243 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

I actually like the wave mechanic. More bandits or spiders dropping from above are OK for some fights, or fresh mooks during a boss, it adds an element of unpredictability that I welcome.

But using it every.single.fight. sucks. If you want to increase encounter difficulty, give more abilities than auto-attack to ordinary enemies or something. As of now when the group I encounter is starting to fall, I always get my squishies close to melee, and almost every single time reinforcements do spawn directly where Varric and Anders were a few seconds ago. A concept that could have been interesting becomes stale and dull because of over-use. Pity.

[Atardecer]

The waves certainly are tedious are make combat really quite monotonous and boring after a time. The combat is the part of the game I actually like the least. Someone around here summed up this game nicely: Dynasty Wars with a city. Although I found Dynasty Wars more fun as it made no pretense to being an RPG. Dont get me started about the class restrictions. So a rogue never learnt how to hold an axe? So that bonus content I bought is unusable because my rogue also never learnt to hold a sword. Its not like this game is going to get a second playing as a warrior.

[Taritu]

I could even live with waves, if it wasn't for them spawning everywhere. Have them come in from one door, and not the one I came from. But yes, this is the part of the game I hate the most and I'm in the camp that says "a good game, just not a good bioware game."

But goddamn I hate the spawning.

Modifié par Taritu, 13 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[flushfire]

You people are dumb. Did you not know that waves = tactics. Mike Laidlaw himself said that DA2 is designed to be more tactical than Origins, he cannot be wrong in this.

Modifié par flushfire, 13 mars 2011 - 01:49 .

[Atardecer]

flushfire wrote...

You people are dumb. Did you not know that waves = tactics. Mike Laidlaw himself said that DA2 is designed to be more tactical than Origins, he cannot be wrong in this.

Honestly how much "tactics" are in this game. Sure place your mage in a certain place and cast heal and fireballs etc, ganag up on the leader etc. Its trivial in terms of what tactics are. At its essence, its just a point and click mash, and the tactics systems is there to try and hid that. Mike Laidlaw said many things, doesnt mean theyre even remotely true. Like he tried to fob off a re-using maps as an excuse for more content. Laziness.

Modifié par Atardecer, 13 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[mfmaxpower]

While DA2's combat may be more visually interesting, combat is far less satisfying than DA:O - DA2 combat is simply too fast for tactics to play as central a role as before.

I'm sure the change is great for some people but it certainly leads to a shallower experience.

[didymos1120]

electroban wrote...

Dragon Age 2: Jade Empire Addition

Standard Snark Post Eleventy-Billion: Wrong Word Edition.

[didymos1120]

double post due to forum downtime deleted.

Modifié par didymos1120, 13 mars 2011 - 11:46 .

[Tankosaurus]

mfmaxpower wrote...

While DA2's combat may be more visually interesting, combat is far less satisfying than DA:O - DA2 combat is simply too fast for tactics to play as central a role as before.

I'm sure the change is great for some people but it certainly leads to a shallower experience.

i agree, ive said from the start that the game has simply not lived up to my expectations of what a good strategy rpg should be, maybe its a good hacknslash game, but thats not the type of game that appeals to me.

[Naitaka]

Yes it's lame, but you can easily cheese the game with certain build. 100% cold resistence warrior + 2 mages with max out elemental tree, nightmare become a walk in the park, provided your game didn't bug out on you and make Hawke stuck in slow motion...

[Tankosaurus]

It's certainly better looking visually but there is a lot less depth to it. *Insert Obvious comparison to better looking woman with no personality*

[Apollo Taren]

I find myself wondering where they're managing to hide all the bodies I've left littered on the streets... Seriously, I must have made my own river of blood by now, right? Or is that where all of these random blood mages are getting their corpses from? Am I fueling my own tedious, repetitive battles here?

And where do all these bandits come from? I must've killed 70-80 bandits from one group in the first act alone. Are there more bandits in this city than there are regular civilians? Or guards for that matter?

