To me I found the characters in dragon age 2 to be much more animated, for instance, you walk in on them having conversations between themselves in cut scenes, and you, you rude PC you, you walk in on them and they cut off. Example, Varrick worrying over Merril and her Mirror, I've even had Isabela chat up Fenris for sex! So besides I would say Alistair, Shale and Morrigan, the DA2 NPC's are much more likeable, and animated. Oghren anyone...
These people are not simply there for you to be the centre of the universe, with every act switch you find out that shock and horror, they have lives outside of waiting for you to return to camp to sell crap. They disagree moreso with your decisions, or agree. I found them much more realistic, more grounded, more dynamic. Well besides Fenris, the token japanime character of doom and broodish gloom.
I think it comes down to if you want to be able to trigger stuff by hammering on a select string of commands to produce the result with the character then and there, which was available in dragon age origins, where you could cycle easily through triggered responces and your mute robot warden got approve or disapprove. Or now you interact, personal quest, argue, even turn on each other.
I found it a big improvement, I mean sure would have loved more interpersonal banter, but sometimes succinct quality is better.
Companions, or why DA:O was better than DA2.
Débuté par
FeriIuce
, mars 13 2011 01:23
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#227
Posté 16 mars 2011 - 01:00
foam
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I suspect that the main reason why I wasn't completely satisfied with companion interaction is that, while I did take my time playing through all the side quests and exploring Kirkwall with different party members, I must have missed a lot of the party banter. That, or it didn't activate very often for me (which would be odd). After browsing through youtube for party banter videos I feel A LOT more connected to my companions. So in the end I rather like this approach, basically.
Though I must say that I loved how funny and bizarre the one-on-one conversations could get in DAO. I kinda missed that in DA2. But, then again, the more I listen to the party banter, the more I realize that the only difference is that they have those conversations with each other rather than with Hawke. I'm ok with that, I guess. Fenris telling jokes is a bit like Sten liking cookies. It's just presented differently.
Hopefully, Bioware will be able to find some way to re-create the illusion of more dialogue from DAO, while keeping the more cinematic style from DA2, as well as the improved party banter. Hmm... I wish I could be more helpful.
Though I must say that I loved how funny and bizarre the one-on-one conversations could get in DAO. I kinda missed that in DA2. But, then again, the more I listen to the party banter, the more I realize that the only difference is that they have those conversations with each other rather than with Hawke. I'm ok with that, I guess. Fenris telling jokes is a bit like Sten liking cookies. It's just presented differently.
Hopefully, Bioware will be able to find some way to re-create the illusion of more dialogue from DAO, while keeping the more cinematic style from DA2, as well as the improved party banter. Hmm... I wish I could be more helpful.
#228
Posté 16 mars 2011 - 01:13
Shepard Lives
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My two cents?
I much prefer the way companions are handled in DAII. I did not have an issue with DAO, but after playing this game I can see how forced it feels to shower everyone with gifts and then make "camp rounds" to see if anyone has anything new to say.
I love the multiple quests, and I love how dialogue is spread out. Hearing the companions' opinions on their personal life and on the stuff we see during the adventure is so much better than your PC standing in front of a firelight as you mindlessly click "How did you become a bard?" and "What was life like in the Circle?". I suspect the more cinematic conversations have a part in this.
Not that I'm slamming the DAO companions, or their dialogue. Those were amazing. Point is, this system is even better. Like, a million times better. Especially the multiple personal quests.
I'd be pretty peeved if Bioware decided to go back to the "A single personal quest and a crapton of dialogue at the player's home base" formula in future games.
/opinion
I much prefer the way companions are handled in DAII. I did not have an issue with DAO, but after playing this game I can see how forced it feels to shower everyone with gifts and then make "camp rounds" to see if anyone has anything new to say.
I love the multiple quests, and I love how dialogue is spread out. Hearing the companions' opinions on their personal life and on the stuff we see during the adventure is so much better than your PC standing in front of a firelight as you mindlessly click "How did you become a bard?" and "What was life like in the Circle?". I suspect the more cinematic conversations have a part in this.
