243 réponses à ce sujet

[mariosgh]

I agree with op. Waves of enemies and recycling of locations ruins this game.

[Seival]

Waves of enemies are step forward. Combat becomes more intresting (especially on nightmare) if you don't know how many people exactly you have to fight. This forces you to manualy control characters instead of using their AI, and choose targets carefully.

I like new combat. DA:O combat was boring.

[Snelle Jaap]

Enemy waves made me turned my game to Casual, i just want to get it over with and do the Story...
But yeah enemy waves did not work for me.

[BY-TOR STORMDRAGON]

...I will agree, it is a bit tedious, but very seldom unexpected...DA:O showed at least a heads up view of red enemies ahead on the map. But so far, I am just in a bloodbath, and I don't like that in a RPG anyway. Leave it to the shooter games. But so far, the good outweighs the bad, despite some glitches I have that others don't- and it feels at times when I cannot use a poultice, that I have a "BETA" version. So far though, I am just carving through everything...and enjoying the eye-candy. I was at 100 hours at the end of DA:O, I hope I don't spit blood all the way through this game. Too many fanboys of other titles demanded crap in this RPG that shouldn't be here.

[Nightnight]

Waves of enemies make the game more difficult. Not tactically but rather cheaply. There's nothing that make me more frustrated than having enemies spawning right on top of my mages or archers and killing them in seconds.

[Akitoscorpio]

Wait, Nightmare is *hard*? Who the hell knew?

[Syagre]

Personally, I've also been rather annoyed by the "enemy waves" (playing in hard mode), because you cannot really plan how you are going to carry out your battle.
However, my biggest gripe is not about the idea of the enemy waves, but rather that enemies are literally poping out from nowhere. If, during the battle, the additional waves could be seen as arriving from somewhere (including that on the map, too), the concept would be more acceptable.
I don't mind having some elements of surprise in a battle, but it gets annoying when it always plays against you.

[PSRdirector]

This and the dungeon reuse are my top two complains that make this game inferior to the firsst, still a good fun game just inferior to the first. I love to dragon age mythos and the cheapness of the 2nd game (as in it feels like it was made on the cheap) is disappointing. Waves of enemies breaks the immersion every time, am I to believe the roofs are just crowded with people waiting to jump down, and why dont they all jump down at once, they would have a much better chance of winning if all the waves came at once. Have them all come at once or not come at all.

[Nithrakis Arcanius]

Waves are a big negative for me. It gets boring rather quickly (I'm playing on hard with the PC version).

[bellondroneous]

The folks who claim that waves add depth are ignoring the fundamental problem with this game's implementation: how do six archers materialize out of thin air in the middle of a wide open plaza? Why didn't anyone spot them before? Are they burrowing archers?

It's non-sensical, it's not internally consistent and it removes tactical depth. Period. It's just a cheap way to make fights harder.

If the waves spewed forth from some reasonable source every time, I wouldn't be in this thread complaining. Except that the enemies attack in waves Every. Single. Fight. Are the developers serious with this crap? How many fights are there in this game that DON'T have waves? Two? Three?

My method for every encounter is as follows: Rogue walks way ahead and triggers the encounter. Then my entire party runs back halfway across the map and sets up in an area well away from the encounter's spawn area. Then we take on the waves as they charge us. When the first wave is dead, the rogue runs back and agros the second wave, etc. I do this every single fight. It's time consuming and it's tedious and it takes the joy out of fighting because every fight is the same. But I do it because it's the only way to play this game without screaming in frustration at the developers who would rather take shortcuts then follow the rules of their own world.

[Darian Tylmare]

Sorry, wrong thread!
But as stated earlier, the waves are a symptom of the new battle system.

Modifié par Darian Tylmare, 14 mars 2011 - 05:32 .

[Chaseroy]

I like the waves. It's challenging and it's fun.

Bear in mind that you shouldn't just stand in the middle of an open area as enemies continue to spawn. You need to use the environment to your advantage, like chokepoints. That is the difference between casual/normal and hard/nightmare. On the easier difficulites you can just stand there and hack away. On the harder ones you must use tactics to win.

[Chaseroy]

bellondroneous wrote...

The folks who claim that waves add depth are ignoring the fundamental problem with this game's implementation: how do six archers materialize out of thin air in the middle of a wide open plaza? Why didn't anyone spot them before? Are they burrowing archers?

It's non-sensical, it's not internally consistent and it removes tactical depth. Period. It's just a cheap way to make fights harder.

If the waves spewed forth from some reasonable source every time, I wouldn't be in this thread complaining. Except that the enemies attack in waves Every. Single. Fight. Are the developers serious with this crap? How many fights are there in this game that DON'T have waves? Two? Three?

My method for every encounter is as follows: Rogue walks way ahead and triggers the encounter. Then my entire party runs back halfway across the map and sets up in an area well away from the encounter's spawn area. Then we take on the waves as they charge us. When the first wave is dead, the rogue runs back and agros the second wave, etc. I do this every single fight. It's time consuming and it's tedious and it takes the joy out of fighting because every fight is the same. But I do it because it's the only way to play this game without screaming in frustration at the developers who would rather take shortcuts then follow the rules of their own world.

What you're describing is tactical depth.  If you find it boring then play it less safe.  You can employ the same tactics without having such a long distance between the spawning point and your staging area.  Doorways work wonders in this regard.

[Chaseroy]

Omg this forum and its douoble posts...

Modifié par Chaseroy, 14 mars 2011 - 06:09 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

I just wanted to chime in and express my dislike of the out-of-nowhere spawning waves.

