48 réponses à ce sujet

[QarcHoniC]

JoxerNL wrote...

I love how so many people slam on tanking, ever looked at some of the rogue talents?
Ever tried using them?
Yeah thought so, i use em and my tank has solid aggro.

I Agree, the rogue has some really key talents that help youre team out a lot in terms of aggro. 
If you spec that way anyhow ^^

[JoxerNL]

Noviere wrote...

JoxerNL wrote...

Actually no, this aint a single player game, or at least i dont think your getting what people mean with the term  "single player game" as it is used here.
Diablo is a single player game, you play 1 character, use all of their abilities and thats it.
DA2 you run around as a group, perhaps the term "single player" is perhaps a little badly chosen, i would say a term like single vs multy character RPG would be better fitting.

It is, in fact, a single-player game. The player is the person playing the game. I think what you're trying to say is that it is a party-based game, not a single-character game.

I wassnt the one who named it as such
hence why i said the term was badly chosen.

[JoxerNL]

QarcHoniC wrote...

JoxerNL wrote...

I love how so many people slam on tanking, ever looked at some of the rogue talents?
Ever tried using them?
Yeah thought so, i use em and my tank has solid aggro.

I Agree, the rogue has some really key talents that help youre team out a lot in terms of aggro. 
If you spec that way anyhow ^^

Im glad more people are finding these tricks out.
Maybe it's me comming from a broader perspective of the rogue in a party instead of the usuall thought of rogues are just DPS.
Since i played alot of traditional RPG's where a rogue was alot more then dps and more centered at being the most helpfull for the party as possible while putting out high DPS.

[Jarlaxlecq]

I love it how people will play completely broken cheesy builds in Origins, and then think they come off as some tactical genies. DA2 at least in that regard is a much better balanced game.

[GodBID]

1: Stop thinking this is DA:O because in DA:O my Arcane Warrior/Mage could walk through anything on nightmare and laugh
2: Use pause very activly
3: Micromanage all your companions
4: CC and Debuffs are your friend

[nuclearpengu1nn]

just play on Casual until you get the hang of it
then play it on higher difficulties when you're pro at it

[Samham]

To OP, I'd have to agree with you if you had problems with Nightmare difficulty (rogues having 5x more health than my warrior hawke, LOL) because everything does 100% friendly fire damage there, but in hard, just use all your AOEs. Having Hawke as a two-handed warrior its **** easy to deal out massive damage in the beginning of the fight. Run in, smack some of the low lvl baddies so everyone clusters in front of you, Mighty blow, Scythe and Whirlwind. Or, if you feel fancy, cone of cold on all the enemies while they're targetting your warrior, then as described above. Also, don't fight in the open, backtrack to a tighter spot, so those ****** reinforcements don't swarm you.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Graunt wrote...

AmunRa wrote...

Graunt wrote...

JoxerNL wrote...

I love how so many people slam on tanking, ever looked at some of the rogue talents?
Ever tried using them?
Yeah thought so, i use em and my tank has solid aggro.

Yes, it's wonderful having to dump points into threat abilities of a damage dealing class to help the tank class do what it should be doing already but is incompetent at it.

If you want easy mode, change it to Casual.

What a wonderfully typical reply from someone who "doesn't get it".

any mmorpg/rpg usualy has some form of abilities for dps classes to dump
agro on a tank, this is nothing new and the fact bioware went this
route in DA2 is a good thing imo. You can't just focus all dps becuase
you'll agro(which makes sense) therefor you need something like
stealth(which is only 1 point) or goad(which is 2) which for you main
char isn't that big of a deal.

This isn't an MMORPG, it's a single player game.  The direction they went with the game doesn't make any sense at all.  Do you even understand how ill equipped Aveline is for "threat"?  She literally has none at all.

just sounds like you and the OP need to l2p

Again, if you have no idea what you're talking about, don't bother replying.  In your case, you have no idea at all what I'm talking about.  Let me rephrase it in a way you'll understand: Since when was it everyone elses BUT THE TANK'S responsibility to control threat?  Whey do you think so many people are ignoring SnS altogether and just going with two-handed DPS builds to "tank" with?

