243 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

That's interesting considering how many people complained about static enemy placement in DA:O. I remember comments about combat being too predictable, too easy, not random enough, etc. Also, people complained that there weren't enough encounters. Apparently, they can't win no matter what they do.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 12 mars 2011 - 09:30 .

[Cancermeat]

Maybe if only certain boss fights had waves it wouldnt have worked but for me it had nothing to do with strategy it just made things tiresome.

[Andante78]

There was tactics in BG2? Once I figured out the mechanics of D&D... there were no tactics.

All I remember was being a human lvl 9 kensai/lvl 17 mage steamrolling everything

[SleeplessInSigil]

Andante78 wrote...

There was tactics in BG2? Once I figured out the mechanics of D&D... there were no tactics.

All I remember was being a human lvl 9 kensai/lvl 17 mage steamrolling everything

Try "steamrolling" anything in Temple of Elemental Evil 

[Tankosaurus]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

That's interesting considering how many people complained about static enemy placement in DA:O. I remember comments about combat being too predictable, too easy, not random enough, etc. Also, people complained that there weren't enough encounters. Apparently, they can't win no matter what they do.

if you read the entire post you would see the part where i said the spell nerfs where a nice touch, i actually agree with most of them.

hard CC and mages being OP were what made the first game too easy, and now they are not.

[electroban]

It's not even that, if you havent built your characters correclty enough with enough synergy nightmare and sometimes hard mode is even pointless. Why bother? Theres no reward to beating it, im just playing it for the story now

[Tankosaurus]

Andante78 wrote...

There was tactics in BG2? Once I figured out the mechanics of D&D... there were no tactics.

All I remember was being a human lvl 9 kensai/lvl 17 mage steamrolling everything

yea, if by "figuring you D&D" you mean going on forums, finding appropriate cookie cutter build and then playing, then yes you figured it out.  Problem is the game is new, we dont really know what is gamebreaking yet, therefore, your party dies, and often.

[lizzbee]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

That's interesting considering how many people complained about static enemy placement in DA:O. I remember comments about combat being too predictable, too easy, not random enough, etc. Also, people complained that there weren't enough encounters. Apparently, they can't win no matter what they do.

I'm guessing these aren't the same people posting in this thread.  For the most part, I liked DA:O's combat.  It felt realistic.  It felt reasonably balanced.  You still had lots of random combat-- the ambushes, the spawned enemies in Orzammar, etc., but it wasn't overbearing and incessant like in this game.

And the fights are "predictable" in a sense.  You know "waves" will respawn.  You just don't know how many, and how frigging long they're going to take to finish.  Every boss battle is identical-- you whittle down the boss' health to a certain level, it finds a way to avoid taking more damage, and spawns mobs around it.  Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

I actually like the game more than I anticipated, but the combat is just... ugh.  Game-wrecking.

[Anathemic]

Waves add depth? Lol wtf?

Because you know Tower Defense is so awesome

[Tankosaurus]

Anathemic wrote...

Waves add depth? Lol wtf?

Because you know Tower Defense is so awesome

I actually LOVE me somet TD, lol

[AtreiyaN7]

Tankosaurus wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

That's interesting considering how many people complained about static enemy placement in DA:O. I remember comments about combat being too predictable, too easy, not random enough, etc. Also, people complained that there weren't enough encounters. Apparently, they can't win no matter what they do.

if you read the entire post you would see the part where i said the spell nerfs where a nice touch, i actually agree with most of them.

hard CC and mages being OP were what made the first game too easy, and now they are not.

I read your whole post, what about it? I was only making an observation about the new random encounters/waves vis-a-vis comments people used to make about the limited random encounters, static enemy placement, etc. In other words, if you find <x> encounter, the enemies were always in the same exact place, etc.

[Karl45]

Waves + Ridiculous amount reused areas/battles(Oh Mercenaries again? Refreshing) is by far the worst thing about this game.

[Tankosaurus]

I read your whole post, what about it? I was only making an observation about the new random encounters/waves vis-a-vis comments people used to make about the limited random encounters, static enemy placement, etc. In other words, if you find <x> encounter, the enemies were always in the same exact place, etc.

the first game was nothign but random encounters, in fact I remember there being a random encounter that you werent ambushed in in which the main character could choose a dialogue option that was akin to "oh wow I get to ambush someone for once how refreshing"

If people were complaining about a lack of random encounters then they probably werent paying attention, if they were complaining about the game being easy then that is most likely because a 4 mage party was OP because heals/hard cc was OP in the first game

Now encounters are too random, every random encounter has a second and possibly third line of dudes just waiting on top of roofs to kill you, idk i just dont get it i guess.

[SnakeHelah]

Haha! You guys crying about waves of enemies? No more tactical stuff? Say what OP? What difficulty are you playing? Because Last time I Checked on Hard I pause the game very. Very. Often to issue commands.

[Tankosaurus]

SnakeHelah wrote...

Haha! You guys crying about waves of enemies? No more tactical stuff? Say what OP? What difficulty are you playing? Because Last time I Checked on Hard I pause the game very. Very. Often to issue commands.

maybe you shuold read the post before you troll it, im playing on nightmare, i pause the game often as well, explain how what oyu said is relevant or admit you are a fail-troll

[Cedius]

It adds the cheesy arcade style to it imo. Definitely thumbs down

[lizzbee]

SnakeHelah wrote...

