94 réponses à ce sujet

[snackrat]

DrunkDave89 wrote...

Next playthrough i'll be siding with Meredith to see how the ending changes.

...it doesn't. Choose sides for role-playing reasons, the game is the same.

[Rock Mu]

The Angry One wrote...

Rock Mu wrote...

1. You have a Knight Commander who is known for ordering the rite of tranquility for even the slightest offense.

And yet Grace, the malcontent blood mage rebellious leader is allowed to stand around the courtyard undisciplined.

2. If you're an apostate, her men have full authority to kill you on sight. Even if you try & surrender. And since the majority of Andrastians in Thedas seem to be portrayed as being blindly faithful, ignorant morons.... Obviously most people who join the Templars go into it with the state of mind that magic can only ever be evil.

This is the potential punishment for any apostate anywhere in Thedas.

3. Kirkwall is built over a giant Tevinter sacrificial altar, so the veil has to be as thin as a wet paper towel. Meaning any mage there is automatically extra susceptable to Demons.

So basically any location where there's been a lot of death can make mages go kill-crazy.
That doesn't prove the Chantry right or anything at all.

1. Who's to say they knew she was a blood mage? My guess is Thrask caught her. And he was really the only halfway decent Templar in the whole game.

2. Yet it's the norm in the Free Marches thanks to Meredith's policies.

3. And yet a mage Hawke has no problems with that at all. Why? Because he's allowed to live his life (for some reason... which makes zero siense btw). If you've been oppressed all your life, then obviously you're gonna snap rather easily. The Chantry's method of control over mages does not work. Period. Kirkwall proved it. This was bound to happen sooner than later. As I said before neither side is "right", and the chantry as a mediating force dosen't work either because the chantry itself is inherently flawed.

To summarize.. Theocracy = fail. BURN IT ALL DOWN!

[NeoGuardian86]

I know this is a little off topic, and in my first and main playthrough (I really like putting myself into the game, my Hawke being merely an extension of me, i really get into that).

but while i ended up siding with the Mages ultimately because of their plight, i don't think dismantling the Cricle is the right way to go. perhaps self-policing or a better arrangment between the Mages and Templar's.

Seriously were not talking about people who just happen to be a different race, sex or orientation. were taking about people who not only can just conjure up ice and fire either, but hexes, curses and mind control. There has to be some responsible level of control for that amount of power. simply saying "well let them be free" doesn't really suffice with me.

If the circles were more like Hogwarts and less like Hogwarts with extreme security specifically watching those inside, that would be better. but there has to be something to avoid the dangers we end up hearing and reading about in the Tevinter Imperium.

I mean how many times did we end up running into Mages who either intentionally or unintentionally get taken by a Spirit, and how eager the demons - rather then the good spirits - seem to be in wanting to get into the human world. There are certainly dangers, casually shrugging that issue doesn't really solve the concerns and reason for the Templar's existence.

That is unless you fundamentally believe in a sort of Ayn Rand scenario of a conflict between those who can and cannot. and those who can have every right to do as they please.

Reason i love this conflict is that it isn't black and white. Both have good reasons and both have their faults. In Templar and Mages case their fault is the possibility of abuse of power.

[Dasha Dreyson]

I wish I could side with Keran and Alain, but we know how that turned out. My completed games have sided with the mages, but I have a game where I'm anti "weird" magic.

[Vhalkyrie]

Rock Mu wrote...
2. Yet it's the norm in the Free Marches thanks to Meredith's policies.

As stated, it's the norm anywhere.  Remember the Templars that used to come looking for Flemeth and Morrigan in the Wilds?  The weren't there to have a polite discussion about the pros and cons of the Circle.  They were trying to kill them.  Several times throughout the game, Meredith allows apostates to enter the Circle (Bethany, Feynriel), or come back to the Circle (Alain, Grace, Emile).  Unless they were blood mages.  Under Chantry law, she was authorized to execute apostates.  There were several instances where she did not.

[FrozenDawn]

ok one Question: does it even matter t all what you chose? I mean you have to kill orsino and meredith anyway right?

[Vhalkyrie]

FrozenDawn wrote...

ok one Question: does it even matter t all what you chose? I mean you have to kill orsino and meredith anyway right?

It matters if you want your Hawke epilogue to be Viscount.  Hawke will be Viscount if he/she sides with the Templars.  Otherwise, Hawke is on the run with the apostates.

The people support the Templars.  They're afraid of mages.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 28 mars 2011 - 03:21 .

[The Angry One]

Well, Viscount for an indeterminate period of time after which Hawke vanishes anyway, so it ends up the same.

But hey I suppose it's better than becoming ruler only to find out you have to generate 6 million gold by being a real estate mogul and making pies or the cosmic horror from beyond the moon will kill all your people.

Modifié par The Angry One, 28 mars 2011 - 03:32 .

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...

Well, Viscount for an indeterminate period of time after which Hawke vanishes anyway, so it ends up the same.

But hey I suppose it's better than becoming ruler only to find out you have to generate 6 million gold by being a real estate mogul and making pies or the cosmic horror from beyond the moon will kill all your people.

Especially if said people hate you for actively trying to prevent said horrors from prevailing :|

[MKDAWUSS]

The Angry One wrote...

Well, Viscount for an indeterminate period of time after which Hawke vanishes anyway, so it ends up the same.

But hey I suppose it's better than becoming ruler only to find out you have to generate 6 million gold by being a real estate mogul and making pies or the cosmic horror from beyond the moon will kill all your people.

