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[Jaws_Victim]

The "Bioware Magic" is missing in this game, and that's how much your choices affect the game. In this game, no matter what you do, the ending is the same and you kill the same people. You don't get to know your characters very well over the course of the game. I also felt that the whole "10 years passing" didn't feel like time passed that much. Lots of missed opportunities.

[David Gaider]

You know, what's interesting about this is that there's actually almost as much dialogue per follower in DA2 as there was in DAO (barring perhaps Alistair and Morrigan specifically, considering their larger roles in the story). The primary difference is that in DA2 it's spread out. We took a lot of that dialogue you had before at the camp and deliberately put more of it into their personal quests and the intermittent dialogues you have at the follower's base-- that's where you get to ask them their questions, as they come up in context.

My impression is that some people miss being able to get all the dialogue at once. I think there's an urge to get an immediate response for interaction-- click-reward-click-reward, etc. --until they feel they've gotten to know the character and then move onto the rest of the game, even if there's not a lot of dialogue after that point outside of triggered moments.

Maybe that's better, I don't know. It's simply an interesting perception, but whether it's caused by some people simply missing dialogue or because the first act is so long and there's only one major dialogue for a follower there after you recruit them... or something else, I can't really say. I imagine it varies, and the fact that someone feels less connected certainly speaks for itself, but it's not from lack of dialogue. Not everyone feels the same way, of course, but we'll definitely look at the various reactions and tweak it some more. There are indeed some things we tried in DA2 that I don't think we'll try again, but I'm still willing to give it some time to mull over.

[Auora]

FeriIuce wrote...

So, I've finished the game today after about 27-28 hours of play and I can now definitively say that DA:O was better than DA2. That is not to say that DA2 is not a great game. It most certainly is, but it has completely butchered the main element of what made DA:O such a compelling experience: The companions and their characterization.

In origins I spent a huge amount of time in camp simply talking to my companions, and over the course of my ~30 hours of play I actually felt like I'd got to know and care about those characters. I was literally heartbroken when morrigan left me in the end to run off to wherever she went, and the moment in the camp where leliana starts singing her beautiful song is the most vivid gaming memory I have. I very nearly burst out in tears when I heard it the first time.

Skip forward to DA2 (and awakening). This element has now completely disappeared. I can now only talk to my companions when I get a quest that specifically tells me to go talk to them, and they mostly feel like strangers just tagging along. They could be replaced with random mercenaries and you wouldn't really notice it that much.
When your mother die you dont really react emotionally at all either. You pretty much go "Well, that sucks I guess" and move on.
The L.I. Substories are even worse as far as I can tell. I chose Merril as my L.I, and all taht consisted of was basically me telling her she was sweet and pretty a few times, then suddenly she showed up in my house, jumped on me and then moved in. She then got a new armor and that was the last I heard of that untill the very end before the fight with meredith. Even aveline's romance with the guard guy was fleshed out more than that.

Overall I'm just very disappointed with their decision to butcher the main element of DA:O in such a way. The combat is a lot better than DA:O, and the story is also quite interesting, but while I did enjoy the game, I just sat back at the end and felt like something was missing.

Well, with that rant out of the way. Here's hoping that bioware learns from their mistakes and that DA3 will have both great combat and great character interaction.

This. 100% agree.

For the whole of Act 1, I kept going to my companions homes after each quest to see if they had anything new to to say and was dissapoitned each time! My romance went from "Thanks for being a friend" to "Omg I can't live without you". I mean, where was the development?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the banter. But I didn't really care if my characters died, got possessed, or I just flatout betrayed them. Something is terribly wrong about that.

[Dordro]

This is exactly how I felt about the companion system in DA2. However, I did feel awful when his mother died. But with the companions it felt like they just mainstreamed everything and you couldn't build a relationship with the people traveling with you. In DA:O you could talk to your companions and learn about them and make decisions that could make them love you or like you or hate you but in DA2 you are just shown what to say if you want to go into a romance or to hurt the companion.

I also feel there was a major lackluster of polish when it came to companion conversations and their reactions to certain events. I romanced Merrill and at the end of her quest line I killed her entire clan and she didn't even react to it besides one conversation that I think she had with Anders or Aveline. The fact that there wasn't even any conversation that I could have with her just floored me. She even just said the exact same things she had been saying the whole game to me when I clicked on her.

