98 réponses à ce sujet

[Aklis]

As far as I've noticed, it's incredibly pointless to play as a tank, because you're in no way equipped for it. Tanking at lower levels is impossible, both for you and Aveline, due to the stupid fact that the only way to gain threat is by using taunt. The twenty seconds until you can taunt again is more than enough for your other characters to get themselves semi-dead.

Then, when you hit, what, level 7 and unlock Aveline's Guardian-tree, there's nothing you as a warrior can do to even remotely match her. Thank you for forcing me to use a character I don't want to have.

So, what should be done to remedy this? I'm only playing on Hard for my first playthrough, so I doubt that Aveline's increased tanking capabilities really are all that necessary, but I'm planning on doing a Nightmare run as a mage after this one, and I still don't want her to tag along.

[XOGHunter246]

It's her or your own tank but from what I am hearing playing as a tank is rather annoying compared to the other builds. If you do not want her your only option is to be a tank as most of other character do not make very good tanks I guess you could try use a two hander as one. If you did this it would mean sacrificing damage for health and two handers are more useful with more damage.

Lower levels tend to always be harder till you get you gear later maybe just get some good gear and see if your tanking ability changes.

[Aklis]

...You really didn't read what I wrote, did you?

My point is, Aveline will be so much better than you at tanking because of her special tree.

[Adeph]

It's a single player game, does it really matter if an NPC can be slightly better than you as long as you enjoy playing the game?

If you enjoy the tank role then play one, having Hawke as a tank over Aveline will in no way prevent you from finishing the game.

[JJDrakken]

Aklis wrote...

...You really didn't read what I wrote, did you?

My point is, Aveline will be so much better than you at tanking because of her special tree.

My team was 2H Warrior(Hawke), Merrill, Anders, & Varric.  Pretty much 85% of the game.  Heck Anders can tank better then you, 


JJ

[Domitrix]

My last play through was me (Mage), Isabelle, Merril, and Fenris... tank? Who needs a tank? The idea of a tank being necessary is... old and not necessary for this game. I did the deep road with Isabelle, Merill, and the big V with me as a mage, no warriors at all and did fine So... play a tank if you want. I plan to do a sword and board fighter eventually myself.

[Fenn_]

Domitrix wrote...

My last play through was me (Mage), Isabelle, Merril, and Fenris... tank? Who needs a tank? The idea of a tank being necessary is... old and not necessary for this game. I did the deep road with Isabelle, Merill, and the big V with me as a mage, no warriors at all and did fine So... play a tank if you want. I plan to do a sword and board fighter eventually myself.

What build were you useing for Fenris and your mage?

[Domitrix]

Fenris was primarily the 2H tree and his tree actually... There is -some- defense in Fenris 'spec' tree but it's not that heavy. He was also heavy into battlemaster as well.

My mage was Everything Elemental (All upgrades and all talents) with Force (Not as many upgrades here but every primary talent) and Arcane (A few upgrades, elemental resist in arcane shield, the stun upgrade for mind blast) without Elemental Weapons or Barrier.

[Darkov]

Isabelle has quite a few skills in her tree that allow her to perform the duty of a tank on single target. Fenris can also be setup quite nicely to tank, though nothing is going to compare to Aveline, it isn't really that important early on, maybe in Act 3 (which I haven't finished yet), there is something that calls for a real tank, but I've not seen an encounter so far that needs it.

Also, many of the Rogue and Mage trees have threat reduction passives or abilities in them, along with quite a few area of effect crowd control abilities. Plenty there to keep things from hitting those you don't want them to hit. But to be honest, with Anders and Merril in a group, do you really need to protect anyone?

[bluecapsule6]

It's pretty funny how all the non-mage companions have their own special trees that are way better then any specializations Hawke can get.

[colejossart]

SnS tanking is BORING! Shield defense has the WORST animation of all time... and it completely gets rid of aoe basic attacks. PLUS -25% damage... come on.

But my 2H warrior Hawke Tank is really good and fun to play. I basically made a DPS warrior with taunt and bellow and voila! Insta-fun tank where you don't have to have Aveline. The rest of my party is Isabela, Varric and Anders. Isabela is the DPSer, Varric helps get the threat on Hawke with the scoundrel tree and Anders is the healer. Btw, I think that Massacre is the BEST passive talent in the game.

[Sheylan]

bluecapsule6 wrote...

It's pretty funny how all the non-mage companions have their own special trees that are way better then any specializations Hawke can get.

Isabela's is sorta *meh*. Not bad, but, nowhere near as good as, say, Varric's.



And of course Anders and Merril get completely screwed.

[Graunt]

colejossart wrote...
Btw, I think that Massacre is the BEST passive talent in the game.

Heh, I said that it would be before the game was even released.

[Tomark]

Heh, tanking with main character with a 2-H is extremely powerful. A 2-H's ability to attack lots of people at once always makes sure people wants to kill him, and then you just have to use taunt from time to time.

