506 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

google_calasade wrote...

You would think the disappointing sales of DA 2 would be enough to tell them of their error, but that has seemed to have little to no impact.  It seems Bioware/EA is hellbent on having the Dragon Age series a certain way despite sales or the feedback they get from social networks and gameplay.

It depends how they interpret the sales drop. Was it a matter of direction or implentation? I actually LIKE the CONCEPT of DA2, but my qualms were about it's implentation. Some say the problem is that the game doesn't let you roam an entire country. Other say a single city is fine, but all the houses/caves/shorelines shouldn't be identical. Some say that all bi LIs are bad. Other say that all bi is fine, but at least one of the LIs should be sane. Some think Elves should look like skinny humans with pointy ears. Others think that alien looking Elves are fine, but the background Elves and minor characters shouldn't look like they've been slapped together on a PSOne.

If Bioware assumes that it was lousy implementation of their new direction that is the problem, then we can look at the DLCs to see how they intend to fix things. In my opinion they are very good and fix most of the problems I had with the game, but it doesn't excuse the fact that the DLCs appear more carefully crafted than the game I paid $60 for.

[Rawgrim]

DA2 isn`t THAT bad. Its abit bellow mediocre, but it did have some very cool ideas in it somewhere. The characters were good too, but they lacked abit of depth. This is most likely because we couldn`t talk to them as much as we could in DA:O and Kotor, I guess.

[Deadmac]

yesikareyes wrote...
Is Dragon Age 2 that bad?

Its a subjective question. Even though I think "Dragon Age II" is a horrible game, my personal perception does not invalidate another person's. We are all unique individuals, and that is what makes life interesting. Only you can answer the quesiton before us.

FierachEredasSoulchiou wrote...
Its impossible to please everybody. What some people look kindly on and approve of, somebody else'll rag, and tear it apart.

Agreed.

Modifié par Deadmac, 16 décembre 2011 - 03:26 .

[Abispa]

Once you cut out the MASSIVE amount of fire-side chat time where each character has a chance to school you in the lore of Thedas, the amount of conversation with each character about the same in DA2 as it was in DA:O and KotOR. After a few gifts and LONG sessions chatting, you could always start a conversation in DA:O at any time, but then it would be, "Yes, Warden, did you want something?" "No, let's move on." What I miss is the camp setting where you could talk to anyone without having to reload three new people to talk to.

[Abispa]

Deadmac wrote...

yesikareyes wrote...
Is Dragon Age 2 that bad?

Its a subjective question. Even though I think "Dragon Age II" is a horrible game, my personal perception does not invalidate another person's. We are all unique individuals, and that is what makes life interesting. Only you can answer the quesiton before us.

FierachEredasSoulchiou wrote...
Its impossible to please everybody. What some people look kindly on and approve of, somebody else'll rag, and tear it apart.

Agreed.

Agreed. I don't understand the rage in this forum between players who did like the game and those who didn't. Who is the critic to say that the fan didn't enjoy it, and vice versa?

I have mixed feelings about this. I thought DA:O was a better game overall, but the pacing of the game has kept me from playing it all the way through (DLCs and Expansion included) more than twice. Meanwhile, the flawed DA2 has some REALLY bad moments, but they are over so quickly and something I do enjoy comes up often and quickly enough that I have completed all three classes with both genders.

[SkittlesKat96]

I enjoyed it too and I'm not going to let other people tell me I'm wrong for enjoying it...and I still agree its not as good as DA:O and it could have/should have been a fair bit better.

Fortunately though OP the majority of the people from months ago who would berate you and insult you for liking DA 2 are gone now.

No longer do you get the usual 'LOL, are you trolling bro' or 'yeah well good for you OP, go and have a sexual relationship with the devs, you and them are the only ones in the world that love DA 2'

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 16 décembre 2011 - 07:46 .

[puppy maclove]

Aaleel wrote...

To some people it is, to some it isn't.

I personally could not even make it through the game twice because it failed me on the most basic level, it wasn't fun or engaging. It was to stale, static and stagnant. The game supposedly took place over ten years (7 you actually play through) but nothing changed. Not the city, not the Dalish camp, not the handful of quest areas. Never saw rain, snow, dusk or dawn it was always high noon or midnight in the city.

Given the fact that they only had to worry about one city and made the premise of the game that it took place over such a long period of time, I found this failure to change the surroundings outrageous and ridiculous.