Not that I'm slamming the DAO companions, or their dialogue. Those were amazing. Point is, this system is even better. Like, a million times better. Especially the multiple personal quests.
I'd be pretty peeved if Bioware decided to go back to the "A single personal quest and a crapton of dialogue at the player's home base" formula in future games.
/opinion
#229
Posté 16 mars 2011 - 01:32
PSUHammer
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Shepard Lives wrote...
My two cents?
I much prefer the way companions are handled in DAII. I did not have an issue with DAO, but after playing this game I can see how forced it feels to shower everyone with gifts and then make "camp rounds" to see if anyone has anything new to say.
I tend to agree with you here, but one thing they can change is to have MORE of the conversations in Act 1 to help establish some of these relationships. I was running around with Fenris and Merrill wondering why I was gaining rivalry with them as I didn't really know what made them ticked. It made sense by Act 3, but by having some more front loaded character establishment, it would go a long way to feeling like you know them.
#230
Posté 16 mars 2011 - 02:03
Sjofn
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Dean_the_Young wrote...
And just to throw out a third thing, you could throw in a 'spend time with your pal' dialogue/fade to black. Nothing fancy, even just a line, but reflective of your current state of relations: Rival, Friend, Neither, Love Interest. For love interests it might be your 'let's spend time together' fade to black, but everyone could have a basis for a platonic fade to black: Merril tells you about the Dalish, knock back a few beers with Isabella, play cards with Varric, brood with Fenrir...
I would've liked that, personally.
It's tough, I think I'd prefer to keep DA2's way of having my companions pipe up a *lot* during quests (I love when they pipe up!) if I had to decide between that and "talk about something generic at any time," but it does make it feel a bit more like you're actually with the people if you can drop by and say hey or talk about something without having to head back to their base. Ideally it would be some happy medium between DA:O and DA2, as the camp rounds *were* sort of silly, but at the same time never getting to talk to a companion unless *they* wanted to talk to me felt silly too.
Pluuuuus the DA2 way didn't have the occassional hilarious "whoops, I just clicked on Alistair instead of this locked chest, and now he's giving me a rose while we're both covered in werewolf guts" or "whoops, I just clicked on Leliana instead of that dead body and now she's accusing me of cheating on her because she's decided we're in a relationship all on her own ... AGAIN" moments. I can see prefering not to have those, but I thought they were funny. I especially enjoyed when Alistair wanted to talk about our RELATIONSHIP and what Zevran might mean to me while we were hipdeep in broodmother gore.
Modifié par Sjofn, 16 mars 2011 - 02:06 .
#231
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 10:53
Stephanid98
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sonieb33 wrote...
......I have one more complaint to add to the above however (I haven't yet seen anyone mention it so far, sorry if I missed it): What the heck happened to the HUMOR?? Like I said before, I've been playing this for about 11 hours now and I have laughed maybe once. With DA:O I would quite often bust out laughing or I'd hear someone in the other room laugh at something a character would say. What happened?? It was one of our favorite parts of the game! I spent literally HOURS going out of my way to milk every last comment and conversation out of every character just to hear what they'd say next!
After playing DA2 I've gone back and am playing DAO...again. And YES, as I play I realize how much I loved this!! I"ve laughed so much over what gets said and geez, I've played this game already a number of times and here I am still laughing!
in DA2 I was questing, in Origins...I was building relationships.
I've come to realize that's the type of game I like - building relationships, something more than just a 'questing game'. Something that will immerse me in the story, the characters, the era. When I look back on the games I truly love they all seem to have that element of immersing me in all those facets. Mass Effect, Dragon Age origins, KOTOR, a certain Final Fantasy.
That's what I love - and I hadn't expected it in DAO when I bought it but there it was...and I guess I got greedy because it fed my desire & hope that more games would follow that path and realize it was the immersion in the story that made it great.
I suppose I just expected DA2 to be like that and it wasn't. It was the typical game. And yes, it's good, but it doesn't have that all encompassing element I was hoping for - it's just a good game, with a great ending.
Absolutely worth playing!! Just not what I was hoping for............
