243 réponses à ce sujet

[Anathemic]

Justin2k wrote...

If you go play World Of Warcraft or something similar, you'll see lots of trash which is really quite intricate.

From groups of 2 mages and 2 melee, to groups of archers hiding behind a big tank... or even one single enemy that requires strategy to down.

Where as here, its the same every time. Fight lots of mobs, more mobs come, mobs have high hp, rogues hurt you.

Thats combat, for the whole entire game. And it just shows a laziness to actually sit down and work on encounters and strategy to improve the combat system and the enjoyment of the player. Shame really.

This game needed about 3 more years of work.

You're kidding me right? WoW takes skill, why do you think raids fail with 1 of 25 guys screw up?

In WoW all the creeps/mobs are already set, they don't spawn over you. In instances terrain is a huge tactical advantage (Heroic Shadowfang Keep, Lost city of Tol'vir, etc.)

[-Conspirator]

arguile.42 wrote...

I honestly don't understand how anyone can defend the constant waves. The system is completely broken and mind numbing. Every encounter is n waves (where n > 2) of increasingly higher HP enemies with a slight decrease in number spawned. Almost every enouncounter starts with with a number of throw-away henchman that instantly explode into tiny pieces when an AoE is cast. Occasionally a high HP boss lasts multiple waves.

You just gather enemies into groups and spam AoE with not a care that party members might be caught in the radius as apparently fire, ice, lighthing, and arrows have all decided to play nice and never touch your friends.

As soon as one wave is almost down their replacements randomly drop out of the sky so you have some more anonymous fodder.

Your entire party might as well all not bother moving as projectiles all seem to travel through or arround corners and the next wave is going to drop on your head no matter where you are so the repetitive terrain is just eye candy (at least the first of the fifty times you're going to see it).

A few hours in and your body count is probably a few thousands bandits of one indistinguishable form or another. The invisible incredibly efficient street cleaners must hate us.

It's a drop dead dumb alogrithm and overall rush job pasted into where level design used to be.

I can overlook all of the other (occasionally glaring) flaws, but the egregious combat system has completely ruined the game for me. I feel I may be missing out on a fun story, but I refuse to work through the mindless drudgery of combat for it. I am saddened as I was really looking forward to this title. I would gladly return the game if I could, as it is I can only not pre-order the other titles.

Thanks, I had to get that out of my system.

Play on another difficulty before you whine for hours ffs.
Friendly fire on nightmare is actually extremely tough.

[Cancermeat]

Anathemic wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

If you go play World Of Warcraft or something similar, you'll see lots of trash which is really quite intricate.

From groups of 2 mages and 2 melee, to groups of archers hiding behind a big tank... or even one single enemy that requires strategy to down.

Where as here, its the same every time. Fight lots of mobs, more mobs come, mobs have high hp, rogues hurt you.

Thats combat, for the whole entire game. And it just shows a laziness to actually sit down and work on encounters and strategy to improve the combat system and the enjoyment of the player. Shame really.

This game needed about 3 more years of work.

You're kidding me right? WoW takes skill, why do you think raids fail with 1 of 25 guys screw up?

In WoW all the creeps/mobs are already set, they don't spawn over you. In instances terrain is a huge tactical advantage (Heroic Shadowfang Keep, Lost city of Tol'vir, etc.)

Yeah

[Thalorin1919]

Due to my extensive experience in raiding in WoW, these were not a problem.


...Just kidding. Well, kind of. I came to expect the worse once I learned of the 'waves' thing everytime I went in a fight. Honestly, it's not that bad, and it's more challenging. No, it's not a 'cheap' way to do it, imo.

[bushidobonkai]

I have only gotten through the second act, but I don't the waves are necessarily the problem; it's the spawning from thin air that is more frustrating. From a realistic sense, you wouldn't always know exactly how many attackers there were, or if some were hiding just out of sight. What you would know is that someone standing in an open area wouldn't have to worry about an attacker materializing in an area that they would be able to see.

[b00mQQ]

If you were passing by in a neighborhood, and just went up to a group of thugs and attacked them, do you honestly think they would sit there and take it without calling on reinforcements? I can assure you, within moments, you would be overwhelmed by their "homies".

You people really need to start putting some thought into your rants. Seriously. Because I know damn well if someone walked up to me and punched me in the face I would yell out for help.

Modifié par b00mQQ, 16 mars 2011 - 11:02 .

[The Metalion]

Tankosaurus wrote...

I realize this is like the umpteenth topic on this but I have to say something otherwise my frustration with trying to play this game on nightmare will spill out into real life.

Why oh god why are there waves of enemies in this game? it takes the tactical fun right out of the game because you cant plan ahead.  It makes the game boil down to trial and error/load game bs.  This is not challenging its just cheesy and frustrating.

I agree.  When I played the demo, I thought the waves of darkspawn were just for the demo purpose.  I was disappointed to find the same thing in the full game.

You fight a battle.  Then, once you finished that battle, you fight that battle again.  After that, you fight the same battle once more.  Then, for good measure, you repeat the sequence.

[Few87]

Look this whole game is fail, not just the stupid waves of upon waves of enemies. Its the entire mess. The tragically bad story, writing, "RPG" gameplay, the entire damn thing. I said all along that this would be mass effect 3 not dragon age 2 but almost everyone on here said otherwise. Its simply disgusting how they think we would just love this as its made by bioware. They could quite simply have called this Dragon Effect 2, Dynasty warriors: age of the dragon 2 casual extreme edition. It makes me sad

[Goldfinger168]

b00mQQ wrote...

You people really need to start putting some thought into your rants. Seriously. Because I know damn well if someone walked up to me and punched me in the face I would yell out for help.

