I'm confused. I sided with Orsino and the mages 1st playthrough and let Anders live, Orsino turned into the harvester and i had to kill him, I then had to fight and obliterate Meredith (Of which i had no problem smacking her down with with my pimped out Celebrant sword)
Anyway 2nd playthrough Sided with Meredith and the Templars killed Anders, And the same outcome occured had to kill Orsino and then Meredith in the exact same way.
My real question is - Is there another ending? Or a different outcome to the 2 endings ive already had?
Orsino or Meredith? *Spoilers*
Débuté par
-Zorph-
, mars 12 2011 10:36
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#52
Posté 22 mars 2011 - 06:55
fanman72
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Both are idiotic. I sided with Orsino when forced to choose a side.
#53
Posté 23 mars 2011 - 01:04
GR Groe
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In the end, both have dire traits of insanity, true. But I think in the larger scheme of things, Orsino was the more sensible of the two. Yes, he did have knowledge of Quentin's research, and may have even been fascinated by it. But he did condemn it as evil, and the only thing that made him believe it was worth it to use blood magic was the thought of having to face Meredith (and potentially the undefeated Champion of Kirkwall).
Orsino was under severe stress from Meredith, who was already a radical prior to obtaining the Idol. Why is Cullen transferred to Kirkwall? Because Meredith has far harsher policies than Greagoir, and is infamous for these policies. Lest we forget the finale of Act 2, where she's willing to sacrifice lives to get into the Viscount's Keep, and it's Orsino that talks her down, and depending on Hawke's choice, that talking down leads to a completely acceptable alternative (i.e. Orsino being a badass and blowing a hole through the Qunari defenses).
No, Orsino is not a saint. Show me a recent BioWare character that is. And maybe he's even less of a saint than we've come to expect from the "righteous" characters. But Idol or no, Meredith has always been brutal to the Circle. Orsino wanted fairness from the Templars, and when Meredith invoked the Right of Annulment for a crime the Circle had no part in, he realized there was no reasoning with her. He became desperate. I'm not apologizing for the blood magic, or the Quentin, or the Leandra, or the damned Harvester-abomination-thing. I'm just saying give credit where it's due: Meredith was totally insane long before Orsino was. Our frustration with him isn't because he was stupid to begin with, it's becuase he didn't live up to the expectations we had of someone who was arguably in the right, at least so far as the Mage/Templar debate is concerned.
Orsino was under severe stress from Meredith, who was already a radical prior to obtaining the Idol. Why is Cullen transferred to Kirkwall? Because Meredith has far harsher policies than Greagoir, and is infamous for these policies. Lest we forget the finale of Act 2, where she's willing to sacrifice lives to get into the Viscount's Keep, and it's Orsino that talks her down, and depending on Hawke's choice, that talking down leads to a completely acceptable alternative (i.e. Orsino being a badass and blowing a hole through the Qunari defenses).
No, Orsino is not a saint. Show me a recent BioWare character that is. And maybe he's even less of a saint than we've come to expect from the "righteous" characters. But Idol or no, Meredith has always been brutal to the Circle. Orsino wanted fairness from the Templars, and when Meredith invoked the Right of Annulment for a crime the Circle had no part in, he realized there was no reasoning with her. He became desperate. I'm not apologizing for the blood magic, or the Quentin, or the Leandra, or the damned Harvester-abomination-thing. I'm just saying give credit where it's due: Meredith was totally insane long before Orsino was. Our frustration with him isn't because he was stupid to begin with, it's becuase he didn't live up to the expectations we had of someone who was arguably in the right, at least so far as the Mage/Templar debate is concerned.
#54
Guest_Shavon_*
Posté 23 mars 2011 - 01:08
Guest_Shavon_*
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Go with Orsino. The mage oppression must end!
No matter who you side with at the very beginning of the Act, both Meredith and Orsino will write letters to Hawke, which will send Hawke on some quests rekating to the mage-templar struggle.
No matter who you side with at the very beginning of the Act, both Meredith and Orsino will write letters to Hawke, which will send Hawke on some quests rekating to the mage-templar struggle.
#55
Posté 23 mars 2011 - 01:13
GR Groe
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And a defense for Meredith? She had a rough life, her sister becoming an abomination and all that. I don't think that's nearly enough to excuse her treatment of mages, but it does put things in perspective. She even admits, if you side with the mages, that she knows it's wrong to persecute all of them for the crimes of the few. But knowing it's wrong doesn't excuse her actions, and her persistent "no compromise" attitude throughout the entire game leaves little room for forgiveness.
