98 réponses à ce sujet

[Cloaking_Thane]

Do people only pump str and con for Ave to make her effective on NM?, b/c imo Fenris outstrips her by far as he can take out enemies before he goes....Av is going to be a mainstay in my next playthrough so I havent looked that far into her tree tbh

[Jarlaxlecq]

My Hawke is doing fine as a SnS tank. Hes practically unkillable. there have been fights where i get sloppy and my allies die only to have me win the day by just outlasting everyone. (I play on Hard)
Honestly so far the worst part was that it took like 20mins to wear down the Arishck. >.<

[Aklis]

Luc0s wrote...

I wouldn't say playing SnS-warrior is pointless. And I don't think Aveline is better at all. I looked at her special talent tree (I believe that tree was called Guardian?) and I was not that impressed. Her skills are nice and all, but not superb to a well-build SnS Hawke.

And how the f- can you compare this game to Devil May Cry? DMC is buttonbashing ftw. You don't buttonbash in Dragon Age 2.

Besides, comparing DA2 to DMC is not much of an insult, because DMC is friggin' awesome. ;-)

I meant the gigantic swords and the way they are used. I must be one of the only who were comfortable with the two-hand speed in DAO.

I am going to try another playthrough the coming weekend, since I will be busy with Shogun 2 starting tomorrow.

[colejossart]

bluecapsule6 wrote...

Sheylan wrote...

bluecapsule6 wrote...

It's pretty funny how all the non-mage companions have their own special trees that are way better then any specializations Hawke can get.

Isabela's is sorta *meh*. Not bad, but, nowhere near as good as, say, Varric's.



And of course Anders and Merril get completely screwed.

Varric and Fenris both have ridiculously good talent trees compared to what Hawke gets. 

Even Isabella gets passives that give: +25% defense, +20% critical chance, +20% critical damage, and +20% atk.

I agree Fenris gets ALL of the passive bonuses from finishing the Templar, Beserker, and Reaver specs, but doesn't have to put in nearly the amount of points to get them.

[corkey sweet]

Aklis wrote...

Well, since I've proven that it's an impossibility to tank, at least as far into the game as I am, yes.

i rather enjoyed tanking in awekening with my main character. its really a crime that bioware didn't provide a specialization catering to the tank warrior for Hawke. Reaver, Beserker, and templar are designed for the damage dealing warrior. its almost like bioware doesn't wan't you to make Hawke a tank. Thats garbage, this is a role playing game after all. you should be able to put Hawke into any role, and he should be the best. BOOOO!! to you bioware. 

Modifié par corkey sweet, 01 avril 2011 - 11:52 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Instead of rooting up old outdated threads you might want to look at some new ones...

S&S Experiment: Early Elemental Setup

[GenericPlayer2]

I have to agree with regards to the tank not being comparable to what Aveline can do. However, she is annoying so that might be motivation to do without her. Either way, a lot of people play without a dedicated tank.

I just wanted to add that sword and board gets boring quite quickly. Even the animation for the attack is boring. While a dual wield rogue or a two handed warrior or even a mage will exhibit a variety of swings and moves - Sword and Board only has a single thrusting motion, a poke if you will, that repeats over and over. Equip an Axe instead of the Sword and you still see the poking motion - like he is not attacking with the sharp end of the axe!

[Loc'n'lol]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...
I just wanted to add that sword and board gets boring quite quickly. Even the animation for the attack is boring. While a dual wield rogue or a two handed warrior or even a mage will exhibit a variety of swings and moves - Sword and Board only has a single thrusting motion, a poke if you will, that repeats over and over. Equip an Axe instead of the Sword and you still see the poking motion - like he is not attacking with the sharp end of the axe!

Shield defense. Turn it off whenever there aren't 10+ enemies ganging up on you warrior or a very hard hitting boss.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 02 avril 2011 - 03:42 .

[Jman5]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I have to agree with regards to the tank not being comparable to what Aveline can do. However, she is annoying so that might be motivation to do without her. Either way, a lot of people play without a dedicated tank.