So if the game is going to be this stagnant and static, and you take away all sense of discovery and exploration the story has to be outstanding to make up for it, and it just wasn't, not even close.

So for me, yes it was that bad. For others maybe not,

Yep...... I share your thoughts exactly here. The game just felt so static and unpolished... etc

[DreamwareStudio]

Not to get off topic (we were talking about dungeon crawling the Deep Roads in DA:O earlier), but OMFG...Ortan Thaig...the golems and spirit warriors...tried running away from the first batch to the other side of the bridge. BIG MISTAKE. Got my arse handed to me! Only my Warden left standing with barely any life yet, down to but one injury kit and pitiful few health poultices. I dumped all my ingredients at camp to make room for loot.

And I'm pushing on without returning...see how far I can get.

DA:O is incredible!

[DreamwareStudio]

*** deleted - double post ***

Modifié par google_calasade, 16 décembre 2011 - 09:32 .

[Mr Fixit]

furryrage59 wrote...

Mr Fixit wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I think DA2 is fantastic, frankly. I love the story, characters, art style and gameplay.

I love the story and characters of Origins as well, but frankly it's an ugly game. It was an early effort with new technology and it shows. And it's a real drudge to actually play, with long boring stretches. It took me five tries to even finish it. So many times I got up to the Landsmeet and then just gave up.

I've played DA2 at least half a dozen times, and that was before buying the DLC. I'm on my second complete playthrough of Origins, making a new canon save. I just finished it and moved onto Awakening and I want to stab myself in the face.

Origins I don't think is ugly.  It is simply a little plain.  I don't find it is a drudge, either.  I quite enjoy the background politics (especially Orzammar where you get to decide who will be their next King).  All of that is made more enjoyable by actually reading the material provided by the game.  DA:O requires some thought because it is not hack and slash nor is it geared toward the action end of RPG.  Some of the battles can be fairly strategic, especially when you take traps into consideration.  What's more, your actions are something to consider because what you do does affect the game.

In DA:O thus far I haven't found one boring stretch.  Each major quest location is unique, has its own quirks and various enemies that fit the environment and each offers new challenges.  The stories behind them are good as well.  The little quests are often humorous, hard (Marjolainne, facing off against Flemeth) or a little shocking (seducing the elf girl in the Dalish camp was unexpected).

Seriously, besides the plain look, what's not to like?  TONS of thought went into DA:O.

I find the deep roads, the Fade, and Ostagar very dull to play through. Luckily, I'm able to minimize my time there because I'm fairly familiar with it. I find the combat slow and clumsy, the class distinction is lackluster, and skill progression is extremely limited.

I've noticed that many didn't like Fade and the Deep Roads, which is curious to me. I find the Fade pretty cool and interesting, quite different from standard fare one is accustomed to in such games. Deep Roads are a nice example of good old fashioned dungeon crawling, though I'll admit it is unnecessarily long.

The fade is quite unique and i enjoy messing around with the shape shifting and i love the deep roads, dungeon crawls are a lot of fun and i love the feeling of slowly running low on supplies, injuries piling up and hobbling onwards (unless uber prepared). My first time making it to the end of the deep roads my group was hilariously wounded and low on gear. finishing off the last fight in the area with one guy left standing felt awesome.

Very puzzling tbh.

I play that way too. I dislike using injury kits (or returning to base/camp when not realistically possible and/or convenient) and just press on injured. I also rarely use poultices and potions unless absolutely necessary. The feeling of being challenged and pushed to the limits is what makes these long combat stretches interesting to me.

[Bayz]

^ this, unfortunately having a mage in party often make things too easy as they can heal your group and paralize/render useless the horde's attacks on your group.

[Realmzmaster]

DA2 is a good game, not great, not terrible. DA2 has faults which have been stated on this fourm (recycled environments, warriors jumping down in full plate, junk items etc). For some gamers the faults are game breakers, for others it is not.

DAO was in some aspects a better game. Even DAO had its faults. If you had two mages in your party combat was easy. If you had a ranger party plus tank combat was easy. With the Ranger party on the PC you could have a 7 member party. Each ranger called a pet plus the four party members. Even on the consoles you could have a 5 member party like in DA2.

Gamers who like one game or the other tend to overlook the faults. I like both games and can give a laundry list of points that I believe both games missed. Just for disclourse I like permadeath, non-regeneration of health, mana/stamina, weight restrictions, food and water requirements and weapons and armor that break among other things which are lacking in both games.