But it wouldn't make reinforcements appear out of thin air or fall from the sky. So try not to get punched in the face.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's cheap because they didn't conform to the rules of the setting in the encounter design. So we now can't make in-character decisions during combat and expect the consequences to make any sense.

[Eber]

The waves dehumanize the characters in the game and removes any sense of scale. In Origins when you slaughtered a group of refugees in Lothering you might have felt something. You just killed a dozen or so desperate men. When you got to the deeproads you thought: wow there really are a lot of darkspawn here. In DA2 where every battle has about the same number of enemies, or at the very least more than I can be bothered to count, there are no big battles. Any task no matter how trivial has you slaughtering droves. It doesn't matter if you're killing a village, waging war or trying to get around a corner. In either case there will be a horrific bloodbath. As a result slauthering droves becomes a non issue. I find myself not caring.

Modifié par Eber, 17 mars 2011 - 12:29 .

[Eber]

Goldfinger168 wrote...

b00mQQ wrote...

You people really need to start putting some thought into your rants. Seriously. Because I know damn well if someone walked up to me and punched me in the face I would yell out for help.

But it wouldn't make reinforcements appear out of thin air or fall from the sky. So try not to get punched in the face.

And you wouldn't wait until most of your friends were dead to call for them. The waves do not add realism.

[-Conspirator]

Eber wrote...

Goldfinger168 wrote...

b00mQQ wrote...

You people really need to start putting some thought into your rants. Seriously. Because I know damn well if someone walked up to me and punched me in the face I would yell out for help.

But it wouldn't make reinforcements appear out of thin air or fall from the sky. So try not to get punched in the face.

And you wouldn't wait until most of your friends were dead to call for them. The waves do not add realism.

Is realism what you're looking for? While I can understand that, at least for me personally realism isn't the most important thing in an RPG. And if this mechanic adds to interesting encounters (which it does in my opinion), then I'm completely fine with that.
The thing with the waves is that it allows AoE to be strong, yet not overpowered and it's also good for longer fights and tension. The only downside I see is that it can  really screw up your positioning, which can be annoying at times .

[Capeo]

I think the current combat is far, far better than the bore that DAO combat was. People seem to think tactical means slow and exactly the same every time. The problem with DAO combat is you could literally watch a video of a battle, do the exact the thing the person in the video did, and you'd win no matter the difficulty. That's not tactical. Tactics, in combat, are performed on the fly. The change depending on what you're facing. The new combat system, especially on Nightmare, makes you think on the fly and reevaluate your tactics constantly. People are just moaning because you have to deal with battles differently. Instead of an overhead view you have switch through your characters to evaluate the battlefield and figure out the best place to be. You can still funnel enemies through choke points, you just can't lay traps there because you somehow magically knew a fight would be coming like the last game. Mage's need spells to clear there immediate area and reposition if needed. Threat needs be constantly managed and at least two characters should have some threat attracting abilities to manage the field. The fighting is very tactical, it's just not predictable.

[Mr Fixit]

Eber wrote...

The waves dehumanize the characters in the game and removes any sense of scale. In Origins when you slaughtered a group of refugees in Lothering you might have felt something. You just killed a dozen or so desperate men. When you got to the deeproads you thought: wow there really are a lot of darkspawn here. In DA2 where every battle has about the same number of enemies, or at the very least more than I can be bothered to count, there are no big battles. Any task no matter how trivial has you slaughtering droves. It doesn't matter if you're killing a village, waging war or trying to get around a corner. In either case there will be a horrific bloodbath. As a result slauthering droves becomes a non issue. I find myself not caring.

Excellent post.

There is a reason for "less is more". When every fight is a bloodbath, no fight is a bloodbath. When everything tries to be "awesome", nothing ends up awesome.

It's the basic principle of pacing and tension. Awesome, bloody, scary has to be tempered and done with restraint, so that when it really happens, it's all the more powerful for it.

DA:O battles, in my opinion, were far more brutal because they were much more realistic. When every blow explodes your enemies into thousand chunks, you feel no sense of accomplishment; it just becomes mundane and common.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 17 mars 2011 - 12:09 .

[lastpawn]

Mr Fixit wrote...

Eber wrote...

The waves dehumanize the characters in the game and removes any sense of scale. In Origins when you slaughtered a group of refugees in Lothering you might have felt something. You just killed a dozen or so desperate men. When you got to the deeproads you thought: wow there really are a lot of darkspawn here. In DA2 where every battle has about the same number of enemies, or at the very least more than I can be bothered to count, there are no big battles. Any task no matter how trivial has you slaughtering droves. It doesn't matter if you're killing a village, waging war or trying to get around a corner. In either case there will be a horrific bloodbath. As a result slauthering droves becomes a non issue. I find myself not caring.

Excellent post.

There is a reason for "less is more". When every fight is a bloodbath, no fight is a bloodbath. When everything tries to be "awesome", nothing ends up awesome.

It's the basic principle of pacing and tension. Awesome, bloody, scary has to be tempered and done with restraint, so that when it really happens, it's all the more powerful for it.

DA:O battles, in my opinion, were far more brutal because they were much more realistic. When every blow explodes your enemies into thousand chunks, you feel no sense of accomplishment; it just becomes mundane and common.

"Less is more."

I found myself wishing someone told that to the developers

[Rixxencaxx]

i am in act 3 just realized that hard difficulty is just about more health for enemies and more waves....i am so sick of this combat that i think i will pass to easy just to go faster to the end of this crap.....ending this just to justify money spent and cause i am a completionist

[Ljorn]

BP20125810 wrote...

I love the game, and am a diehard biofan, but the lack of dungeon variety and the use of enemies in waves soured the experience.

Exactly how I feel. Seems like a cheep way to make things more difficult.