Overall, I still love this game because bioware can make you love your characters and feel epic in the story but there are some major polishing issues involving companion conversations and companions reacting to certain events.

[reddragon567]

Baldurs Gate 2, you never could just randomly talk to Minsc or anybody else. They always started the conversation. This was brilliant, and really they need to bring this back. I hate startingt he conversation myself because my companions are always like "Why are we stopping to talk you blabbermouth". And really, they are right about that.

BG2 had the best characterization to date. The conversations were always rich and colorful. And best of all, the companions with the personalities STARTED the conversations. Rather than me sitting in a comp going from companion to companion trying to get all the dialog out of these shmucks.

[reddragon567]

 Baldurs Gate 2, you never could just randomly talk to Minsc or anybody else. They always started the conversation. This was brilliant, and really they need to bring this back. I hate startingt he conversation myself because my companions are always like "Why are we stopping to talk you blabbermouth". And really, they are right about that. 
BG2 had the best characterization to date. The conversations were always rich and colorful. And best of all, the companions with the personalities STARTED the conversations. Rather than me sitting in a comp going from companion to companion trying to get all the dialog out of these shmucks. 

[Wizard of thay]

actually disagree. think the characters are in some ways as good as DAO
I think the important different is how the stories are told.
DAO the characters stories were revealed in the camp.
DA2 the stories are a bit more subtle and spread out.

examples.
Aveline, when she rescues the guard, cue a small reaction from her when she speaks to him.
Varric, The rumours section of the quest journal.
Bethany: the interactions with the family.
cut scene reactions to quests.

that combined with the knowledge that your decisions can have consequences.

in fact the only NPC I haven't liked is Fenris...stupid goth wannbe elf

[IdRatherBeSleeping]

I completely agree, I so much miss talking to my party. My L.I. was Alistair and when I found out that I had to choose between letting him sleep with Morrigan or have he or I die I was heart broken.

[DebatableBubble]

In my opinion, it's better for the companion convos to be spaced out rather than being able to talk about anything and everything in one go and not having anything to talk about later.

[Iecerint]

I was very pleased with the M/M Anders romance. Much better than the M/M Zevran romance, namely.

I got to like Fenris/Merrill/Anders a lot. Though it helped to imagine Gwen Cooper as a blood mage elf to get into Merrill.

[Panimi]

I was just discussing this with friends. I agree with your comments that the companions didn't really feel like companions but rather people who would occasionally fight alongside you. I was very annoyed that the game's loading screen would say "Go to your companions' base often to chat!' and, really, you only ever talk to them there like...maybe twice per act? There was little romance when engaging these companions, which is half the fun of the game.

I hope that in DA3 they get as close to DAO as possible when it comes to companions. As you said, DA2 is a good game and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but this issue really makes it underwhelming compared to DA2.

[Panimi]

 I was just discussing this with friends. I agree with your comments that the companions didn't really feel like companions but rather people who would occasionally fight alongside you. I was very annoyed that the game's loading screen would say "Go to your companions' base often to chat!' and, really, you only ever talk to them there like...maybe twice per act? There was little romance when engaging these companions, which is half the fun of the game.
I hope that in DA3 they get as close to DAO as possible when it comes to companions. As you said, DA2 is a good game and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but this issue really makes it underwhelming compared to DA2.

[Taiyama]

I'd have to mostly agree, myself. This was my number one deal-breaking flaw with Dragon Age 2. I just couldn't get as attached to the characters as I did in DA:O. They all seemed like complete strangers to me even after, in the story at least, my Hawke had known them for four years. Where are the conversations about silly little things like licking lampposts in winter? I guess you had that once with Merrill in the "Nice crime you have here" thing, but that was SO SHORT.

[gangly369]

I was fine with it. In some cases, yes I did miss the ability to go up to my companions and be able to talk to them whenever, but I felt that DA2 companions were very well thought out. I absolutely loved Merrill, and I have never wanted to beat someone more over the head then I did with Anders after he decided to blow everything to kingdom come. Not only that, but the interaction between the companions in DA2 (i feel) were so much more gratifying to watch then anything that happened in origins.
Overall, I really don't feel Bioware 'butchered' anything at all. It worked well, and I was able to get to know my companions and feel for them just as deeply as I did with Zevran or Morrigan.