More on topic, I don't mind the waves as a thought, but they did them wrong, and they did them wrong in 95% of the fights in the game. If maybe 50% of the fights during the game had a wave factor to them it would make it significantly better. It would be even better if it were only 25%. And to improve it further (it's been said before) they really should've made the enemies spawn ahead of you, not all around you. Seriously, I just cleared out the entire dungeon behind me. Where the hell are these extra random enemies coming from? Did you have them hiding in secret walls, waiting for me to pass just so you could summon them during a battle a little further ahead?

It's thrown in there as a way of making the game seem harder for no reason. My guess is that when they made the game "easier" they accidentally made it too easy, and as a quick fix they threw spawning enemies in to make it feel more difficult, but really it's only served to make it feel annoying and tedious. I was playing through on Nightmare/Hard initially, but turned it down to Easy and the Casual just because I was so freaking tired of it. Nothing was particularly difficult, it was just tedious and repetitive and pointless.

[cainx10a]

Dynasty Warriors: Dragon Age Edition. Just be glad KOEI worked with BioWare, their expertise helped! /sarcasm

... Yes ... I just had a vision of a thousand identical Hurlocks charging at me, with each of them sporting the same animation, waving their 'sward' (R.I.P Oren) above their skeletor heads.

Also, how does a giant sword slice a human being in hundred of tiny cubes of meat with just one strike?

Modifié par cainx10a, 13 mars 2011 - 12:32 .

[Aimshyn]

I'm glad that there is already a thread about this and everything I wanted to get out of system has been mentioned before so *bump*

The waves didn't really add any dynamic to the combat, it is just annoying. Not because it is to difficult but rather "10% boss life to go and then...*spawning twelve mobs*...jeeeeeesus, again?!"

Totally ruins the combat experience for me, I don't need to kill 30 enemies in one fight to feel great, but since we have to play the champion it's obviously what a champion needs to do.

Give me a boss or elite, 8 guards and I am set and know what I am facing and I can enjoy that.

Well, back to the "Hello, I am a henchma...*dies*" - guys...

[theenigma77]

So many times while on nightmare, everyone but me will be down with one mob left, I think oh thank the maker, I'm gonna win. He goes down, I have a sliver of health, 10 more red dots appear on mini map. FUUUUUU

[SendarkCh]

The real problem is not the waves themselves, but that aggro mechanics make it impossible for a tank to bring them under control.See here:

Dear BioWare - Please Fix Taunt

Modifié par SendarkCh, 13 mars 2011 - 01:17 .

[Vmode]

cainx10a wrote...

Dynasty Warriors: Dragon Age Edition. Just be glad KOEI worked with BioWare, their expertise helped! /sarcasm

I knew I couldn't have been the only one who thought that! As I'd played the game for a while I just went "Huh, I'm getting some serious Dynasty Warriors déjà vu here".

On topic: I find the varying waves kind of annoying. You scout the enemy, plan accordingly and execute your strategy. But if the game is going to keep yanking out new enemies from some hidden monster closet whenever it feels like it then any claim it makes for having any sort of strategic gameplay is all but completely erased.

[Teh Chozen Wun]

Atardecer wrote...

flushfire wrote...

You people are dumb. Did you not know that waves = tactics. Mike Laidlaw himself said that DA2 is designed to be more tactical than Origins, he cannot be wrong in this.

Honestly how much "tactics" are in this game. Sure place your mage in a certain place and cast heal and fireballs etc, ganag up on the leader etc. Its trivial in terms of what tactics are. At its essence, its just a point and click mash, and the tactics systems is there to try and hid that. Mike Laidlaw said many things, doesnt mean theyre even remotely true. Like he tried to fob off a re-using maps as an excuse for more content. Laziness.

Uhmm... why would you gang up on the leader first? You gotta kill the mobs before even touching the leader. Obviously. 

[Darji]

-waves and inivisible spwans are just a cheap way to make it more difficult. So if you dont want to spend alot of time on balancing or intereting and tactical combat you use this method. These waves are just another evidence that Dragon Age 2 was a rushed job.