Honestly, I think the only bit of her insanity that can be completely justified with the Idol is her turning on a Hawke that sided with her. Beyond that, the Idol only heightened what had already been there for a long time.
Honestly, I think the only bit of her insanity that can be completely justified with the Idol is her turning on a Hawke that sided with her. Beyond that, the Idol only heightened what had already been there for a long time.
#56
Posté 23 mars 2011 - 01:14
Zigabogado
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I sided with Orsino. Both of them are insane, so. :/
I also got an awesome new looking avatar 8D
I also got an awesome new looking avatar 8D
#57
Posté 23 mars 2011 - 01:16
ad1dash0lm3s
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S117 Raven wrote...
I'm confused. I sided with Orsino and the mages 1st playthrough and let Anders live, Orsino turned into the harvester and i had to kill him, I then had to fight and obliterate Meredith (Of which i had no problem smacking her down with with my pimped out Celebrant sword)
Anyway 2nd playthrough Sided with Meredith and the Templars killed Anders, And the same outcome occured had to kill Orsino and then Meredith in the exact same way.
My real question is - Is there another ending? Or a different outcome to the 2 endings ive already had?
It is the same ending, they both go corrupt and crazy and you have to defeat them both. No alternative endings. All them b****** are crazy!
#58
Posté 23 mars 2011 - 01:20
M_arc
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I sided with Orsino, then he went full Harvester mode on me, thanks a lot!
Meredith was the same, when she snapped and went full Devil May Cry mode on me, things got hectic.
Meredith was the same, when she snapped and went full Devil May Cry mode on me, things got hectic.
#60
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 11:52
deplorable
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meredith brought my mother into the conversation as a low blow at this point.. so i sided with the mages.
#61
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 01:00
Nerdage
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I sided with the mages but it pained me to have to agree with Orsino. I can't be the only one who knew that letter in the All That Remains quest signed "O" came from Orsino as soon as I found out what the first enchanter was called. I had to agree with him because apparently my character didn't figure it out so quickly and it wouldn't have made sense for her to side with the templars without knowing, but it was so bleeding obvious!
#62
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 01:11
xYOSSARIANx
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I supported the mages all through the game, but...
They all turn to blood magic/abominations/demons.
One murdered my mother with help from someone in the circle who signs "O" on a note.
One blows up the chantry
So I decided on the steps to change allegiance to the templars. I had been feeling that mages actually were very dangerous for nearly all the 3rd act.
Mages cannot be trusted to not dabble in blood magic, they resort to it under ANY provocation. So in the end I decided although Meridith was not very nice she was the lesser of two evils.
They all turn to blood magic/abominations/demons.
One murdered my mother with help from someone in the circle who signs "O" on a note.
One blows up the chantry
So I decided on the steps to change allegiance to the templars. I had been feeling that mages actually were very dangerous for nearly all the 3rd act.
Mages cannot be trusted to not dabble in blood magic, they resort to it under ANY provocation. So in the end I decided although Meridith was not very nice she was the lesser of two evils.
#63
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 01:16
prownage89
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Orsino cuz he isnt inherently a douche.
#64
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 01:19
Vhalkyrie
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Meredith seemed crazy and paranoid at first for accusing everyone of being a blood mage, but she wasn't exactly wrong. The number of mages who weren't blood mages in the Free Marshes seemed to be in the minority.
Near the end of the game *I* was getting paranoid. I was looking at Bethany with Orsino at end game, wondering if my sister was going to turn into an abomination and attack me. I was relieved when she did not.
Near the end of the game *I* was getting paranoid. I was looking at Bethany with Orsino at end game, wondering if my sister was going to turn into an abomination and attack me. I was relieved when she did not.
Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 28 mars 2011 - 01:30 .
#65
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 01:19
AngelicMachinery
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The Knight Commander, every mage in this game besides Bethany(Merril wasn't too bad but she was dangerous) was a monster. The templars actually seemed like a pretty good group of people.
#66
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 01:21
Sandmanifest
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AngelicMachinery wrote...
The Knight Commander, every mage in this game besides Bethany(Merril wasn't too bad but she was dangerous) was a monster. The templars actually seemed like a pretty good group of people.
This. I was pro mage first time, and they made me pretty angry. None of them even fight for you at the end of the game really. And lets not forget the whole Orsino buisness.