I just wanted to add that sword and board gets boring quite quickly. Even the animation for the attack is boring. While a dual wield rogue or a two handed warrior or even a mage will exhibit a variety of swings and moves - Sword and Board only has a single thrusting motion, a poke if you will, that repeats over and over. Equip an Axe instead of the Sword and you still see the poking motion - like he is not attacking with the sharp end of the axe!

The biggest mistake people are making in this game is they are focusing too hard on making each character an extreme role. They'll build Aveline as an extreme tank with retardedly low damage. They'll make Anders just a healbot with no utility outside that. So you wind up with just 1 or 2 of your party doing 90% of the dps and then people wonder why they die after Varric gets assassinated.

This isn't WoW where you need to have a tank that can sit there getting smashed on for 15 minutes straight while relying on the endless mana pool of a dedicated healer. Everyone in the party should have competitive DPS and at least some survivability skills.

[ad1dash0lm3s]

After my first play through with Aveline and Anders being tank and heal I approached it differently the second play through when I used Fenris and Merrill and kills went a lot faster and easier. There were a little more close calls with death but I still made it mostly. So, there is no point of having a true, full out tank.

[Metalheadisme]

Jman5 wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I have to agree with regards to the tank not being comparable to what Aveline can do. However, she is annoying so that might be motivation to do without her. Either way, a lot of people play without a dedicated tank.

I just wanted to add that sword and board gets boring quite quickly. Even the animation for the attack is boring. While a dual wield rogue or a two handed warrior or even a mage will exhibit a variety of swings and moves - Sword and Board only has a single thrusting motion, a poke if you will, that repeats over and over. Equip an Axe instead of the Sword and you still see the poking motion - like he is not attacking with the sharp end of the axe!

The biggest mistake people are making in this game is they are focusing too hard on making each character an extreme role. They'll build Aveline as an extreme tank with retardedly low damage. They'll make Anders just a healbot with no utility outside that. So you wind up with just 1 or 2 of your party doing 90% of the dps and then people wonder why they die after Varric gets assassinated.

This isn't WoW where you need to have a tank that can sit there getting smashed on for 15 minutes straight while relying on the endless mana pool of a dedicated healer. Everyone in the party should have competitive DPS and at least some survivability skills.

And this is the problem... too many people are thinking that roles should be like that in an MMO. This is not an MMO. While some of the combat may resemble one, this game is more based in DnD than anything else - particularly class roles. A warrior isn't meant to  just be a meatshield much like a mage isn't meant to just be a heal/buff bot, nuker., or CC specialist. All, characters should contribute in a variety of ways.

[Atmosfear3]

Jman5 wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I have to agree with regards to the tank not being comparable to what Aveline can do. However, she is annoying so that might be motivation to do without her. Either way, a lot of people play without a dedicated tank.

I just wanted to add that sword and board gets boring quite quickly. Even the animation for the attack is boring. While a dual wield rogue or a two handed warrior or even a mage will exhibit a variety of swings and moves - Sword and Board only has a single thrusting motion, a poke if you will, that repeats over and over. Equip an Axe instead of the Sword and you still see the poking motion - like he is not attacking with the sharp end of the axe!

The biggest mistake people are making in this game is they are focusing too hard on making each character an extreme role. They'll build Aveline as an extreme tank with retardedly low damage. They'll make Anders just a healbot with no utility outside that. So you wind up with just 1 or 2 of your party doing 90% of the dps and then people wonder why they die after Varric gets assassinated.

This isn't WoW where you need to have a tank that can sit there getting smashed on for 15 minutes straight while relying on the endless mana pool of a dedicated healer. Everyone in the party should have competitive DPS and at least some survivability skills.

Indeed.

In fact its detrimental to make any one companion or Hawke fulfill one role only. Aveline for example is a terrible tank at holding aggro if you don't get any DPS talents for her because you sunk everything into defensive talents. Anders would just stand around doing nothing but staff attacks instead of using his Vengeance tree for damage spells in conjunction with his support talents.