[Arppis]

While waves are pretty daunting, it actualy stimulates what might happen in real combat sittulations. Enemies might get reinforcements. But yeah, I wish they would tone it down a bit.

[Darji]

Arppis wrote...

While waves are pretty daunting, it actualy stimulates what might happen in real combat sittulations. Enemies might get reinforcements. But yeah, I wish they would tone it down a bit.

Yeah these invisible reinforcements are so realistic. I see these alot in real fights where they just fall out of the sky XD

[archonsod]

Vmode wrote...
On topic: I find the varying waves kind of annoying. You scout the enemy, plan accordingly and execute your strategy. But if the game is going to keep yanking out new enemies from some hidden monster closet whenever it feels like it then any claim it makes for having any sort of strategic gameplay is all but completely erased.

 It's perfectly possible to formulate strategies when the disposition of the enemy is unknown. In fact most military commanders rely on it.

 The spawn positions are the main problem. Having them enter from a corridor or similar is fine. Having them rappel down a building into the middle of the fight is fine. Having them materialise from thin air stood right next to my mage is cheating.

[AkiKishi]

In sooo bored I'm even thinking of sticking it casual just to get it over with. Every combat plays out more or less the same way. The only exceptions are the scripted boss battles.

I just did one of the companion quests and a group of slavers just materialised ontop of me. I was in the doorway shooting arrows. They did not come from any dirction, I could see those, and they were not stealth mobs. So anyone who is saying waves are "realistic" is just plain wrong.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 13 mars 2011 - 02:38 .

[Arppis]

Darji wrote...

Arppis wrote...

While waves are pretty daunting, it actualy stimulates what might happen in real combat sittulations. Enemies might get reinforcements. But yeah, I wish they would tone it down a bit.

Yeah these invisible reinforcements are so realistic. I see these alot in real fights where they just fall out of the sky XD

Haha, well they have to come from somewhere! Better that, than from some dragons buttocks!

To be frank, some doorway that opens would have been a better choice.

Modifié par Arppis, 13 mars 2011 - 03:18 .

[DirtyRich]

Ok, first off, let's clear up the obvious confusion regarding strategy and tactics for those who feel their 1337 collection of military- and combat-based video games gives them qualifications equal to those graduating from West Point-

Strategy is use of military means (usually combat, but also including deployments, subterfuge, etc) to achieve an overall goal. It does not occur on a battlefield, but instead in a whole field of war. The closest thing I've seen to strategy in the series was the choices on where to send troops in Amaranthine and whether to defend Vigil's Keep or Amaranthine in DAO: Awakening.

Tactics is pretty much anything that is done prior to or during battle to win by the actual combatants. So whether you're setting up SOTC on unwitting enemies in a room or adapting to accommodate enemies being created from thin air by a higher power (the waves prove that the Maker must exist), you are using tactics.


My gripe is this. Forget the philosophical debates about the tactical or environmental realism (repeated maps) in the game. This game is a sequel to a VERY popular and successful game. It was successful for a reason... despite whatever shortcomings, players loved it. Players such as myself will be buying, even preordering, the game solely based upon the DA name on it, trusting that it will give us the same enjoyment as the original.
Bioware broke my trust. I understand their goal to improve the 'faults' of the original. I understand their desire to make more profits. I understand the pressure that EA put on them to keep to a certain release date.
Bioware made the decision to cater more to the GOW crowd...they either failed to understand that some critiques are true criticism and others are simply based in a desire to have a game play like another, or they chose marketability to attract a 'wider' base. Hence the wave mechanics and the increased 'flash' of the game.
Either way, I was expecting something similar to DA:O not just in lore, but also in gameplay. I did not get that.The game has lost its fun. Combat is either frustrating or boring. It completely interrupts the story, which is the strongest asset to the series.
I will not be preordering DA3 when it becomes available, nor will I give Bioware that trust in any future game series. My guess is that there are many gamers like me who will deny Bioware and EA those profits, waiting until the game is out for a while and eventually picking up a discounted or clearanced copy at Target.