately of a greater benefit. Besides, Rogues get at base 1% mana per 'hit' they do. They don't need stamina regeneration at all, they just have to hit some ****s in the face. Get an ugprade for 2% too infact, thats full stamina bar in 50 hits. Single attack chain is 10 hits, so...I mean...yeah.
Rallion01 made a good point though on on it coming from abilities. One nice one is Rally on Warriors. Upgrading that is basically a 100% re-fill for the party, minus the warrior. Only effects companions but its pretty solid either way, 200 regen at base so thats 50% in 10 seconds (how long it lasts). Upgrades to 400 or 600 (not 100% sure) either way thats 100% in either 10 seconds or 7-ish, depending on which total it is.
Modifié par Adhin, 12 mars 2011 - 09:05 .
#4
Posté 12 mars 2011 - 09:10
SapphireFire
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Thank you both for the insightful responses!
I will hold onto the regen items, hopefully they do get more useful later on. I'm still early in the game (act 1) so I suppose the +mana items would be more useful than the low bonus to regeneration at this point.
I will hold onto the regen items, hopefully they do get more useful later on. I'm still early in the game (act 1) so I suppose the +mana items would be more useful than the low bonus to regeneration at this point.
#5
Posté 12 mars 2011 - 09:33
Adhin
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Sure thing ^.^
Oh and in case you wonder, regeneration of any kind is based off total Max, so sustained abilities don't eat into that at all as your 'max' is still your max. Its just artificially stifled as that parts reserved for the sustained.
Fun thing with mages though. At 200 mana, they at base regenerate 20 mana per 10 seconds. You can use 2 abilities that cost 20 mana, with 20 second timers and come out breaking even. Mages only really start losing mana if they start tossing out a ton of stuff, being a bit conservative can keep you near full, partly why its so pointless in small fights.
Templar fights suck though. Bastards do a lot of moves that completely drain out mana ( and health ) all at once. Always end up having my party stamina/mana at 0 majority of the fight, really irritating. Usually just the big commander bosses in the pack though so good idea to kill them as fast as possible, or dump as many skills into them as possible right away so when they drain you - your already used it to put damage towards there giant HP bar.
Oh and in case you wonder, regeneration of any kind is based off total Max, so sustained abilities don't eat into that at all as your 'max' is still your max. Its just artificially stifled as that parts reserved for the sustained.
Fun thing with mages though. At 200 mana, they at base regenerate 20 mana per 10 seconds. You can use 2 abilities that cost 20 mana, with 20 second timers and come out breaking even. Mages only really start losing mana if they start tossing out a ton of stuff, being a bit conservative can keep you near full, partly why its so pointless in small fights.
Templar fights suck though. Bastards do a lot of moves that completely drain out mana ( and health ) all at once. Always end up having my party stamina/mana at 0 majority of the fight, really irritating. Usually just the big commander bosses in the pack though so good idea to kill them as fast as possible, or dump as many skills into them as possible right away so when they drain you - your already used it to put damage towards there giant HP bar.
#6
Posté 12 mars 2011 - 10:40
x-president
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I was just gonna ask about this. I'm glad I found this post.
I'm doing a test build of basically straight Magic only. I did take willpower to 17, but have stopped adding anything to it. I am getting all the regen stuff I can.
So far it's not too bad. The good thing is staffs don't require WP so I can still get the good ones. I'm starting to notice the difference in spellpower. I'm not even level 10 yet and I am playing on hard.
I'm doing a test build of basically straight Magic only. I did take willpower to 17, but have stopped adding anything to it. I am getting all the regen stuff I can.
So far it's not too bad. The good thing is staffs don't require WP so I can still get the good ones. I'm starting to notice the difference in spellpower. I'm not even level 10 yet and I am playing on hard.
#7
Posté 13 mars 2011 - 01:00
Ojisanbio
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So, spirit healer with aura and passive which is +200 regen, should regen 5% hp per second plus some base. And ticks are around 4sec in game? They seems longer then 1 sec, tho i didnt try timing them yet.
After i respecced Hawk into healer i noticed that sometimes he regens like mad, sometimes almost doesn't regen. It seems regen became somewhat weird and random after i went spirit healer.