[Feranel]

1) Spec SnS for all the attacking talents.
2) Spec for Second Wind
3) Spec Reaver grab Blood Frenzy (Duh)
3) Spec for Cleave/Claymore
4) Spec for Perception If you don't have a ring for it.
5) Spec Safeguard if you dont have a ring for it.
6) Spec Might or Control upgrade or Destroyer, then:
7) Spec Massacre
8) Berserker or Templar, w/e 50% spell damage reduction and a PBAoE are nice.

Get enough STR to keep your attack competetive and to wield weapons, get enough CON to wear armor, and keep enough WILL to use abilities.  ~24-27 or so.  Then sprinkle of STR and CON as you please.

Run around and hit things, turn on Shield Wall if an assassin is about to butt-pump you with his daggers, or you are getting rolled by a boss, otherwise, your shield is enough armor bonus, just hit stuff, keep enough stamina to keep using specials THEY HOLD AGGRO REAL GOOD.  You need to be able to consistently use them as they come off cooldown to hold aggro, you seriously can't hold aggro over special attacks from allies via auto attack alone, that's pretty much common sense.

Oh and watch out your team likes to run in front of Assault and Scatter, that's the only problem I have tanking on Nightmare. Heck, I don't even use Taunt, it's a waste of stamina when I could just be hitting something to get aggro, or knocking it clear across the room, I may spec out of it.

Modifié par Feranel, 02 avril 2011 - 07:39 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Feranel wrote...
Oh and watch out your team likes to run in front of Assault and Scatter, that's the only problem I have tanking on Nightmare. Heck, I don't even use Taunt, it's a waste of stamina when I could just be hitting something to get aggro, or knocking it clear across the room, I may spec out of it.

taunt has its moments, like when your pure dps mage crits a staggered chian lightning followed by a winters grasp crit on a big ol dragon. or gathering initial groups for a quick bash/scatter. pulling templars/rogues/mabari off companions with out killing them. it interupts spells.

[Roxlimn]

The best, most sustainable way to generate and retain threat is to attack and do damage. This applies also to S&B Hawke, and even to Aveline. Hawke is superior in natural threat generation and damage dealing because he can get Reaver and Berserker trees, whereas Aveline's main boost will come mainly from Vanguard skills.

SnS Hawke's main deficiency compared to 2H Weapon Hawke is that his attack arc is smaller in scope and reach. As long as you can minimize that disadvantage, SnS Hawke is just as much of a damage monster as 2H Hawke. Arguably, he's better at dealing with Elites and Bosses, because he's got more defensive Rune slots, more armor, and single target damage is better with Assault/Battery.

Catching a bunched-up group of enemies with Assault/Battery while buffed with the full boost regalia will change your mind on the damage dealing capability of SnS Hawke.

For tanking, the bulk of the effective skills are in Shield and Defender trees. Aveline can take more, but at that point, it's just defensive overkill.

I don't get why so many players just turn on Shield Defense even when Hawke isn't under attack. SnS's Closing Attack look so frickin cool, and the normal SnS attack animations are more interesting.

[stjasonl1]

If I make a SS tank I will probably end up controlling one of my party members tanks are all about sustained abilities. I would play that way just to hear party banter I didn't hear.

[Loc'n'lol]

Have a rogue with fully upgraded fatiguing fog & confusion to setup aoe disorients for your assault and scatter combos. Great to quickly deal with waves of average enemies.

[Feranel]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Feranel wrote...
Oh and watch out your team likes to run in front of Assault and Scatter, that's the only problem I have tanking on Nightmare. Heck, I don't even use Taunt, it's a waste of stamina when I could just be hitting something to get aggro, or knocking it clear across the room, I may spec out of it.

taunt has its moments, like when your pure dps mage crits a staggered chian lightning followed by a winters grasp crit on a big ol dragon. or gathering initial groups for a quick bash/scatter. pulling templars/rogues/mabari off companions with out killing them. it interupts spells.