#232
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 08:05
bananflugan14
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This has probably been said before, but I have been browsing this thread for days so i can't actually remember.
I just wanted to share my personal view.
DA:O was the first game I ever played from Bioware and the companion interaction to be had was completely new for me, as were the romances etc. I found it very refreshing, very exciting and lots of fun.
I fell in love with DA:O and think i did finish it in total 10 times and it was mostly because of the companions. I wanted new romances, new epilogues, new reactions to different choices you did not make in the previous one, and also because well, I loved the game itself for being awesome.
Anyway back to the point.
DA2 was a very enjoyable game in many ways and some ways not so much. The thing I looked forward to the most was the companion interaction and hoping it would not be like Awakening.
What I did love was the new approval/rivalry system. Also the way that it "locks" once you reach the maximum friendship/rivalry. In Origins I did sometimes feel I was on "tip toes" around certain members no matter how much approval you had just to not get disapproval for example when the gifts had run out and there was nothing more to talk about with that particular character. And I loved having it on maximum.
I also appreciate the fact there were less gifts, but the ones you could give gave way more impact then it did in Origins, (obviously not including for example, Sten's sword, Alistair's mothers amulet, Andraste's grace etc.) But the gifts that just got you approval felt like a very easy way just to get as highest you could on the approval meter without really doing anything. For example in my games I was the "goodie" person which basically meant that Morrigan always disapproved of my actions which made me a sad panda, but there were so many gifts for her so it was just easy to get it back up again by just handing her the shinies. Also the amount of gifts in Origins was sometimes overwhelming if I didn't have my guide next to me showing who to give stuff to.
Of course what I miss in DA2 was the lack of interaction you could have with your characters, and yes it makes sense to have them living in their own place but it was always annoying when you got new weapons/shields/daggers etc. that you had to take sometimes party members you didn't really want just to SEE if the weapons were an upgrade. Maybe I'm just lazy that way as well. I spent a lot of time in my camp just fixing my companions armor, enchanting weapons. Although I did love what Bioware did with the outfit, and that you could not change your party members "special look" I could never see for example Isabella starting running around in a leather armor that for example was in Origins.
Maybe that was a bit off topic ^^
What I would have wished for DA2 was just to have a few conversations in Act 1 specially to know your companions, as that Act is sooooo long. To have those few conversations about random things to know where they stand, what they like. I mean in Origins you can talk to Morrigan about her life in the Wilds, and to Leliana about shoes. All I knew in Act 1 was that Fenris hated mages guts and well since I could never have a conversation with him to see why in Act 1 or ask questions about it. It didn't really show until Act 2. I couldn't care less if the random conversations with people would give approval or rivalry points, because it might be irrelevant, but I would love just to ask more about it, not to wait maybe 10 hours to find out the "whys". Anders was a bit easier to understand with Justice merging with him that he became more...ehm, fighter for mages. It's already seen in Awakening that he wants to help mages and the injustice shown. And I can see how he changed from his usual self from the Anders we had in Awakening even though I miss the cheery mage I had there but it makes sense.
The companions personal quests were very well done and very enjoyable but sadly that doesn't satisfy me after I got spoiled with the huge amount of DA:O interaction you could get. I read that it was the same amount of dialogue as there was in DA:O but I didn't notice that at all or feel it. Maybe that's just me as well.
I love the banter much more in DA2 then in the previous games because it was more of it but it felt that my companions were closer to each others then I was to them at all.
Another note is the romances, as I have read previously, it felt very sweet and innocent in the beginning but when you jump to the next act suddenly its "bam!" after their personal quests. I romanced Anders and all of sudden it's like "I love you" with nothing really in between, which gave me a lack of interest of proceeding with it.
Maybe its different with the other romances, so i can't share my view on those except Anders.
I'm sorry if all of this has been mention before, this is my very first post and I feel nervous with actually sharing my views with others as I usually keep them to myself.
I just wanted to share my personal view.
DA:O was the first game I ever played from Bioware and the companion interaction to be had was completely new for me, as were the romances etc. I found it very refreshing, very exciting and lots of fun.
