243 réponses à ce sujet

[Tankosaurus]

I think about the time i beat the rock wraith on nightmare after a 25 minute fight I realized this game just isn't any fun anymore

[Neversleeping]

Waves just for the sake of waves makes it feel very impersonal end generic. It's okay when it's thematically sound and the situation requires it, for example when facing an endless army of darkspawn and you try to hang on. But when I face some ruffians on the streets and lay to waste 40 broken bodies each and every time it all gets obscene. And irritating.
Can't the enemies just sometimes be stronger and fewer, us against them, our tactics and skill against theirs? It would feel much more real and immersive.

Reinforcements should be a special event, not an everytime thing.

Modifié par Neversleeping, 14 mars 2011 - 08:31 .

[Matroska]

I do agree that it can sometimes be a bit annoying when you think you're about to win and then a new wave of enemies spawns. It does seem to function well as something that keeps you on your toes, though. Since DA2, like Origins, has an MMO-style aggro-based battle system, new enemies spawning mid-battle with reset aggro levels does keep it more challenging than if you had 4 people with large health bars that you could just taunt endlessly and keep them only attacking your tank for the whole time. It would just turn into a game of tennis where you alternate between taunting with the tank and mind blasting with the mage.

[Yzzid]

I really, really hated the materializing of ennemy out of thin air... it feels forced, not logical (seriously, some spawn from dead end or materialize on top of your party).

It sucked all the fun out of nightmare for me.

It really feels like a cheap way to lenghten the game. Some battle having waves, I can understand. But all of them?

[Neversleeping]

if you had 4 people with
large health bars that you could just taunt endlessly and keep them
only attacking your tank for the whole time. It would just turn into a
game of tennis where you alternate between taunting with the tank and
mind blasting with the mage.

Waves is not the only solution to the (non-existant) problem you describe.

Modifié par Neversleeping, 14 mars 2011 - 08:52 .

[Aleoi]

 I wouldn't mind the waves so much if I didn't see them spawn out of thin air, which is rather immersion breaking, rather then them running in from the numerous doorways, paths, and corners.

[Bachmors]

I agree ... enemies falling out of thin air are stupid. It destroys immersion and makes fights frustrating.

Modifié par Bachmors, 14 mars 2011 - 09:04 .

[DeepRazor]

lol..tell me what else DA2 havent failed at..

Modifié par DeepRazor, 14 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[SorrowAndJoy7]

Tankosaurus wrote...

I think about the time i beat the rock wraith on nightmare after a 25 minute fight I realized this game just isn't any fun anymore

Sounds like Nightmare has broken you, just like a good hardest difficulty with the name NIGHTMARE should...

[Piecake]

I have no problem with a second or a third wave of enemies coming to attack you. What I do have a problem with is if that happens all of the time, like it did in DA2. Waves of enemies should be used sporadically and only in places that make sense - like when everything is completely chaotic, because then it would actually make sense.

Having waves for 95% of the battles gets really old, tiring and predictable. If waves were only present for like 30% of those battles, I think it would have worked well and would have kept you on your toes. It would make the waves be meaningful and stressful, instead of predictable.

[Legbiter]

I like the new combat system, I have to quick pause and reposition my mage as required. Also rogue enemies aren't a joke like they were in DA:O they can actually knock out my mage with a single backstab.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

Personally, I love the waves... Dragon Age Origins Nightmare difficulty was ridiculously easy. It wasn't a nightmare at all. You're complaining about having to trial and error through fights, which is exactly the way it should be on -Nightmare-.

Having a set number of foes which are there immediately makes it ridiculously easy to control the fight. It was this single factor that ruined Origins nightmare. People can claim that waves aren't tactical, but sadly this is an excuse for those who lack the tactical awareness to be able to handle an evolving encounter over a predictable encounter.

But in the end I think the Dev's should take topics like this as a win... It wouldn't be nightmare if people weren't compelled to complain about it. A nightmare that doesn't invoke mass complaints is an ego stroking failure rather than a challenging test for those who want to push themselves and have to occasionally trial and error for the sake of making success feel all the more satisfying.

[mesmerizedish]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

Tankosaurus wrote...

I think about the time i beat the rock wraith on nightmare after a 25 minute fight I realized this game just isn't any fun anymore

Sounds like Nightmare has broken you, just like a good hardest difficulty with the name NIGHTMARE should...

Yeah, that's kinda the point of nightmare. If you don't want to spend 25 minutes fighting the rock wraith, maybe you should play on an easier setting.

I've been playing on hard my whole time. I'm at 37 hours, toward the end of Act II, and the rock wraith was the only fight I've had to do on Normal. It was such a ****

[Merwanor]

Love the combat through and through.

[MaglorArcanist]

Waves of enemy are only filling fight, if you leave the waves, the game can be shorted by 1,5 hours of gameplay.

A wave can be a good thing in some case, but in the majority of case are 5 bandits with 30 men near to reinforce them... silly thing, and a bit stupid.

[TehMerc]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

Tankosaurus wrote...

I think about the time i beat the rock wraith on nightmare after a 25 minute fight I realized this game just isn't any fun anymore

Sounds like Nightmare has broken you, just like a good hardest difficulty with the name NIGHTMARE should...

Yeah, that's kinda the point of nightmare. If you don't want to spend 25 minutes fighting the rock wraith, maybe you should play on an easier setting.