Fearful Synergy, and a single other character in melee range make it impossible for any tank to lose aggro on a target without a stun or other threat reset coming into play.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 14 mars 2011 - 09:53 .

[Darqion]

Well thanks for all the replies. Got a little war going, nice

SO ye i put it on normal for one or two fights... learning a little bit more every step of the way and unlearning bad DAo habits. Restarted as a rogue just to check it out and stuff already feels easier as well, but that might just be me

Anyway sorry for having a opening post like some scrub, it really just me having the mindset of this being a sequel while it doesn't really play like the first at all. Guess i`ll just have to play a bit more careful... but im getting there, slowly but certain

[PulmonaryRex]

Agent_Dark_ wrote...

Graunt wrote...

JoxerNL wrote...

I love how so many people slam on tanking, ever looked at some of the rogue talents?
Ever tried using them?
Yeah thought so, i use em and my tank has solid aggro.

Yes, it's wonderful having to dump points into threat abilities of a damage dealing class to help the tank class do what it should be doing already but is incompetent at it.

since when has threat ever been the sole responsibility of the tank in an aggro based combat system?

just sounds like you and the OP need to l2p

Pfffffft.. I don't manage my aggro... /sarcasm. Lrn2tank

[Arllekin]

about the countless waves, i normally hold my group and take them away from the respaw area, deal with them and send the tank to lure the waves, this way i can cluster the enemys and made them fight were i want, not the other way around.

Modifié par Arllekin, 14 mars 2011 - 11:56 .

[Spartansfan8888]

Use other team members to help someone who is getting pinned down and can't move. Even hitting the enemy with something like stonefist can give your teammate time to run away and use a potion

[Tyrith]

Graunt wrote...

Again, if you have no idea what you're talking about, don't bother replying.  In your case, you have no idea at all what I'm talking about.  Let me rephrase it in a way you'll understand: Since when was it everyone elses BUT THE TANK'S responsibility to control threat?  Whey do you think so many people are ignoring SnS altogether and just going with two-handed DPS builds to "tank" with?

Personally i never had problems with Averline holding aggro the only problem i ever had was getting all the enemies onto her in the first place because most groups start very spread out, although that was easily fixed with some micro management.

I actually have more problems holding aggro as a 2hand dps build because of lacking taunt and battle synergy, although enemies generally die fast enough anyway because of the massive aoe damage but the high health enemies tend to not stick to me even with the burst a 2hand warrior can put out.

I haven't finished my 2hand tank playthrough yet but averline tanked the rock wraith much more effectively than my 2hand warrior did

[Kileyan]

Tyrith wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Again, if you have no idea what you're talking about, don't bother replying.  In your case, you have no idea at all what I'm talking about.  Let me rephrase it in a way you'll understand: Since when was it everyone elses BUT THE TANK'S responsibility to control threat?  Whey do you think so many people are ignoring SnS altogether and just going with two-handed DPS builds to "tank" with?

Personally i never had problems with Averline holding aggro the only problem i ever had was getting all the enemies onto her in the first place because most groups start very spread out, although that was easily fixed with some micro management.

I actually have more problems holding aggro as a 2hand dps build because of lacking taunt and battle synergy, although enemies generally die fast enough anyway because of the massive aoe damage but the high health enemies tend to not stick to me even with the burst a 2hand warrior can put out.

I haven't finished my 2hand tank playthrough yet but averline tanked the rock wraith much more effectively than my 2hand warrior did

Avenline only holds aggro via the tuant skill pretty much, where as any two handed warrior can rush group to group with with wide reaching larger aoe damage of two handed weapons and grabbed mass aggro fast to bunch things up. That makes up for the ability to soak 20 percent more damage by being a zero damage sword and board tank.

