263 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

b00mQQ wrote...
It will. Eventually they'll quit trolling and they'll go off to play the game. Happens everytime. Same exact thing happened with the launch of Dragon Age: Origins, but a few monhs later when there were hundreds of mods out to change aspects they didn't like then they thought it was the greatest game to ever exist. People totally forget that Origins was garbage out of the box, and they're comparing an out of the box version of Dragon Age 2 next to a 2 year old patched Origins with an expansion pack, hundreds of mods, and loads of DLC.

I give it a month, and the same people here crying because Dragon Age 2 put sand in their vagina will be on here praising at how awesome Dragon Age 2 is and how they can't get enough.

Actually no.
IIRC, the negative commentary on Origins was FAR less than what we see here. And the polls confirm that.

Now I'm not as smitten with Origins as some other peopel here, but it didn't split the community in half. It didn't cause an avalanche of word-of-mouth bad revies or poor user scores.

If the complaints die down in a month, it won't be because the game magicly became great..it will be becase people quit completely.

[Lennonkun]

ExtinctRPG wrote...

Sir Wise wrote...

PC gamers are good at one thing and its ****ing

They're also good at pirating if I might add.

Console piracy is just as widespread, if not more so, than PC piracy.

Also as said the 360 and PS3 copies of DA2 were leaked as early as I think Wednesday before release. The PC version wasn't playable untill hours before release.

[bladehawks]

Dirty **** wrote...

Look man, I've been a BioWare fan as long as you have but I have to call it like I see it: Dragon age 2 has great potential. HOWEVER, it WAS rushed, either by EA's greed, or BioWare's overconfidence...

I am confident they will not make this mistake again with DA3...if they do, I will simply have to move on and accept that one of my favorite video game companies is no longer the company I came to love.

Thank You EA.

            
  
the most likely symptom is ea's greed since a portion does go to them but over all i agree with you IT WAS RUSHED a hurry meet the dead line might also have been there  i wouldnt mind waiting for game just as long as its kick butt look at duke nukem for instance

[NinaDA]

I'm with you, OP. I don't think DA2 is as good as DAO, but this relentless bashing, name-calling, blaming-it-all-on-EA is just infantile and unfair. If you didn't like it, criticize it in Chris' review thread in a balanced, civil fashion and then move on.

[Shirosaki17]

Big Blue Car wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

i would be interested to know why people think constructive critique does any good whatsoever ?

You dont actually think developers come here and feel proud when reading a few threads on how people like a game ?
its a business/factory floor system,and the management will only react to bad publicity,as thats all that effects profits.
you can backslap as much as you like,the people your backslapping never read it,and never care if you like a game or not.
what they care about is if you BUY it,and then its only thier bonuses they care about.

the only people reading this forum are the members,complainers and backslappers only.
your deluding yourselves if you think any suggestions or critique are ever seen by anyone of importance.
that was in the old days,when devs had a vested interest and a say in what direction a game went.

so all the "whiner" bashing is pointless,as they are the only ones having any effect on the next release.

Not really, I was personally sassed by the lead designer of DA2 on this forum. They do read what we say, some of it anyway. That means that if we can have a culture here that encourages intelligent discussion and constructive criticism then it could be a useful resource for the devs to find ongoing, smart feedback on their decisions.

It's something worth aiming for, god knows the devs need all the help they can get based on this latest showing. 

They may read the forums but they don't take to heart what anyone who is critical of them says. If you were there when ME came out and then here when ME2 came out you'd understand that. Yes in a month or 2 when nobody is playing the game anymore (except fans) people who have been complaining and are upset with the game will be gone. They will have moved on, and fans of the game will probably still be here discussing what they love about the game, making 300 page character fan threads, etc. But that doesn't really make them right or the direction they are taking gaming right. No matter how much it sells or how high it's rated.

Personally, I think they look at their feedback stats and use those more for development now. 95% of people died on this encounter, make it easier. 10% of people used this feature, get rid of it and call it streamlined, etc.

[billy the squid]

I think the comments by Inon Zur in the IGN interview shows one of the overiding problems of the game

http://uk.music.ign..../1154594p1.html
IGN: After the game is finished, do you go back through a play it again with all of the music in place?

Zur: Sure thing. I'm actually really anxious for the game right now, so I can pop it in and start playing. I'm really looking forward to see it. I know there are a few bugs that still need to be fixed. Unlike other titles from Bioware, this [score] was kind of a rush job. EA really wanted to capitalize on the success of Origins, so the game was really being pushed hard to be released now. So I'd like to know if there are bugs, or if there's anything we could patch or fix. [Editor's note: Zur is speaking about bugs in the score only; he had no involvement with the rest of the game's development.]