I've been playing on hard my whole time. I'm at 37 hours, toward the end of Act II, and the rock wraith was the only fight I've had to do on Normal. It was such a ****

Yeah, honestly, not sure why anyone plays on nightmare other than a need for personal pride, hard typically challenges you just enough without going over the edge into frustration.

I LOVED the rock wraith on hard, it just took some time to learn when to burst with haste and other attacks. Not sure how I'm gonna cope with a certain event. Merrill is nice, but Heal is pretty awesome.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

TehMerc wrote...

Yeah, honestly, not sure why anyone plays on nightmare other than a need for personal pride, hard typically challenges you just enough without going over the edge into frustration.

I LOVED the rock wraith on hard, it just took some time to learn when to burst with haste and other attacks. Not sure how I'm gonna cope with a certain event. Merrill is nice, but Heal is pretty awesome.

I play on it cause I find it more challenging. It's not about pride, i'm not gonna go tweet or facebook or brag to friends about beating the game on nightmare... It just for me personally, makes 1. the game last longer which, i've waited over a year for this game so I want it to last as long as it can. 2. More fulfilling when I finally do get to the end.

[mesmerizedish]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

I play on it cause I find it more challenging. It's not about pride, i'm not gonna go tweet or facebook or brag to friends about beating the game on nightmare... It just for me personally, makes 1. the game last longer which, i've waited over a year for this game so I want it to last as long as it can. 2. More fulfilling when I finally do get to the end.

This. And it pisses me off when people come into threads like this and complain about the games not fun because it took so long to beat this boss on nightmare QQ.

[snackrat]

To be honest I find the concepts of waves in the first place kind of weird, in particular in a setting without electronic communications technology - thereby making calling for reinforcements all but impossible.


If those soldiers/mercs were on hand the whole time, then why did they wait until their boss' health reached a certain point before joining? Because surely just attacking your enemy in small, easily dispatched groups is a Great Idea.

If, on the other hand, the soldiers/mercs were elsewhere during the attack, how did they know their boss needed backup? Or have the qunari gotten around to inventing walkie-talkies now? Then again, maybe they were standing outside and heard the commotion... and then waited until the health was almost gone.


Waves in the deep roads crawling with darkspawn make more sense - they're just wandering around and they stumble across you. But hired mercs...? Sounds to me like someone isn't doing their job properly.

Enemy waves can make for more interesting fights if used sparingly in the game. The whole point of additional waves is that they force you to adapt. Change strategies. If every single fight guarantees more waves, that element is lost, and you find yourself using the same tactics over and over to deal with an issue that is as best, annoying, and at worst, makes people unwilling to finish the game. (No, really.)

Modifié par Karsciyin, 14 mars 2011 - 10:01 .

[iLogic]

It makes you wonder how blights ever happen. There are enough bandits in this city alone to wipe out any standing army in Ferelden. And an expedition into the deep roads to find shiny loot? Have you seen the size of these bandit armies? How haven't they cleaned out all the darkspawn in the deep roads, mapped it out entirely, and taken EVERYTHING. What's going to stand in their way? They out number Cailans army and the dark spawn army in DA1 COMBINED!

[Tankosaurus]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

Tankosaurus wrote...

I think about the time i beat the rock wraith on nightmare after a 25 minute fight I realized this game just isn't any fun anymore

Sounds like Nightmare has broken you, just like a good hardest difficulty with the name NIGHTMARE should...

games shouldnt 'break' you.  a well designed game is challenging and still fun, every game in the disgaea series comes to mind, as well as baldurs gate 2.

there are certain 'tricks' you can see developers use to make a game more difficult that doesnt really increase the amount of thought you have to put into the game.  I've seen this game use a lot of them which is a tad disappointing.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Ensgnblack wrote...

so you want it to require more strategy, but hate the strayegy required to face unknown foes in waves? waves give the enoucnters more depth. you have to not blow all your cd's at once and be ready for more

No, they're silly.  There are several places where generic mob (no stealth, not assassins, etc) enemies appear IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR PARTY. 

I overlook them because I'm enjoying the game, but they're still absolutely pathetic game design.

[Darian Tylmare]

Like some other people wrote I think there are just too much waves. Ok, once every while is ok but everytime is annyoing.
However I understand why they are in the game in the first place. With the now far faster combat and relatively strong skills fight without waves would last only a minute or two. So the waves are an essential part of the new combat mechanic.
Doesn't mean there aren't any other solutions to this.

[4love]

Tankosaurus wrote...

I realize this is like the umpteenth topic on this but I have to say something otherwise my frustration with trying to play this game on nightmare will spill out into real life.

Why oh god why are there waves of enemies in this game? it takes the tactical fun right out of the game because you cant plan ahead.  It makes the game boil down to trial and error/load game bs.  This is not challenging its just cheesy and frustrating.

I can live with spells getting nerfed because they needed to, I love the class tree changes and the item reworkings, but the waves just kill it for me, a definite step backwards.

Not to mention many "challenging" fights are decided in the first 10 seconds where if you can kill the main threat (mage/named character/assassin) then you might be able to make it out alive.

If i wanted to play devil may cry with medieval skins I would have bought Dante's Inferno

TL:DR op's a broken record, just had to say something otherwise brain bleed would ensue.

Mike Laidlaw:FIGHT LIKE A SPARTAN AND THINK LIKE A GENERAL.LOL

[Cade90]

You want to know why there are waves?
More enemies = more buttons = more awesome