Same with party members - sometimes they regen nicely, sometimes dont.
After i respecced Hawk into healer i noticed that sometimes he regens like mad, sometimes almost doesn't regen. It seems regen became somewhat weird and random after i went spirit healer.
Same with party members - sometimes they regen nicely, sometimes dont.
Modifié par Ojisanbio, 13 mars 2011 - 01:01 .
#8
Posté 13 mars 2011 - 01:10
Adhin
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The spirit healer aura is health regeneration not stamina, its upgraded to 100. Which is basically 2.5% per second. Ticks maybe 4 seconds yeah, kinda depends. A lot of 'ticking' seems to be 4 second based so I wouldn't be surprised if that's how its handled.
In DAO regeneration would skyrocket (basically get a 'boost') when you got below certain thresholds, basically 20% and 10% of max mana and you'd get boosts. Mage may have a 40 base, and gets a boost when they're low. That would explain your variations and be inline with kinda how it worked in DAO. Would make sense, everyone seems to regen to 10% rather quickly with no help at all, then kinda get slow again.
and x-president, you'll need 32 willpower for equipping mage items eventually. 17 will basically have you in **** gear. Runes power is based off gear as well so that'll be heavily limited. Keep in mind though by lvl 14 on my Warrior, I was able to have 42 base STR (say your magic) and over 30 Con. You could easily go 32 Willpower and then have Magic in the 50-60's by 20 and just keep it going well past that point.
It's actually what I plan to do for my Force/Spirit Mage. Just use the books that give +stats, and the fade theres a few 'puzzles' you can do (save before doing them!!) that'll net you 2 points to spend where you want, think theres 3 so thats at least 6 bonus points.
In DAO regeneration would skyrocket (basically get a 'boost') when you got below certain thresholds, basically 20% and 10% of max mana and you'd get boosts. Mage may have a 40 base, and gets a boost when they're low. That would explain your variations and be inline with kinda how it worked in DAO. Would make sense, everyone seems to regen to 10% rather quickly with no help at all, then kinda get slow again.
and x-president, you'll need 32 willpower for equipping mage items eventually. 17 will basically have you in **** gear. Runes power is based off gear as well so that'll be heavily limited. Keep in mind though by lvl 14 on my Warrior, I was able to have 42 base STR (say your magic) and over 30 Con. You could easily go 32 Willpower and then have Magic in the 50-60's by 20 and just keep it going well past that point.
It's actually what I plan to do for my Force/Spirit Mage. Just use the books that give +stats, and the fade theres a few 'puzzles' you can do (save before doing them!!) that'll net you 2 points to spend where you want, think theres 3 so thats at least 6 bonus points.
#9
Posté 13 mars 2011 - 02:10
x-president
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Adhin wrote...
and x-president, you'll need 32 willpower for equipping mage items eventually. 17 will basically have you in **** gear. Runes power is based off gear as well so that'll be heavily limited. Keep in mind though by lvl 14 on my Warrior, I was able to have 42 base STR (say your magic) and over 30 Con. You could easily go 32 Willpower and then have Magic in the 50-60's by 20 and just keep it going well past that point.
It's actually what I plan to do for my Force/Spirit Mage. Just use the books that give +stats, and the fade theres a few 'puzzles' you can do (save before doing them!!) that'll net you 2 points to spend where you want, think theres 3 so thats at least 6 bonus points.
Well right now my mage is turning into a power house. I'm lvl 10, but I'm destroying low level groups and holding my entire team back. That quest where you save the son of the head guy was a breeze. I'm playing on hard but all the fights are becoming easy.
For now I'm gonna stick to just magic, but I may add some WP later. I'm testing to see if better armor will matter at all. So far it hasn't imo.
Modifié par x-president, 13 mars 2011 - 02:12 .
#10
Posté 13 mars 2011 - 04:36
Adhin
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Yeah act 1 doesn't have much going on for it. If you look in the black emporium you can see a good example of items to come. Basically a lot of stuff is limited to the smaller +2 and so forth but all items mods are item level dependant. Unique items have static lvls so they are what they are.