How are Merril and Anders screwed? i like Ander's special quick-cast tree (though i haven't used him much), and Merril, well, it's true that shedoesn't get creation but her spe tree could be useful (though i have no real idea of how to use it yet )

[swk3000]

Aveline is a solid Tank, but not the best. All she gets from her personal Spec is Damage Resist. You can't get Knockdown Immunity from items, but a character using Fenris as a Tank will be pumping Strength (I personally go 2 Strength, 1 Constitution every level), so he'll have a higher Fortitude score to help counter Knockdown.

The issue is that you can't rely on Taunt; while it generates enough instant threat to draw attention to you, if you can't keep that threat, then enemies will immediately peel off to attack other party members again. Threat's main components are Distance and Damage. Since most fights take place at melee range, you need some way of putting out the sort of damage that will keep enemy attention focused on you. Sword and Shield simply can't match the raw damage output of a Greatsword, so they don't make the solid Tanks that they made in the last game. Especially with items like the Dull Brass Amulet, which gives the character equipped with it Immunity to Flanking.

I would argue that Fenris is actually the best Tank in the game, not Aveline.

[Kemine]

Aveline gets a 100% Knockdown/stun resist passive in her personal tree. And as a rogue player i found bodyguard being awesome especially combined with her loyalty feat.

I myself tanked normal difficutly mostly with my rogue with aveline bodyguard and elemetal defense rally as support.

[swk3000]

There are several rings that give Stun Immunity, and the Knockdowns are all based on Fortitude, which is based on Strength. A character with high Strength will have high Fortitude, so while he won't be immune to Knockdown, he'll be much more likely to resist it.

[Last Darkness]

I had no problems tanking as Hawke...I dont see the argument.

[Aklis]

Last Darkness: Ramp up the difficulty, then.

I might just give up on the game entirely, because it's so obviously not designed with roleplaying in mind. It isn't even possible to play as a SnS-tank where I'm at right now. The run-in with the ship captains at the docks? Impossible. The fight with the Abomination in the warehouse? Even more impossible.

Which is rather fun, since I just tore through both using a two-handed warrior.

No, thanks, Bioware. Please be competent again.

[bluecapsule6]

Sheylan wrote...

bluecapsule6 wrote...

It's pretty funny how all the non-mage companions have their own special trees that are way better then any specializations Hawke can get.

Isabela's is sorta *meh*. Not bad, but, nowhere near as good as, say, Varric's.



And of course Anders and Merril get completely screwed.

Varric and Fenris both have ridiculously good talent trees compared to what Hawke gets. 

Even Isabella gets passives that give: +25% defense, +20% critical chance, +20% critical damage, and +20% atk.

[Dr0x]

For everyone who is going through the game with either a 2h tank or no tank, what difficulty do you play on? I find it hard to believe that any group without a tank could survive on hard or nightmare.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Drox, I can get through many sections of the game on hard/NM with out a tank although tanking makes it slightly easier. Anders, Rogue Hawke, Varric, and either Merril or Isabella (its much harder with Sebastian)

[themaxzero]

swk3000 wrote...

Aveline is a solid Tank, but not the best. All she gets from her personal Spec is Damage Resist. You can't get Knockdown Immunity from items, but a character using Fenris as a Tank will be pumping Strength (I personally go 2 Strength, 1 Constitution every level), so he'll have a higher Fortitude score to help counter Knockdown.

The issue is that you can't rely on Taunt; while it generates enough instant threat to draw attention to you, if you can't keep that threat, then enemies will immediately peel off to attack other party members again. Threat's main components are Distance and Damage. Since most fights take place at melee range, you need some way of putting out the sort of damage that will keep enemy attention focused on you. Sword and Shield simply can't match the raw damage output of a Greatsword, so they don't make the solid Tanks that they made in the last game. Especially with items like the Dull Brass Amulet, which gives the character equipped with it Immunity to Flanking.

I would argue that Fenris is actually the best Tank in the game, not Aveline.

Wrong one two counts:

1) You can get knockdown immunity from items (Nexus Golem vendor)

2) You are using Taunt wrong. Taunt replaces all threat on a target with threat from the taunter. You don't use it right away.

[Aklis]

Lowered the difficulty from Hard to Normal and it's playable. This is ridiculous, though.

[themaxzero]

bluecapsule6 wrote...

Sheylan wrote...

bluecapsule6 wrote...

It's pretty funny how all the non-mage companions have their own special trees that are way better then any specializations Hawke can get.

Isabela's is sorta *meh*. Not bad, but, nowhere near as good as, say, Varric's.



And of course Anders and Merril get completely screwed.

Varric and Fenris both have ridiculously good talent trees compared to what Hawke gets. 

Even Isabella gets passives that give: +25% defense, +20% critical chance, +20% critical damage, and +20% atk.

Hawke gets the Duelist tree that is rather similiar to that.

The problem with Duelist is the presence of Assasination and Shadow. Shadow + Subterfuge + Assasination is the best elite killer in the game. A fully upgraded Assasinate + Stagger + 50% Mark of Death will one shot just about any enemy in the game. 

Modifié par themaxzero, 13 mars 2011 - 08:00 .