True he is talking about the score, but it is quite illustrative of the the game mechanics, style and implementation feel rushed and half finished whilst despite having the potential to be so much better. It appears to be a case of the idea looking good on paper, but not being effective in game as such we end up with a gutted RPG crammed with overflourished combat and repetitious gamplay.

And I played DAO on the 36O, which despite certain short commings, so i have been told, vs the
Pc I still loved it!

This is not so much a case of alienating PC players, but includes those whom enjoyed the RPG genre across all platforms. ME2 only had reminants of RPG whilst leaning heavily towards a 3rd person shooter, but it worked because it did it well and i really did enjoy playing it repeatedly.

The main issue may be that DA2 tries to be all things to all players, limiting the appeal to the RPG genre and the action orientated 3rdprsn/ FPs degenerating into a confusing mish mash without finding its feet nor playing to the strengths laid down by Origins.

Just some thoughts, from thinking over my time playing, probably i will come up with something more coherent later.

[Maverick827]

cosgamer wrote...

The barrage may have died down and a lot of customers lost at that point, but in no way will you hear the majority of anyone exclaiming what a great game it is with the rush hack job they've put out.

Well, of course you won't hear it. People don't go out of their way to be vocal about liking something as much as they do about disliking it. You're basically the poster child for that little fact.

There are hundreds of thousands of consumers out there who will never touch these forums and who are throughly enjoying the game.

[ObserverStatus]

Personally I don't mind the fact that this game is very different from DA:O. If I wanted to buy the same game twice I could always get the ultimate edition.

[Waage25]

Maverick827 wrote...

cosgamer wrote...

The barrage may have died down and a lot of customers lost at that point, but in no way will you hear the majority of anyone exclaiming what a great game it is with the rush hack job they've put out.

Well, of course you won't hear it. People don't go out of their way to be vocal about liking something as much as they do about disliking it. You're basically the poster child for that little fact.

There are hundreds of thousands of consumers out there who will never touch these forums and who are throughly enjoying the game.

What a load of crap.

YES you will have more negative feedback in the start, but it will be outweighed by the positive very fast on most message boards and so far it dose not look like there is a lot of "positive" things to talk about.

Take Retribution from Relic. After it came out the board was filled with strategy talks, story talk, ideas and sharing of all kind of things.

SO in summation if you make a great game very few complains and when you make a bad game a lot of people complain.

Modifié par Waage25, 14 mars 2011 - 02:33 .

[Foolsfolly]

They [devs] may read the forums but they don't take to heart what anyone who is critical of them says.

I disagree. When I played ME2 I got the distinct impression that everything wrong with ME1 had been fixed. I was grateful that they listened and made one of the best games of the last few years.

[ReinaHW]

EA are the ones I blame for DA2 being so rushed, and for the whole 'tiny text' thing that ME2 and DA2 suffer from. Surely it can't be hard for some EA fat cat to consider the very simple notion that not everyone has, can afford nor wants an HDTV in order to play a game, unless it is hard for them to see that.

I'm still holding out hope that ME2 will receive a fix for it's stupidly tiny text, I would like to finsh that game off and I can't since when I try to read any of my mission objectives I get a headache from the tiny text.

I am annoyed at how rushed DA2 feels, it's an alright game, not the best I've played of Bioware's, but it's an alright game, average at best. Another year or so in development and it could have been fairly impressive.
But EA is well known for pushing games out well before they're ready, I had hoped they had stopped doing such a stupid practice, but they haven't. Rushing an RPG out is a bad idea because unlike a shooter or some yearly football rehash, an RPG needs time to be refined while a shooter/football rehash is little more than the same old game all the time in the core concepts while the graphics get a tweak and any information is updated between rehash.

An RPG though is something different and can never be rushed out, yet an RPG has been pushed out before it was ready and it suffers from that.
I do hope that EA has gotten the message from those of us who are understandably annoyed at this, but if they'll listen and not push for ME3 and any other RPG's to be released before they're ready, that's another thing entirely.

An RPG can be like a story, I'm a writer so I know about writing stories all too well from over twenty years of writing, you can never rush a story. You have the core elements, the basics, the foundation and the concepts. You work with them, see what works, what doesn't, but never, at any time, must you rush the story because if you do then all you'll get is a mess.
Art can't be rushed, no matter how much people may demand due to their impatience or greed. You can't rush something that needs time to be done just right.