Other items you find spawn randomly, and there lvl is whatever your lvl is when they spawn. And things start to scale up a lot. For instance lower lvl +attack is about 10, by lvl 10 its around +20-ish. Starts to get up there, same with Runes, Fire Rune in a low end weapon is like +4 dmg. Later on its tripple that.
40+ magic will let you equip any staff in the game, which is the actual bulk of your dmg. Your only gaining 1 DPS per 2 points in magic atm. As an example simple lower end staffs, 22 dmg, 30 DPS. That's a low end, 18-20 magic requirement staff. You'd need 70 Magic just to match that and thats about lvl 6-ish.
I just don't think its worth it going to overboard to the point of ignoring willpower all together but that's me. Your actual damage output wouldn't be much different if you had been doing a 2/1 split, your doing well just cause of how your playing.
I've been playing on Nightmare and half the fights feel relatively easy. Some though tend to just get way out of hand outa no where as there obviously balanced for normal.
Other items you find spawn randomly, and there lvl is whatever your lvl is when they spawn. And things start to scale up a lot. For instance lower lvl +attack is about 10, by lvl 10 its around +20-ish. Starts to get up there, same with Runes, Fire Rune in a low end weapon is like +4 dmg. Later on its tripple that.
40+ magic will let you equip any staff in the game, which is the actual bulk of your dmg. Your only gaining 1 DPS per 2 points in magic atm. As an example simple lower end staffs, 22 dmg, 30 DPS. That's a low end, 18-20 magic requirement staff. You'd need 70 Magic just to match that and thats about lvl 6-ish.
I just don't think its worth it going to overboard to the point of ignoring willpower all together but that's me. Your actual damage output wouldn't be much different if you had been doing a 2/1 split, your doing well just cause of how your playing.
I've been playing on Nightmare and half the fights feel relatively easy. Some though tend to just get way out of hand outa no where as there obviously balanced for normal.
#11
Posté 13 mars 2011 - 05:00
Adhin
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Coulda sworn I had posted here a response but hour or so later, hasn't shown up so...
What I was also trying to get across besides the item progression you skip out on by going pure Magic, is that majority of your damage is from the staff you use and items you have equipped. Basically, for every 2 points in magic your only gaining +1 base damage. A basic 20 magic staff (thats about lvl 6-ish) is about 22 dmg. You would need 54 magic just to match that.
Not saying magic isn't worth it, im just trying to get across majority of your damage is actually from your equipment. Spazzing out Magic while nice isn't whats making you kick a lot of ass. And down the road, lacking equipment is going to mean less %dmg, less +stats, less in general not just the Armor% (which is already low on mages).
Which, ultimately, will mean less dmg overall. Sides like I was saying you'll have more then enough points to get magic well over 60 by 20 if you just put enough into will to hit about 30-32. That's +25 dmg right there. Course staffs by then will probably be doing 50-60 base, or more.
What I was also trying to get across besides the item progression you skip out on by going pure Magic, is that majority of your damage is from the staff you use and items you have equipped. Basically, for every 2 points in magic your only gaining +1 base damage. A basic 20 magic staff (thats about lvl 6-ish) is about 22 dmg. You would need 54 magic just to match that.
Not saying magic isn't worth it, im just trying to get across majority of your damage is actually from your equipment. Spazzing out Magic while nice isn't whats making you kick a lot of ass. And down the road, lacking equipment is going to mean less %dmg, less +stats, less in general not just the Armor% (which is already low on mages).
Which, ultimately, will mean less dmg overall. Sides like I was saying you'll have more then enough points to get magic well over 60 by 20 if you just put enough into will to hit about 30-32. That's +25 dmg right there. Course staffs by then will probably be doing 50-60 base, or more.
#12
Posté 13 mars 2011 - 10:03
Ojisanbio
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Well just timed health regen...on Hawk with 199 hp spirit healer ppassiva and active regen +200 he healed 8 hp every 2 seonds. That looks much less then 0,025% per 1 point - its 0,01% per second.
So this amulets with +2 health regen are utter trash -.-
So this amulets with +2 health regen are utter trash -.-
#13
Posté 13 mars 2011 - 10:49
Adhin
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Huh yeah, if thats right that is a tad off, could just be glitched. If so hopefully it gets patched.