#67
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 01:44
Vicious
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Meredith, because she seemed to feel very sorry for what she did.
The other 90% of the time she was just insane, however.
It also just occured to me she looks suspiciously like the Throne of Bhaal final boss, Melissan. Headdress and all.
Weird.
The other 90% of the time she was just insane, however.
It also just occured to me she looks suspiciously like the Throne of Bhaal final boss, Melissan. Headdress and all.
Weird.
#68
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:00
Vhalkyrie
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Meredith is very quickly becoming one of my all time favorite female game characters. The controversy around her makes her even more epic. I hope there will be a DLC where we can learn more about her prior to the events of Hawke's arrival.
#69
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:01
Zaros
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Orsino is nice on the outside, but a total douche on the inside.
Meredith was nice on the inside at some point, but switched that out for total insanity.
So really, there is no right answer, I kind of wish I could've chosen not to side with either of them.
Pure win.
Meredith was nice on the inside at some point, but switched that out for total insanity.
So really, there is no right answer, I kind of wish I could've chosen not to side with either of them.
Sandmanifest wrote...
AngelicMachinery wrote...
The
Knight Commander, every mage in this game besides Bethany(Merril
wasn't too bad but she was dangerous) was a monster. The templars
actually seemed like a pretty good group of people.
This.
I was pro mage first time, and they made me pretty angry. None of them
even fight for you at the end of the game really. And lets not forget
the whole Orsino buisness.
Pure win.
Modifié par Zaros, 28 mars 2011 - 02:03 .
#70
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:03
The Angry One
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I really wish they hadn't gone down the Soul Edge route with Meredith, there was a lot of potential there for a hardline, paranoid character who honestly believed what she was doing was right.
Could say the same for Orsino too, but I still like Meredith more.
As it stands I go with Meredith, evil sword and all. Orsino is just downright stupid.
Could say the same for Orsino too, but I still like Meredith more.
As it stands I go with Meredith, evil sword and all. Orsino is just downright stupid.
#71
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:04
NeoGuardian86
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The fact that whether you side with one or the other and learn something deeply horrible about one of them, just lends me to think.
nope, they're both crazy.
nope, they're both crazy.
#72
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:14
jmbrosendo
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****Major Spoiler Alert****
I started out against the templars, oppressive bunch, and all, sister, Merril and Anders were apostates not bad folk at all, even if one was a blood mage the other an abomination.
After a blood mage murders his mother, fighting inumerous abominations, hearing Fenris tales of how Tevinters subverted the Chantry, resort to bloodmagic and blood sacrifices just to move up in life. His friend blew up the Kirkwall Chantry, along with whomever was in it, including the Grand Cleric, whom just happened to be the one person who would be able to resolve the affair peacefully(for a while as we see Meredith is insane/paranoid from the corrupted Lyrium), throwing the whole city just barely recovering from the Qunari attack, into chaos again.
And well, She was the only person left with whom He could reminisce in the memories of his family, besides Gamlen.
This after the mage He rescued from the templars years ago, kidnaps his sister and wanted both her and him dead.
I dunno about anyone else, but at that point in the game, where you definitely have to take sides, I wanted a third option:
"Kill yourselves at will, I am outta here, I don't know who is worse frankly."
In the end, I opted the Templars, even if Meredith was mad as a cuckoo. Despite her, the templars on the whole seemed much more open, friendlier and down to earth.
Saved what mages I could (courtyard scene), killed a slew of abominations, and then cherry top of the cake, I find out Orsino covered up Quentin, and left him murdering innocents unchecked for political reasons, even kept his research at hand instead of destroying it.
The person in charge of the Circle protecting a serial killer, whom killed your mother. The gall of him asking aid for the mages, knowing that, not even a word.
Afterwards, you got Meredith turn against you, after doing her dirty work.
Glad my Hawke said to Isabela He would go away and sail on her ship. He's had enough of Kirkwall, for a lifetime. All He ever got from all his efforts was constant kicks in the nuts.
I started out against the templars, oppressive bunch, and all, sister, Merril and Anders were apostates not bad folk at all, even if one was a blood mage the other an abomination.
After a blood mage murders his mother, fighting inumerous abominations, hearing Fenris tales of how Tevinters subverted the Chantry, resort to bloodmagic and blood sacrifices just to move up in life. His friend blew up the Kirkwall Chantry, along with whomever was in it, including the Grand Cleric, whom just happened to be the one person who would be able to resolve the affair peacefully(for a while as we see Meredith is insane/paranoid from the corrupted Lyrium), throwing the whole city just barely recovering from the Qunari attack, into chaos again.