I fell in love with DA:O and think i did finish it in total 10 times and it was mostly because of the companions. I wanted new romances, new epilogues, new reactions to different choices you did not make in the previous one, and also because well, I loved the game itself for being awesome.
Anyway back to the point.
DA2 was a very enjoyable game in many ways and some ways not so much. The thing I looked forward to the most was the companion interaction and hoping it would not be like Awakening.
What I did love was the new approval/rivalry system. Also the way that it "locks" once you reach the maximum friendship/rivalry. In Origins I did sometimes feel I was on "tip toes" around certain members no matter how much approval you had just to not get disapproval for example when the gifts had run out and there was nothing more to talk about with that particular character. And I loved having it on maximum.
I also appreciate the fact there were less gifts, but the ones you could give gave way more impact then it did in Origins, (obviously not including for example, Sten's sword, Alistair's mothers amulet, Andraste's grace etc.) But the gifts that just got you approval felt like a very easy way just to get as highest you could on the approval meter without really doing anything. For example in my games I was the "goodie" person which basically meant that Morrigan always disapproved of my actions which made me a sad panda, but there were so many gifts for her so it was just easy to get it back up again by just handing her the shinies. Also the amount of gifts in Origins was sometimes overwhelming if I didn't have my guide next to me showing who to give stuff to.
Of course what I miss in DA2 was the lack of interaction you could have with your characters, and yes it makes sense to have them living in their own place but it was always annoying when you got new weapons/shields/daggers etc. that you had to take sometimes party members you didn't really want just to SEE if the weapons were an upgrade. Maybe I'm just lazy that way as well. I spent a lot of time in my camp just fixing my companions armor, enchanting weapons. Although I did love what Bioware did with the outfit, and that you could not change your party members "special look" I could never see for example Isabella starting running around in a leather armor that for example was in Origins.
Maybe that was a bit off topic ^^
What I would have wished for DA2 was just to have a few conversations in Act 1 specially to know your companions, as that Act is sooooo long. To have those few conversations about random things to know where they stand, what they like. I mean in Origins you can talk to Morrigan about her life in the Wilds, and to Leliana about shoes. All I knew in Act 1 was that Fenris hated mages guts and well since I could never have a conversation with him to see why in Act 1 or ask questions about it. It didn't really show until Act 2. I couldn't care less if the random conversations with people would give approval or rivalry points, because it might be irrelevant, but I would love just to ask more about it, not to wait maybe 10 hours to find out the "whys". Anders was a bit easier to understand with Justice merging with him that he became more...ehm, fighter for mages. It's already seen in Awakening that he wants to help mages and the injustice shown. And I can see how he changed from his usual self from the Anders we had in Awakening even though I miss the cheery mage I had there but it makes sense.
The companions personal quests were very well done and very enjoyable but sadly that doesn't satisfy me after I got spoiled with the huge amount of DA:O interaction you could get. I read that it was the same amount of dialogue as there was in DA:O but I didn't notice that at all or feel it. Maybe that's just me as well.
I love the banter much more in DA2 then in the previous games because it was more of it but it felt that my companions were closer to each others then I was to them at all.
Another note is the romances, as I have read previously, it felt very sweet and innocent in the beginning but when you jump to the next act suddenly its "bam!" after their personal quests. I romanced Anders and all of sudden it's like "I love you" with nothing really in between, which gave me a lack of interest of proceeding with it.
Maybe its different with the other romances, so i can't share my view on those except Anders.
I'm sorry if all of this has been mention before, this is my very first post and I feel nervous with actually sharing my views with others as I usually keep them to myself.
#233
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 12:55
EDarkness
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Going back to DA:O again, I have to say the companions were much better in my opinion. I really got to know them and know what they stood for. The whole experience just felt better. Plus being able to chat with them whenever you wanted, even if they repeated the same thing after a while, was cool. Better than going to their house and all they say is their place isn't clean.