[TileToad]

Isn't it called nightmare mode for a reason?

[Eventide]

I completely agree, it's tedious, mind-numbing, and just not fun. No idea why they implemented it, I guess they wanted to create the illusion that the game is longer.

[Bostur]

Chaseroy wrote...
What you're describing is tactical depth.  If you find it boring then play it less safe.  You can employ the same tactics without having such a long distance between the spawning point and your staging area.  Doorways work wonders in this regard.

Having one tactic isn't much depth I think. Tactical depth could be if NPCs responded in a sensible way and lobbed a fireball into the choke point. Or they could set up an ambush in a way so that there is no cover, and the player had to gain ground to get to a defensible position.

Then as players we would be faced with real decisions. Do we fight in the open and hope our superiour firepower is enough, or do we try to advance taking more damage, but hoping we can fight from a better position.


Things like that did happen sometimes in DA:O. Sure there was a lot of door camping possible, but there was also much more interesting setups. Quite a few times I was in fights were trying to get that mage down was key to success. In DA2 Ive learned to ignore them because they will just teleport about if I try to attack.

One choice isn't choice at all.

[Chaseroy]

Bostur wrote...

Chaseroy wrote...
What you're describing is tactical depth.  If you find it boring then play it less safe.  You can employ the same tactics without having such a long distance between the spawning point and your staging area.  Doorways work wonders in this regard.

Having one tactic isn't much depth I think. Tactical depth could be if NPCs responded in a sensible way and lobbed a fireball into the choke point. Or they could set up an ambush in a way so that there is no cover, and the player had to gain ground to get to a defensible position.

Then as players we would be faced with real decisions. Do we fight in the open and hope our superiour firepower is enough, or do we try to advance taking more damage, but hoping we can fight from a better position.


Things like that did happen sometimes in DA:O. Sure there was a lot of door camping possible, but there was also much more interesting setups. Quite a few times I was in fights were trying to get that mage down was key to success. In DA2 Ive learned to ignore them because they will just teleport about if I try to attack.

One choice isn't choice at all.

A.  Me using a tactic as an example does not mean that it's the only tactic in the game.

B.  I'm really starting to think DA2 haters played a different DAO than I did.  The tactics in that game were incredibly one-dimensional and heavily mage favored. 

This game has SO much variety in how to approach a given encounter based on party compostion and skills chosen.  DAO combat centered around like 2 spells.

[Bostur]

Chaseroy wrote...

A.  Me using a tactic as an example does not mean that it's the only tactic in the game.

B.  I'm really starting to think DA2 haters played a different DAO than I did.  The tactics in that game were incredibly one-dimensional and heavily mage favored. 

This game has SO much variety in how to approach a given encounter based on party compostion and skills chosen.  DAO combat centered around like 2 spells.

A. bellondroneous' claim is that he can use one tactic all the time and get away with it, and I tend to agree with him. I also agree that trying other options gets punished rather severely.

B. I'm getting that feeling as well. Maybe thats due to differences on platforms. A lot of positive reviews talk about necessary changes and almost a revolution in design. I see almost the exact same engine used much less creatively in a way that accentuates the shortcomings. They were present in DA:O as well, but due to level design and other variables they didn't have as much impact. The confined spaces in DA2 makes it hard for the AI to navigate, and the random spawns makes planning ahead almost pointless.
Also DA2 has a few new bugs or inconveniences making tactical movement much harder, for instance the fact that commands get cancelled when someone is stunned.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

aww
too much of a noob to take care of enemy waves?
its not the game that failed you
its you that failed the game.

[Chaseroy]

Maybe thats due to differences on platforms. A lot of positive reviews talk about necessary changes and almost a revolution in design. I see almost the exact same engine used much less creatively in a way that accentuates the shortcomings. They were present in DA:O as well, but due to level design and other variables they didn't have as much impact. The confined spaces in DA2 makes it hard for the AI to navigate, and the random spawns makes planning ahead almost pointless.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.  I'm a  PC gaming elitist keyboard and mouse snob (I say that a little tongue and cheek but I haven't played a console in 8 years) and I am enjoying this game so much more than the original on a tactical level.

Also DA2 has a few new bugs or inconveniences making tactical movement much harder, for instance the fact that commands get cancelled when someone is stunned.

I do agree with you here.  For example, while I don't mind and do understand the reasoning behind the removal of isometric view, some better camera controls and targeting commands in place of it for the PC would have been womderful.  I've definitely had a couple frustrating moments as a result.

Still, that's a digression from the topic at hand:  waves of enemies. Like it or not, I just don't see how this makes the game less strategic or tactical.

Modifié par Chaseroy, 14 mars 2011 - 06:52 .

[AkiKishi]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

aww
too much of a noob to take care of enemy waves?
its not the game that failed you
its you that failed the game.

Once you realise what spawns a wave, which takes not very long, the whole wave mechanic is a bit of a joke.

[Bostur]

Chaseroy wrote...
Still, that's a digression from the topic at hand:  waves of enemies. Like it or not, I just don't see how this makes the game less strategic or tactical.

The basic claim is that enemies spawning at random makes it impossible to plan ahead, one of the core fundamentals of tactical gameplay.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

BobSmith101 wrote...

GreyWarden36 wrote...

aww
too much of a noob to take care of enemy waves?
its not the game that failed you
its you that failed the game.

Once you realise what spawns a wave, which takes not very long, the whole wave mechanic is a bit of a joke.

Exactly