So please, Bioware, fix ME2's tiny text please, fix DA2 as best you can so that it doesn't feel so rushed and please don't rush your games out. Previous Bioware games have been masterpieces in every sense of the word, and deserving of that title.
Hopefully we'll keep seeing masterpieces as long as they aren't rushed like DA2 has been.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 14 mars 2011 - 03:08 .

[rebeltube]

ReinaHW wrote...

EA are the ones I blame for DA2 being so rushed, and for the whole 'tiny text' thing that ME2 and DA2 suffer from. Surely it can't be hard for some EA fat cat to consider the very simple notion that not everyone has, can afford nor wants an HDTV in order to play a game, unless it is hard for them to see that.

I'm still holding out hope that ME2 will receive a fix for it's stupidly tiny text, I would like to finsh that game off and I can't since when I try to read any of my mission objectives I get a headache from the tiny text.

I am annoyed at how rushed DA2 feels, it's an alright game, not the best I've played of Bioware's, but it's an alright game, average at best. Another year or so in development and it could have been fairly impressive.
But EA is well known for pushing games out well before they're ready, I had hoped they had stopped doing such a stupid practice, but they haven't. Rushing an RPG out is a bad idea because unlike a shooter or some yearly football rehash, an RPG needs time to be refined while a shooter/football rehash is little more than the same old game all the time in the core concepts while the graphics get a tweak and any information is updated between rehash.

An RPG though is something different and can never be rushed out, yet an RPG has been pushed out before it was ready and it suffers from that.
I do hope that EA has gotten the message from those of us who are understandably annoyed at this, but if they'll listen and not push for ME3 and any other RPG's to be released before they're ready, that's another thing entirely.

An RPG can be like a story, I'm a writer so I know about writing stories all too well from over twenty years of writing, you can never rush a story. You have the core elements, the basics, the foundation and the concepts. You work with them, see what works, what doesn't, but never, at any time, must you rush the story because if you do then all you'll get is a mess.
Art can't be rushed, no matter how much people may demand due to their impatience or greed. You can't rush something that needs time to be done just right.

So please, Bioware, fix ME2's tiny text please, fix DA2 as best you can so that it doesn't feel so rushed and please don't rush your games out. Previous Bioware games have been masterpieces in every sense of the word, and deserving of that title.
Hopefully we'll keep seeing masterpieces as long as they aren't rushed like DA2 has been.

This!

[ClanCarrig]

I agree with the original poster. Unfortunately, the Internet runs on knee-jerk criticism and hyperbole. If you want to see it get really ugly, find a forum where people argue DnD 3.5 vs 4e.

I don't usually look at reactions like this, but I loved the game and this kind of response surprised me at first. But then I look at the fan bases of things I dislike and understand what it would be like for them if I started howling what I think is ironclad fact despite being mere opinion.

If I listed every Bioware game I played and had to pick the thing I loved most, it would be story every time. Minimize the things that take away fromthat and you have a winning formula. For me, ME2 and DA2 are the pinnacle and anything they do to improve should build on those games--but that's just my opinion.

[Mr. Hawke]

 Frankly this is the way it is, the game just came out and both sides want their voice heard while doing as much as is allowed (and not allowed) on these forums to silence the otherside. On one side your gonna have the people who like/loved this game, they are going to make threads and praise Bioware on a job well done, they may or may not point out to them about any flaws in the game, that is up to the person. Then they are gonna insult the otherside and demand the mods ban them on the grounds of trolling, even if they aren't.

On the otherside you have the people who dislike/hate ( or downright scorn) the game, they are going to make threads about how bad/horrible the game is and scorn Bioware for doing a bad/horrible job, they may or may not point out to them the good in the game, that is also up to the person. Then they are gonna insult the otherside and demand the mods to ban them on the grounds of them trying to block their right to criticize, even if they are doing so horribly.

Both sides are gonna play the victim card, both sides are going to demand the otherside see it thier way and only thier way and both sides are going to call on the others love for Bioware. Ones gonna say: " If you were a true fan you would praise Bioware, you would be happy they made us another game and show them love and nothing but love". Where the other would say: " If you were a true fan you would scorn Bioware, you would show no pity and make this game fail any way possible".

That is just the way it is, these are gamers and they want things their way and only their way or so help them they will cry, rant, rage and throw a fit about it . Some aren't like this but sadly a lot (and the most voical) are.
I loved ME2 and think DA2 is a ok game even with it's many flaws, Bioware is known for it's long line of great and quality games but even they can mess up, the people at Bioware are humans just like us and none of us are perfect in any way, shape or form.