As for the Wraith, anyone with a bunch of con can tank it, most of the trick is knowing when to move, not taking the damage. Even then, any warrior spec can take to 1 deep talent that is on a 15 second cooldown, that can make you totally immune to damage for 5 or 10 seconds. That pretty much is the hefty part of the tanking scene, unless your group is built around low damage and really long battles.

I lilke Aveline, but i played a two handed party member as my main tank, after my traditional Avaline sword and board main tank first play. I don't know how to say it more clearly, after Avaline, a 2 handed sword tank felt like cheating, it was that much easier. Add in another 2 handed warrior, and you may as well design the rest of the party around their combos or just heal/buff them passivelly , you need nothing else. 2-handed warriors are that good at offense and nearly as good at defense.

Modifié par Kileyan, 15 mars 2011 - 05:08 .

[Tyrith]

Kileyan wrote...

Avenline only holds aggro via the tuant skill pretty much, 

That and Fearful synergy, you would be surprised how well she can hold hate with smart placement of party members.

Where as unless i semi gimp the 2hand builds damage, grabbing and holding aggro becomes very tedious.

Not saying the 2hand build is bad its amazingly fun but it doesn't tank better than averline atleast not early-mid game (as i said i haven't finished my playthrough), what it does excel at is destroying large packs of enemies in a very short amount of time so there is no need to tank.

And on single target enemies as long as you have a melee + averline or even just stick a ranged dps close enough, the boss will literally never move from the tank.

Rock wraith is slightly different since his roll attack seems 100% randomly chosen, but my averline had no problems holding aggro on every other single boss enemy on my 1st playthrough and that was with my duelist/assassin full damage build rogue going full out on the bosses (which because of fearful synergy actually helped averline hold threat).

Kileyan wrote...

a 2 handed sword tank felt like cheating, it was that much easier. Add in another 2 handed warrior, and you may as well design the rest of the party around their combos or just heal/buff them passivelly , you need nothing else. 2-handed warriors are that good at offense and nearly as good at defense. 

I also wouldn't run 2 melee with a 2hand warrior tank unless i am playing on hard or lower difficulty which i just wouldn't do because i find it too easy.

I remember doing the missions for Fenris on my 2hand playthrough and every single pack of enemies my character would kill fenris with my aoe attacks.

And trust me without seriously gimping the damage output the warrior can do theres no way a 2hander could tank aswell as my averline was near the end of the game even without the added armor i could have gotten if i could give companions armor, i could literally have her pick up 6 enemies and ignore her while i picked off any ranged/dangerous enemies and after finishing those off she would still be perfectly fine and still have all 6 glued to her.

Modifié par Tyrith, 15 mars 2011 - 05:44 .

[Pileyourbodies]

Turn down difficulty?

[Jarys]

Hard is honestly fairly easy once you hit level 10 or so. With no friendly fire from mage aoe you can drop fireballs and meteor showers in your group with no worries. If you have issues in hard mode, you should definitely swap to normal (i tried hard yesterday and it was hilarious, two mages in a group and just spammed aoes on top of us.. everything just sort of fell over).

[Palathas]

Actually, one of the things I've noticed with enemy Assassins and Rogues that use stealth is that in one of the tool tips it says that if an enemy is stealthed and in an AoE abilities radius then their stealth is broken and they reappear. In practice this is definitely not the case.

[kazumar]

My first play through was mage main, Anders for Healing, Varric DPS, Aveline for tanking.
On every single fight I pull my team back away from the main spawn. When thats not possible you have to target priority targets and burn them down fast.

If you can pull your team away from the main spawn area, every fight on NM is cake. Assassins are the death knell of NM, who love one shotting mages or rogues, they must be stun locked and killed immediately. Combustion grenades are good for this, along with shield bash, or any other stun manuever.

All of my companions have their AOE abilities turned off and I micro every fight basically. Nothing like anders mind blasting you for no good reason or Varric killing everyone with his bursting shot. Its just to impractical to use AoE's willy-nilly. My mage was specced Force/Spirit Healer with Fire/Ice damage support.

Varric was the core dps, setting up cross class combo's is key. Ultimately I did it for completion status, but I did not enjoy every trivial fight being a pull back, micro or wipe scenerio. It felt very unfun, boring and repetative.