And apparently Kirkwall functions just the same with a viscount as without. They went 3 years without one.

[Foolsfolly]

The Angry One wrote...

Well, Viscount for an indeterminate period of time after which Hawke vanishes anyway, so it ends up the same.

But hey I suppose it's better than becoming ruler only to find out you have to generate 6 million gold by being a real estate mogul and making pies or the cosmic horror from beyond the moon will kill all your people.

Pfft, had most of that anyway. Went out and blacksmithed for a bit and had enough money to safe everyone. Because nothing says 'moral choice' like how much coin you have in your wallet.

Gaw, what's the appeal of Fable games?

[Rock Mu]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Rock Mu wrote...
2. Yet it's the norm in the Free Marches thanks to Meredith's policies.

As stated, it's the norm anywhere.  Remember the Templars that used to come looking for Flemeth and Morrigan in the Wilds?  The weren't there to have a polite discussion about the pros and cons of the Circle.  They were trying to kill them.  Several times throughout the game, Meredith allows apostates to enter the Circle (Bethany, Feynriel), or come back to the Circle (Alain, Grace, Emile).  Unless they were blood mages.  Under Chantry law, she was authorized to execute apostates.  There were several instances where she did not.

Well in YOUR game there are several instances where she did not. Not everyone's game plays out the same way, and therein lies part of the problem with any debate arising from a game like this. In my game only 2 of those mages ever made it to the circle. And in one of my playthroughs Ser Karras (sp?) states that Meredith's orders are to execute any mage that runs (granted he's an a-hole & that could just be his interpertation of said orders). But yes, I still see what you're saying.

I see both sides of the argument though. On one hand systematic subjugation, on the other scary walking nukes. What can ya do really? But as long as one side is waiving the "god says your existence is wrong" flag, there can never be any real compromise in the conflict, so whichever side dies first loses I guess. Things are looking grim for Thedas.....

Modifié par Rock Mu, 28 mars 2011 - 04:43 .

[Dark-sider77]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Rock Mu wrote...
2. Yet it's the norm in the Free Marches thanks to Meredith's policies.

As stated, it's the norm anywhere.  Remember the Templars that used to come looking for Flemeth and Morrigan in the Wilds?  The weren't there to have a polite discussion about the pros and cons of the Circle.  They were trying to kill them.  Several times throughout the game, Meredith allows apostates to enter the Circle (Bethany, Feynriel), or come back to the Circle (Alain, Grace, Emile).  Unless they were blood mages.  Under Chantry law, she was authorized to execute apostates.  There were several instances where she did not.

Only maleficar can just be executed on sight. Chantry law says normal apostates are supposed to be brought back alive and entered into the circle, templars are only allowed to kill them as a last resort. This is why Anders was able to escape 7 times and not be killed. Oddly enough it seems maleficar can be brought back alive too, Idunna is a blood mage and is captured alive if you leave her for the Templars. As for Flemeth and Morrigan, i doubt they would allow themselves to be put in a circle and its possible the chantry considers the witches of the wilds maleficar to begin with.

[Foolsfolly]

Dark-sider77 wrote...

Only maleficar can just be executed on sight. Chantry law says normal apostates are supposed to be brought back alive and entered into the circle, templars are only allowed to kill them as a last resort. This is why Anders was able to escape 7 times and not be killed. Oddly enough it seems maleficar can be brought back alive too, Idunna is a blood mage and is captured alive if you leave her for the Templars. As for Flemeth and Morrigan, i doubt they would allow themselves to be put in a circle and its possible the chantry considers the witches of the wilds maleficar to begin with.

I bet they will too. Morrigan talks about how they fooled Templar and lured them to their deaths. I'm sure that's similar to a cop-killer in the Dragon Age universe.

[trembli0s]

-Zorph- wrote...

So I just finished dueling/defeating the Arishok (longest and most intense fight I've played in this game, took like 20 minutes and a ton of potions).

Now, I am in Act 3 since it starts right after. Orsino is preaching to the people about the fact that Meredith is basically a tyrant.

Did you agree with Orsino or Meredith, what happens when you say who you agree with? (without major spoilers, please)

YES.

Point being, its irrelevant.

[SamilTane]

NeoGuardian86 wrote...

(I really like putting myself into the game, my Hawke being merely an extension of me, i really get into that) ... <SNIP> ...  i ended up siding with the Mages ultimately because of their plight ... <SNIP> ... were taking about people who not only can just conjure up ice and fire either, but hexes, curses and mind control.

I tend to play my first playthrough in an RPG with my toon as an extension of myself too - it's fun to see what happens if *I* were the protagonist.

And I sided the mages too. Partly because my Hawke's sister was in the circle, but more because I saw the mages' losing control as ultimately due to the heavy-handedness of the templars. I know it's quite the chicken-and-egg problem, but there seemed to be more suggestions in the storyline that the mages were more responding to the templar situation than the other way round.

[Endfan]

I always knew Orsino was hiding something. You don't dress like that and NOT have a dark side.

[Annie_Dear]

Endfan wrote...

I always knew Orsino was hiding something. You don't dress like that and NOT have a dark side.

Bwahahaa! Good point!

[Eiliestl]

Who cares you end up killing them both whoever you pick. Oh and I went with Orsino

[Back2basics]

It pretty much comes down to picking the lesser of two evils, neither one is right and if you play through it both ways you really see the bad side in each of them.