Now if you will excuse me, I have just made both sides angry and injected sense and reason into the topic. I must go into hiding. Boo has already taken care of the details, you understand yes? 

Modifié par Mr. Hawke, 14 mars 2011 - 08:48 .

[mrpuzzle]

Jono1319 wrote...

I'm having a really hard time understanding people who can defend Bioware (EA) right now. I too am one of the "fanboys" who started with the BG series, so of course I would be the first to back them, right? With a good game absolutely, but this a ok game at best.

The reason I am ok with bashing Bioware right now is because they completely asked for it. How could they honestly put out a 30 hour game (which no one has mentioned yet that i have seen) and almost complete game based on quest system based on 1 city out on the shelves?

This whole crap about them needing money and it's hard for companies to make money is bs. Tell Bethesda and Valve that you need to make an Elder Scrolls/Half Life game in a little over a year. They would laugh and say no we want to put a quality game out there. I know not everyone loves those games but they can respect the hundreds of hours the Elder Scrolls games have as well as the quality in the half life series.

When Bioware puts a 30 hour game on the shelves it is a sad day. I thought the 30 hour awakening add on was bad for $40 bucks...

PLEASE Bioware make it right with downloadable content or future titles.

The good: I absolutely LOVE the combat on the 360. Also, I appreciate the addition of Maker's Sigh. So far, the voices, acting, etc, have been on par or above DA:O. Thumbs up Bioware! 

The bad: 30 hours of gameplay? The main quest is mainly in one city? Boo! 

Oblilvion (100+ hours, Bethesda) was in development for 4 years, sold 3 million copies within the first year, and got 9/10 rating on most respected gaming websites. Dragon Age: Origins (100 hours) was in development for 6 years, and got 9/10 rating. Mass Effect 1/2 (50 hours) were 2 years each, both got 9/10. Blizzard tends to develop their games for at least 2 years, and they have yet to make one that bombed. Their games may not have as much depth or story as Bioware games, but they still offer a lot of gameplay (100+ hours).

Bioware knows what they're doing, they just need the time to do it EA!

[Turnip Root]

I think the thing I really like about Dragon Age II is that even though it's smaller scale than it's predecessor I feel like I'm in more control over the world I'm in and that my actions have greater consequences.
I think had tried to match the level of epicness of the original Dragon Age then it would've felt contrived. I feel that my role in the game's storyline is much more personal than in the original Dragon Age.

I think Dragon Age II will be remembered as a bit of a cult classic amongst Bioware fans who are not afraid of change. I remember when Resident Evil 4 came out a lot of people hated it just because it was different but it redefined the genre and is one of the best games ever made.

Dragon Age II isn't as revolutionary as Resident Evil 4 of course, but it is commendable that it doesn't feel like a rehash.

[Shirosaki17]

Foolsfolly wrote...

They [devs] may read the forums but they don't take to heart what anyone who is critical of them says.

I disagree. When I played ME2 I got the distinct impression that everything wrong with ME1 had been fixed. I was grateful that they listened and made one of the best games of the last few years.

Yes they improved the gameplay vastly, but stripped a lot of RP elements out. Not to mention the story in ME2 sucked. Go play or read the story in ME. Then play the first 2 to 3 hours of ME2 and remember that nothing you did in ME mattered. The ending didn't matter. You're still playing the same story regardless of your choices or actions in the first game.

The story was terrible and they used lame excuses to get rid of any evidence of Reapers so you could basically play the same premise from ME. You also had to join Cerberus regardless. They could have done much more with the story in ME2, but they didn't. They hyped the import features, and they didn't matter, not to mention you couldn't even choose your past for ME2 in a new game if you didn't import. I assure you when ME3 comes out, you will be able to defeat the Reapers regardless of the choices you made in ME1 or 2.

To relate this to DA. It appears they are using the same formula for the DA games (hence not listening to constructive criticism, just doing their own thing) of stripping out as much RP to cut costs while improving combat to appeal to gamers. It appears people are upset about this and it didn't work as well as it did with ME2 because DA is more of a RPG and not a shooter.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 14 mars 2011 - 06:40 .

[bzombo]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I don't know about you OP, but Bioware is not my customer. I don't need to please them. It's the other way around.