Haha! You guys crying about waves of enemies? No more tactical stuff? 

Mostly, it's just boring.

[Tankosaurus]

Filament wrote...

The wave encounter set up is getting a bit old, yeah. The emphasis on archetypes makes it feel like it's at the expense of... characterization... like they designed the encounters based on what archetypes they wanted to have in them, not what kind of characters they wanted in them. All of these nameless superpowered commanders and assassins, where do they come from? Where did they learn such abilities? Where did they get these legions of mooks at their disposal and why can't I summon a legion of mooks of my own?

It works well enough for darkspawn, but for the rest it just feels weird.

Granted I think saying it makes the game "fail" is overblown... and as far as tactics and difficulty goes, it makes the game harder and more tactical IMO, not easier and less tactical. I'm talking about something else here.

good points, my main point is that waves of guys is simply lazy game design, it makes the game more difficult but in a way that makes the game less tactical and more "beat 'em up" and with long cc cooldowns on mages (which is why my next play through im going to make a hard rogue cc'er) you really cant just save your spells for every wave.

harder does not always mean more tactical, sometimes it just means frustrating, think battletoads.

[SnakeHelah]

lizzbee wrote...

SnakeHelah wrote...

Haha! You guys crying about waves of enemies? No more tactical stuff? 

Mostly, it's just boring.

I agree Especially on normal and higher where you take some time to blow them all up. But eh... Slow combat in Origins was also boring, So I kind of like the slash slash slash thing more than say, Run run run slash *wait 2 minutes* slash

[lizzbee]

Filament wrote...

The wave encounter set up is getting a bit old, yeah. The emphasis on archetypes makes it feel like it's at the expense of... characterization... like they designed the encounters based on what archetypes they wanted to have in them, not what kind of characters they wanted in them. All of these nameless superpowered commanders and assassins, where do they come from? Where did they learn such abilities? Where did they get these legions of mooks at their disposal and why can't I summon a legion of mooks of my own?

I'm still trying to figure out the archetype they're intending on the Wounded Coast.  First the wave of spiders, then the mabari hounds, and then apostates?  WTF?  So, you have a bunch of apostate mages just camping out on the beach, hanging out with their pet spiders and dogs?  Are they from Ferelden?  Do they have secret spider-controlling skills that I'm not allowed to have?  Don't the spiders want to eat the dogs and vice versa?

"Oi, Fido!  Got yerself caught in a web, didja?  I told ye not to filch Spidey's snack!"

[Vengeful Nature]

Hey, something's just occured to me. Compare this... sequence with DA2's combat. Especially around the 2 minute and then 4 minute mark.

Neo fights Smith clones in Matrix: Reloaded.

It's just as flashy, and also just as boring and devoid of depth.

Just an interesting comparison I just thought of.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 12 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[lizzbee]

SnakeHelah wrote...

lizzbee wrote...

Mostly, it's just boring.

I agree Especially on normal and higher where you take some time to blow them all up. But eh... Slow combat in Origins was also boring, So I kind of like the slash slash slash thing more than say, Run run run slash *wait 2 minutes* slash

I'm bored on Casual.  I can't even imagine how annoying and tedious Normal would be.

[Tankosaurus]

lizzbee wrote...

SnakeHelah wrote...

lizzbee wrote...

Mostly, it's just boring.

I agree Especially on normal and higher where you take some time to blow them all up. But eh... Slow combat in Origins was also boring, So I kind of like the slash slash slash thing more than say, Run run run slash *wait 2 minutes* slash

I'm bored on Casual.  I can't even imagine how annoying and tedious Normal would be.

nightmare cranks it up to frustration

[AtreiyaN7]

lizzbee wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

That's interesting considering how many people complained about static enemy placement in DA:O. I remember comments about combat being too predictable, too easy, not random enough, etc. Also, people complained that there weren't enough encounters. Apparently, they can't win no matter what they do.

I'm guessing these aren't the same people posting in this thread.  For the most part, I liked DA:O's combat.  It felt realistic.  It felt reasonably balanced.  You still had lots of random combat-- the ambushes, the spawned enemies in Orzammar, etc., but it wasn't overbearing and incessant like in this game.

And the fights are "predictable" in a sense.  You know "waves" will respawn.  You just don't know how many, and how frigging long they're going to take to finish.  Every boss battle is identical-- you whittle down the boss' health to a certain level, it finds a way to avoid taking more damage, and spawns mobs around it.  Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

I actually like the game more than I anticipated, but the combat is just... ugh.  Game-wrecking.

All encounters in DA:O  (even the random ones) were set in number, and the enemies were always in the exact same spot in the exact same numbers - even the "random" Orzammar attacks (I think - could be wrong). The waves of enemies in DA2 do appear in a predictable pattern, and I think the number of enemies is the same each time as well, but the difference between the two is that you're forced to react to the waves on the fly and can't rely on cheesy tactics like standing outside a room and just having your mages nuke the bejeezus out of my enemies. Sure, that was undeniably entertaining, but it wasn't much of a challenge if you were on your umpteenth run in DA:O (well, for me anyway, that got a bit old).