And well, She was the only person left with whom He could reminisce in the memories of his family, besides Gamlen.
This after the mage He rescued from the templars years ago, kidnaps his sister and wanted both her and him dead.
I dunno about anyone else, but at that point in the game, where you definitely have to take sides, I wanted a third option:
"Kill yourselves at will, I am outta here, I don't know who is worse frankly."
In the end, I opted the Templars, even if Meredith was mad as a cuckoo. Despite her, the templars on the whole seemed much more open, friendlier and down to earth.
Saved what mages I could (courtyard scene), killed a slew of abominations, and then cherry top of the cake, I find out Orsino covered up Quentin, and left him murdering innocents unchecked for political reasons, even kept his research at hand instead of destroying it.
The person in charge of the Circle protecting a serial killer, whom killed your mother. The gall of him asking aid for the mages, knowing that, not even a word.
Afterwards, you got Meredith turn against you, after doing her dirty work.
Glad my Hawke said to Isabela He would go away and sail on her ship. He's had enough of Kirkwall, for a lifetime. All He ever got from all his efforts was constant kicks in the nuts.
#73
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:30
Rock Mu
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AngelicMachinery wrote...
The Knight Commander, every mage in this game besides Bethany(Merril wasn't too bad but she was dangerous) was a monster. The templars actually seemed like a pretty good group of people.
Lmao, Yea the guy (Ser Karas?) that decides to kill all the mages coming out of that cave even if they surrender was a gem. And the older templar (Ser Alrik) who basicaly said he was gonna rape that young girl after he made her tranquil was also a really good person.
Face the facts.
1. You have a Knight Commander who is known for ordering the rite of tranquility for even the slightest offense.
2. If you're an apostate, her men have full authority to kill you on sight. Even if you try & surrender. And since the majority of Andrastians in Thedas seem to be portrayed as being blindly faithful, ignorant morons.... Obviously most people who join the Templars go into it with the state of mind that magic can only ever be evil.
3. Kirkwall is built over a giant Tevinter sacrificial altar, so the veil has to be as thin as a wet paper towel. Meaning any mage there is automatically extra susceptable to Demons.
4. Most mages just aren't as capable as a Hawke or Bethany. So when people are about to kill you and your magic isn't strong enough for you to protect youself.... suddenly the offer from that demon that has been whispering in your ear all this time sounds great.
Basically it boils down to the fact that neither side is good. There is not right or wrong. Even if you support the Templars they go nuts at the end and revolt to start a holy war. A "group of good people" dosen't do that.
Who's fault is it? The Chantry. They twisted the words of their own prophet, and decided she meant all mages needed to be slaves. Then they subjugated the Elves because they refused to convert and wanted to remain mostly seperate from the human kingdoms. And most human andrastians see this as perfectly fine. Theocracy = fail. The Chantry IMO is just as big a fail as the Qun.
I personally got up from my chair and did a slow clap when Anders blew up the Chantry (Then I killed him, because I really hate the character lol). Any organization that actively supports racism and what is essentially slavery like the Chantry does needs to fall. Hopefully DA3 stars a new main character and the end of the game has him blowing up the grand cathedral.
Modifié par Rock Mu, 28 mars 2011 - 02:34 .
#74
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:32
Rock Mu
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double post >.>
Modifié par Rock Mu, 28 mars 2011 - 02:32 .
#75
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 02:34
The Angry One
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Rock Mu wrote...
1. You have a Knight Commander who is known for ordering the rite of tranquility for even the slightest offense.
And yet Grace, the malcontent blood mage rebellious leader is allowed to stand around the courtyard undisciplined.
2. If you're an apostate, her men have full authority to kill you on sight. Even if you try & surrender. And since the majority of Andrastians in Thedas seem to be portrayed as being blindly faithful, ignorant morons.... Obviously most people who join the Templars go into it with the state of mind that magic can only ever be evil.
This is the potential punishment for any apostate anywhere in Thedas.
3. Kirkwall is built over a giant Tevinter sacrificial altar, so the veil has to be as thin as a wet paper towel. Meaning any mage there is automatically extra susceptable to Demons.
So basically any location where there's been a lot of death can make mages go kill-crazy.
That doesn't prove the Chantry right or anything at all.