It's rare, but yes I do use Taunt.   Even then, pulling mobs off of people as SnS isn't too hard, SnS doesn't have Giants Reach, so you don't need to worry about Scatter, Assault, or Shield Bash clipping through the target and killing your ally on the other side like you do with 2Hander.

I tend to use Taunt when I may be missing one or two mobs, and I want to use Holy Smite, as it tends to position them juuuuuust right.

Modifié par Feranel, 02 avril 2011 - 04:44 .

[skunkdoctor]

Dr0x wrote...

For everyone who is going through the game with either a 2h tank or no tank, what difficulty do you play on? I find it hard to believe that any group without a tank could survive on hard or nightmare.

Um, apparently this build is capable of destroying the game even on nightmare without pausing, and I can speak to its effectiveness on hard (ridiculously easy frankly). So disbelieve all you want, or you could watch the video. /sings "then I saw him play, now I'm a believer. Not a trace of doubt in my mind".

social.bioware.com/forum/Dragon-Age-II/Dragon-Age-II-Characters-classes-and-Builds-Spoilers/The-Ultimate-Vanguard-Nightmare-Warrior-Domination---6396096-1.html

Modifié par skunkdoctor, 02 avril 2011 - 05:33 .

[Feranel]

skunkdoctor wrote...

Dr0x wrote...

For everyone who is going through the game with either a 2h tank or no tank, what difficulty do you play on? I find it hard to believe that any group without a tank could survive on hard or nightmare.

Um, apparently this build is capable of destroying the game even on nightmare, and I can speak to its effectiveness on hard (ridiculously easy frankly):

social.bioware.com/forum/Dragon-Age-II/Dragon-Age-II-Characters-classes-and-Builds-Spoilers/The-Ultimate-Vanguard-Nightmare-Warrior-Domination---6396096-1.html

Also, the above quoted build and tactics can be easily modified into an SnS build.  the differences are really very minimal, SnS takes slightly less damage, deals slightly less damage, barely.  Has the added utility of Shield Wall, loses range and swing arc.

[skunkdoctor]

Feranel wrote...

skunkdoctor wrote...

Dr0x wrote...

For everyone who is going through the game with either a 2h tank or no tank, what difficulty do you play on? I find it hard to believe that any group without a tank could survive on hard or nightmare.

Um, apparently this build is capable of destroying the game even on nightmare, and I can speak to its effectiveness on hard (ridiculously easy frankly):

social.bioware.com/forum/Dragon-Age-II/Dragon-Age-II-Characters-classes-and-Builds-Spoilers/The-Ultimate-Vanguard-Nightmare-Warrior-Domination---6396096-1.html

Also, the above quoted build and tactics can be easily modified into an SnS build.  the differences are really very minimal, SnS takes slightly less damage, deals slightly less damage, barely.  Has the added utility of Shield Wall, loses range and swing arc.

I plan on trying S&S with it next, but good god on hard a death hex and the 2h alone were just insane. Enemy waves would just be like "SWEET JESUS WHA HAPPEN" before exploding in satisfying blood showers. I will miss giant's reach and whirlwind. On my mage playthrough I'm building both fenris and aveline like this, and am largely ignoring aveline because she annoys me and I had her with me my entire first playthrough.

[Chromie]

Sheylan wrote...

bluecapsule6 wrote...

It's pretty funny how all the non-mage companions have their own special trees that are way better then any specializations Hawke can get.

Isabela's is sorta *meh*. Not bad, but, nowhere near as good as, say, Varric's.



And of course Anders and Merril get completely screwed.

Are you serious?

Merrill is a BEAST! She can become a total monster on the battlefield just level Magic and Consitution. Anders switching between Vengence and Pancae (sp?) and he will almost never run ou of mana.

Your just not playing them right.

[spudrow2005]

yes for the most part aveline is the optimal tank in this game BUT if you are playing on normal hawke can tank for most the game as a dps warrior.