This is where people go wrong and become way too self absorbed as consumers. Bioware does not have to please YOU. They have to please enough people to buy their games so they can profit and continue to make games. If YOU aren't pleased, that is just fine as long as there's another 3 to 4 million who are pleased. That's where all the self important people on here are going wrong. Bioware develops games. They need to sell to as many people as possible. That's it. Whether it is to you or Joe Shmo halfway around the world means nothing. Game companies do not develop games hoping JohnnyDollar is happy. They want 4 million people from anywhere to be happy and buy the game and continue to buy new ones. If you're not pleased, then by all means move on. Why is it so many on here feel the need to make life miserable for themselves and those who post here? 

[Turnip Root]

I just hope this game sells well enough to be profitable. The negative user reviews, as hyperbolic and trollish as they are may still yet convince some people not to buy it.

I unlike some think Bioware has benefitted from it's partnership with EA but EA does not easily forgive a company that releases a poor selling game.

I think if this game sells poorly it will be the end of the Dragon Age franchise forever. If Mass Effect 3 also sells poorly then I believe Bioware will be dissolved.

[misterdde]

Their is one thing most people don't semm's to know. When you are making a new game, the first few month ( something the first year ) is only used to set the univers in place. Then you start crafting the game by itself. So you can't really tell if a game will be good or bad until it's too late to change it. And most of the changes was motivated by what bioware saw within the community. So my point of view is this one :

now that bioware saw what was good in both da:o and da 2, they will be able to mix it and bring us a shining golden dragon age 3. Well, IF and only IF EA don't rush them this time and don't ask for an " xbox game playable on computer ". IMO, they should aim for computer first so the game could be more " powerfull " rather than crafting an xbox game and dump it on computer, drowing down the potential.

But all hope is not lost yet for da2. Because da:o got a solid team of modder who are eager to have fun with this one... they already started it, and believe me, if EA don't realse the upgrade for the toolset, we will gladly do it for them It's just a matter of time

[gingerbill]

winterborn_89 wrote...

This game is terrible... Bioware must be held responsible for their part. ****ty game = **** in yo face.

you some up alot of the people who hate this game but your very posts show that you are someone it's good to disagree with , i know my opinion is correct because i disagree with you .  Re-read your own posts .... are those the posts of an intelligent person? when people like you hate the game it confirms its good.

OP i agree , though i doubt bioware take the extreme critics seriously , when you sell millions and 50 people cry about it then its not something to make you worry at all. Theres some fair negative posts and comments but anyone who just dismisses it as crap i just ignore and im sure bioware do to. Half these people still play the game anyway , hehe.

[Jono1319]

Turnip Root wrote...

I just hope this game sells well enough to be profitable. The negative user reviews, as hyperbolic and trollish as they are may still yet convince some people not to buy it.

I unlike some think Bioware has benefitted from it's partnership with EA but EA does not easily forgive a company that releases a poor selling game.

I think if this game sells poorly it will be the end of the Dragon Age franchise forever. If Mass Effect 3 also sells poorly then I believe Bioware will be dissolved.

Would it be terrible of me to hope that DA2 doesn't sell well?  Many people have already said that the game was rushed which i agree on.  What would it say to EA if they can get a game out in a year and it sells?  That will tell EA to do the exact same thing with DA3!  The Dragon age series is not going away from what I have heard it sends on a cliff hanger.  My theory would say the Bioware would go to EA and say "fellas we need more time for DA3 to sell more copies"  EA - "Ok ok ok just make sure it sells more copies this time around!!!"

Don't give a dog a treat for pooping on the floor. 

[PuppetSoul]

Turnip Root wrote...

Zelda II and Mario 2 are considered by most to be inferior to the original games but they're still nonetheless considered solid games that are worthy additions to their respective franchises.  I imagine Dragon Age II will be remembered the same way.

A arrogantly bad sequel caused by trying to change the core gameplay of an IP to a completely different genre?

You know, if I didn't know better, I'd say they were actually TRYING to make a Zelda 2: I mean, if Nintendo can survive the backlash of TWO terrible sequels and still have a rabid fanbase so devoted that they buy up the platformer equivalent of an annual Madden installment...  why can't Bioware?

[SorrowAndJoy7]

Bioware's supposedly "dumb downed" versions of their games are still better than what almost any other rpg company is putting out. Personally I think ME2 and DA2 are great games. A lot of fan's would seem to prefer Western RPG's fail much like JRPG's have in being stagnant and appealing only to niche crowds due to their lack of evolution. People have no sense of business and rather than occasionally dealing with something that helps others get into the genre they rage and cry. Bioware pulling people into the genre sets the stage for many more future games like Origins or ME to come out from not only Bioware but other companies who see how the genre is growing rather than stagnating. DA2 does a great job of pulling others into the genre and still is a great tactical game when you turn the difficulty up, it's a shame so few take the time to see it.