Also as a final note, Zevran was AWESOME!!! I dont care that he changed as much as he did facial wise, it made sense with the new character design

[HooblaDGN]

Hrmph. I loved the characters in DA2 much more and for numerous reasons as compared to DA:O. Diff strokes, I suppose?

[Oxy Clean]

I totally agree, while I was trying to romance Isabela (Don't even ask me why) I kept thinking I had to talk to her, only to find out that I couldn't, I then tried to talk to my other companions, I couldn't, I was like "No, they completely took out the conversation element that was so profound in DA:O" They butchered it, I agree, but the rest of the game surpassed my expectations.

[FoxholeHunter]

DA2 is a great game and I am enjoying it so far muchly, but I have to agree on this point. There is nobody in my party yet that I care or am as interested in as Morrigan, Lilieana and even Alistait the *** in DA2. Thats why MA2 stands out so much to me as that had the best rounded characters in Bioware game to date IMO.

However one thing that DA2 does have over the original in terms of character is MY character. Hawke is damn more interesting and worth caring about than my silent Warden from Origins, I just guess that came at the expense of your companions this time round.

[dreamextractor]

Modifié par dreamextractor, 13 mars 2011 - 03:12 .

[choochoo37]

I do miss being able to talk to my teammates at my own whim, but I felt most of the dialogues in DAO were just exposition and it grew tiresome after a while. I think the dialogues are better in DA2, but the actual process of interaction could have been better.

[dreamextractor]

I like these guys, but I agree. Companions in DA II are a bit lacking compared to the companions in DA:O. I've grown to like them all, but I feel like I only really got to know Aveline, Carver, and Fenris. Preventing relationships from being rushed is good and all, but the way they went about it was handled a bit poorly and it hurt their character development, IMO. I think I had more opportunities to talk to my Awakening companions, and I definitely got to know them better there. I don't know, maybe I'll feel differently when I bring a different team with me next time.

I also wish that there were more character-defining moments in DA II like the fade nightmares and the guardian's questions - the latter which led me to appreciating Oghren a lot more. The personal quests worked, but I don't know, I just kind of wanted more.

Modifié par dreamextractor, 13 mars 2011 - 03:15 .

[jadefishes]

I also am terribly disappointed in the way DA2 took what I liked least about Awakening and ran with it. While I find party banter quite enjoyable, it is the interactions I could initiate with companions that really sold me on Origins. I could talk to anyone anywhere and at least have something to talk about. And when it comes to love interests? I was so bummed by how perfunctory the romancing was. Origins engaged me in the process of my warden's getting to know his/her love interest, and when the game was over, I was invested in the outcome for my warden.

Not so with DA2, and when people ask me my opinion of the game, I have had to say that it's a disappointment as part of the franchise. If it stood alone, I'd say it was a good game and I'd enjoy it, but with the game trying to follow in the footsteps of DAO, I wanted it to surpass its origins, not fall so far short.

[righteouspower1]

I agree that i didn't really feel a connection with any of the companions in DA2. The other thing that i didn't really like was that i didn't seem to have a set goal or objective or villan to defeat. I was learning what my goal was AS i was going through the game!

Getting back to the companions, that relationship that you built with your team in DA:O was what made it impossible for me not to spend the money on the DLC and on DA:O Awakenings. With that said, i don't feel the urge to get whatever DLC comes out so that i can continue the storyline in DA2.

It may not sound like it but i did thoroughly enjoy DA2 but i never felt completely drawn in to the story of the game.

[Chuvvy]

Yeah companions weren't as fleshed out as they were in DAO. Still more than they were in ME2 though.

[Doomflame11]

just beat the game thought i did everything then find out the games over... I didnt even have Isabella or Fenris as party members WTF....I'm super disappointed the game was only worthy as an expansion. They put this much time into it and they make an under 30 hour RPG? The game wasn't tottally bad it built on combat and such but wow.....

[Doomflame11]

just beat the game thought i did everything then find out the games over... I didnt even have Isabella or Fenris as party members WTF....I'm super disappointed the game was only worthy as an expansion. They put this much time into it and they make an under 30 hour RPG? The game wasn't tottally bad it built on combat and such but wow.....