The other thing I would like to see is better interaction with our LI. In DA:O, I romanced Morrigan, and I had this routine that when I entered camp, I'd always stop for a kiss or a romp in the sack. It just made sense as the two characters were "in love". The whole experience leading up to that point was cool, and I could relate to the situation. However, in DA2, one day Merrill shows up to my place and says she loves me, even though I had no idea how that was even possible since we barely even spoke. I flirted with her a couple of times, but there simply wasn't enough feedback to really see that it was going anywhere.
She eventually moved into my house and I could never really interact with her. Not even a kiss when I wanted to, or a mess around option. No generic conversation to really get to know each other. The whole thing felt wooden and a little fake. At least in the end with Morrigan, you could see she was torn with the whole situation, and having a romance with Leliana was nice and it really felt like she'd be with you forever.
Don't get me wrong, I kinda like where they're headed as far as interaction is concerned, but the whole thing was too spread out to really get to know the NPCs you were traveling with. It would have been nice to have some bonding moments or moments of just shooting the s**t as someone mentioned earlier. Visiting their place and just chilling would have been nice. Or even someone coming to your house just to invite you on a date, or to kill some bad guys or whatever. Doesn't have to be a whole lot of things and it can even be random, but something to throw you into their world so you can see that other side of them. It did feel strange that they knew each other better than I did.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
The other thing I would like to see is better interaction with our LI. In DA:O, I romanced Morrigan, and I had this routine that when I entered camp, I'd always stop for a kiss or a romp in the sack. It just made sense as the two characters were "in love". The whole experience leading up to that point was cool, and I could relate to the situation. However, in DA2, one day Merrill shows up to my place and says she loves me, even though I had no idea how that was even possible since we barely even spoke. I flirted with her a couple of times, but there simply wasn't enough feedback to really see that it was going anywhere.
She eventually moved into my house and I could never really interact with her. Not even a kiss when I wanted to, or a mess around option. No generic conversation to really get to know each other. The whole thing felt wooden and a little fake. At least in the end with Morrigan, you could see she was torn with the whole situation, and having a romance with Leliana was nice and it really felt like she'd be with you forever.
Don't get me wrong, I kinda like where they're headed as far as interaction is concerned, but the whole thing was too spread out to really get to know the NPCs you were traveling with. It would have been nice to have some bonding moments or moments of just shooting the s**t as someone mentioned earlier. Visiting their place and just chilling would have been nice. Or even someone coming to your house just to invite you on a date, or to kill some bad guys or whatever. Doesn't have to be a whole lot of things and it can even be random, but something to throw you into their world so you can see that other side of them. It did feel strange that they knew each other better than I did.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
#234
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 01:34
i love lamp x3
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in da:o, you learn about characters pasts, their plans for the future, their opinions, and even have opportunities to slightly alter their opinions.
in da2, you learn little-to-nothing about characters pasts, they live their own separate lives, it doesn't really make sense why they run around kirkwall killing mindless droves of thieves with hawke. maybe it's in exchange for the fact that the only things they have to say to you are asking favors. you can't really influence them, apart from the last couple minutes in the game where all of a sudden they can forego their strongly held opinions they've had for 10 years. also anders was ruined.. his timeline as well as his personality and appearance.
i still think da2 has great characters. it's just you'd think there'd be more of a change if you're friends or rivals or a romance aside from a small stat boost, and it'd be nice to get a full backstory. for example, you hear the party ask varric about his crossbow and he never tells anything. that's info friend hawke might be privy to one drunken night at the hang man. you have to sleep with isabela to hear about being sold into marriage. you hear the party lament or outright hate merrill for her interactions with demons, yet you never get to ask about it. also.. is it just me or does her story never really finish?
also the party banter in da:o was often hilarious. and in dialogue, the characters were really fleshed out and you can get everyone's backstory. the development of friendships among party members is cool to see/hear in da2 though.
there's just so much less comradery in da2
since there's so many people writing the exact same thing, hopefully bioware will take notice. it's probably a voiced pc that's gets in the way though.
in da2, you learn little-to-nothing about characters pasts, they live their own separate lives, it doesn't really make sense why they run around kirkwall killing mindless droves of thieves with hawke. maybe it's in exchange for the fact that the only things they have to say to you are asking favors. you can't really influence them, apart from the last couple minutes in the game where all of a sudden they can forego their strongly held opinions they've had for 10 years. also anders was ruined.. his timeline as well as his personality and appearance.