It was also highly irritating having no quick swap for weapons, constantly having to switch staves for DPS that would work on a target. The hardest fights for me were any battles that consisted of several high level assassins, often leading to multiple reloads. Sometimes it was random luck if they would back-stab the wrong target.

Around chapter 3 it became much easier, but I'd gotten so used to the strategy and fights it was just typical.

My second play through on hard was a joke in comparison. I used two two-handed warriors, Varric and Merril and stomped through with no healer. Devour to heal my main, blood magic for merril with no will and running all sustainables and Fenris the awesomeness of his skill tree. Varric just can't be left because he's ridiculously good. AoE madness through the whole game basically.

[Leo Church 13]

I've played a rogue to level 16 on hard and I still can't make goad work on 360. Perhaps it's broken, at least it's not dex again.

My initial problem with tanking was not giving Aveline enough stamina to use her abilities. She won't do anything besides sit there without it. She has some good activated abilities, let her use them. As for Synergy, I found it generally unhelpful due to the range limitation. Bravado is helpful, though I would still spec for taunt.

Save your high dmg skills (assassinate/two fangs, etc) for mages and rogues as they appear. most of the time I ran around cleaning up low health mobs with my rogue.

I've also found that some encounters have set waves of enemies and other times the waves stop when the elites dies. So burn down the tiny lifebar adds and archers, dps the main guy, refocus dps on rogues when they appear (or mages), then go back to the main. take down the normal adds afterwards.

Mages die a lot in this game, unlike DA:O. I started a mage and was much happier figuring out the mechanics playing a rogue.

[Tyrith]

And Kazumar if you're 2nd playthrough had been on Nightmare it would have been worse than you're 1st playthrough

Only problem i can see about you're 1st playthrough is you didn't really have enough damage, you should have tried Merril full aoe/damage spec'd since Tempest and Chain lightning currently don't cause friendly fire you would have had a much easier time.

I finished my 1st playthrough with Duelist/Assassin rogue, varric, merril, Averline and had no problems with any of the later fights.

[Dwellnot]

i'm not sure what you are playing, i was excited about this game to finally play a warrior that actually could deal damage.  saying that I started on nightmare, getting sick of all the pausing i put it to hard.

Playing on hard with a 2h warrior with availne tanking/taunting, a mage freezing and varric aoe slowing/disorienting I literally almost never have to pause the game and wipe thru mobs like nothing.

When the fight starts, hit H put party on hold, hit R (select all characters) run them around the corner from the fight, mobs clump up, cone of cold them, hit cleave on 2h warrior, scythe thru them and aoe everything for 1200+ dmg = instadeaths all over, winters grasp the boss/elite mob, mighty blow the boss/elite mob for 2000-4000 dmg = another instadeath. I hit printscreen not sure if it captured the screenshot but my hawke has hit a few times for 4000+ dmg with 2h, it's pretty nasty. scythe hits around 1500aoe when everythings frozen.

Hardmode is pretty flippin easy, sorry to say that if it makes you feel bad.  The only thing i absolutely hate in this game is all the knockbacks and interrupts, mostly for mages and rogues it makes them nearly impossible to play and their dmg output does NOT equate to how many problems they have to deal with of being interrupted all the time and low survivability.

TL:DR

Roll hawke as a 2h, get a mage to freeze stuff, be a berserker with 15% extra dmg of stamina left and use cleave (+100% dmg) = instawin

[Chromie]

That's because Nightmare in Origins was too damn easy. I love how hard it is. Dying over and over and finally kiling a boss really is a lot more satisfying then before.

[Darqion]

Well i have already figured out that a mage hawk has it harder then the rogue i walked my rogue for a bit and had zero issues. But 2 hitting a boss mob? I kinda doubt that, as most the bosses i have seen can take all the skills of all my characters and still walk around above half health no problem.

But as i said before, i have just now learned to think of this as a new game, instead of a sequel and things have gone way smoother since