i still think da2 has great characters. it's just you'd think there'd be more of a change if you're friends or rivals or a romance aside from a small stat boost, and it'd be nice to get a full backstory. for example, you hear the party ask varric about his crossbow and he never tells anything. that's info friend hawke might be privy to one drunken night at the hang man. you have to sleep with isabela to hear about being sold into marriage. you hear the party lament or outright hate merrill for her interactions with demons, yet you never get to ask about it. also.. is it just me or does her story never really finish?
also the party banter in da:o was often hilarious. and in dialogue, the characters were really fleshed out and you can get everyone's backstory. the development of friendships among party members is cool to see/hear in da2 though.
there's just so much less comradery in da2
since there's so many people writing the exact same thing, hopefully bioware will take notice. it's probably a voiced pc that's gets in the way though.
Modifié par i love lamp x3, 26 mars 2011 - 01:45 .
#235
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 06:12
Statisfaction
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You just need balance
Have a place we can talk and cram a million conversations into 5 minutes
but let some of those conversations come up naturally if you're in the right place
Have a place we can talk and cram a million conversations into 5 minutes
but let some of those conversations come up naturally if you're in the right place
#236
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 06:20
wiskeylab
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well i've completed da2, for now i'm gonna say this. the ending really pissed me off. i hate games that keep me waiting lol
#237
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 06:25
Doveberry
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Overall, I think that DA2's companions were more interesting and better written than those in Origins. There was, however, a definite lack of content compared to Origins. That made me sad, since the companions are so important to the story and feel of the game.
#238
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 07:38
txgoldrush
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I do not get why people like the two dimensional Bioware clone characters of Origins more than the three dimensional, more original characters of DAII.
Instead of being glorified codex entries, DAII's characters make a much bigger impact in the story. DAII's characters depth is used, not so much in DAO.
I think DAO is one of the worst Bioware casts, there are less 3d characters than their past games (with the most complex character being Leliana) and I could easily play spot the Jade Empire/KOTOR/Baldur's Gate character.
Instead of being glorified codex entries, DAII's characters make a much bigger impact in the story. DAII's characters depth is used, not so much in DAO.
I think DAO is one of the worst Bioware casts, there are less 3d characters than their past games (with the most complex character being Leliana) and I could easily play spot the Jade Empire/KOTOR/Baldur's Gate character.
#239
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 08:04
wyandell26
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Stephanid98 wrote...
sonieb33 wrote...
......I have one more complaint to add to the above however (I haven't yet seen anyone mention it so far, sorry if I missed it): What the heck happened to the HUMOR?? Like I said before, I've been playing this for about 11 hours now and I have laughed maybe once. With DA:O I would quite often bust out laughing or I'd hear someone in the other room laugh at something a character would say. What happened?? It was one of our favorite parts of the game! I spent literally HOURS going out of my way to milk every last comment and conversation out of every character just to hear what they'd say next!
After playing DA2 I've gone back and am playing DAO...again. And YES, as I play I realize how much I loved this!! I"ve laughed so much over what gets said and geez, I've played this game already a number of times and here I am still laughing!
in DA2 I was questing, in Origins...I was building relationships.
I've come to realize that's the type of game I like - building relationships, something more than just a 'questing game'. Something that will immerse me in the story, the characters, the era. When I look back on the games I truly love they all seem to have that element of immersing me in all those facets. Mass Effect, Dragon Age origins, KOTOR, a certain Final Fantasy.
That's what I love - and I hadn't expected it in DAO when I bought it but there it was...and I guess I got greedy because it fed my desire & hope that more games would follow that path and realize it was the immersion in the story that made it great.
I suppose I just expected DA2 to be like that and it wasn't. It was the typical game. And yes, it's good, but it doesn't have that all encompassing element I was hoping for - it's just a good game, with a great ending.
Absolutely worth playing!! Just not what I was hoping for............
this times eleventy billion