Everyone is not going to want what I want in an cRPG. Compromise has to be made. DAO and DA2 are (IMHO) not as realistic in some regards as Baldur's Gate which is not realistic when compared to a game like Alternate Reality or Might & Magic (two of my favorites since it includes most of what I like).

[Riknas]

Short answer: No, it's not. You can even enjoy yourself, I for one find the combat to be more compelling and less tedious than the previous game, and that the character relationships are much better.

Of course, it's not perfect.

I defer to Realmzmaster's anaylsis.

[yesikareyes]

Oh well, I have come to terms with the end of Dragon Age Origins by entertaining myself with Fan Fictions. God, I hope I can find ones that are really good minus the unnecessary and explicit sexual encounters.

[Tommyspa]

I don't think there is a game that exist that is as bad as the internet would have you believe DA2 is.

[csfteeeer]

Depends on what you mean by "That Bad".

if you mean "That Bad" by saying "It's a giant piece of Ass", then yes.

if you mean "WORST GAME EVER", then No.

if You Mean "COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE GARBAGE", well that depends if you like the combat or not, but even, it's still works and it's playable.
But then, you could also say that About Duke Nukem Forever.

[bEVEsthda]

yesikareyes wrote...

I've read most of the reviews here in the forum and I know that there were some things left undeveloped by Bioware but I actually enjoyed the game. I was attached to my companions such as Bethany, Aveline and Sebastian. I really liked the story and most of the improvements made to the game.

I never played origins because I found it hard to play it in the console version but in DA 2 the combat was faster and it was simplified. It did not feel like a total loss to me that you could only be human but if there was a sequel I wouldn't have anything against having other races but hopefully Bioware makes them have equal opputunities to weave their own story but with extremely unique playthroughs for players (and not just some differences in dialogue).

I do hope that they make a sequel to DA 2 despite the negative feedback. Maybe they could keep the premise of DA 2 but improve on the technical stuff fans are crtical on. 

Ignoring what else have been written in this thread, I'd like to answer like this: No, it's not that bad. But DA2 is not the game that many of us expected or wanted. The problem is that as a "new direction" it destroys the DA franchise. And that franchise was much loved in DA:O. And those same people also tend to despise games like DA2. Normally, they can just opt out not buying those. In this case however, a RPG franchise many of them had waited an entire decade for, was suddenly inhilated and turned into one of these games that they happen to despise.
- And as that kind of game we despise, it is certainly "that bad".

That is IMO the main cause of the criticism. As for "technical stuff" it's all too easy to stare yourself blind on them. I do not think that they individually amount to much. It's the whole picture, and the direction, the game Bioware suddenly wanted DA to be, that is the problem.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 17 décembre 2011 - 11:12 .

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Not bad, just really, really disappointing.

[Realmzmaster]

There lies the crux of the problem.There are people who like and love DA2 and did not like DAO. There are many gamers who love DAO and do not like or hate DA2. If Bioware goes back to a game like DAO it will lose people who liked the new direction some of which were attracted to DA by DA2.If Bioware keeps the current direction of DA2 then you lose the sales from fans who liked the DAO style.

So you cannot please everyone, but neither can Bioware ignore attracting a new audience. You need something to attract new players. A rehash of the old will keep your present fanbase happy,but that does not expand it. I not talking about the COD crowd either. I talking a bout people who may have wanted to try a cRPG but ate completely put off by some of the complexity.

As i have stated on the forum before. The kind of complexity I like would not be embraced by many people on this forum. Many of you would reject some of the conventions I like.

Well a newer audience would possibly reject some of the conventions in DAO that the existing fan base like.

I changed my perspective and enjoyed DAO and DA2 for what they were. The two games are not what I wanted. (None of the new cRPGs are what I want.) Others may not be able to do that. I have only on basic criteria. Am I having fun? If I can answer that question with a yes that all the reviews or other people's opinion do not matter until the developers listen to the collective opinion and change what I liked in DAO and DA2, then I have to decide either change my perspective or go find developers (usually indies like Basilisk games makers of Eschalon I & II) that share my old school view. Unfortunately the indies do not always make party based games which is why I play Bioware games. TES and TW2 are not party based so that group interaction is missing.

I will probably pre-order DA3 (if there is one) because I like party based games and there are very few (almost none) of those games.

[Fast Jimmy]

Who says Bioware needed to expand the audience?

Old school fans of Bioware came back in droves for DAO. And tons of new fans joined the ranks. DAO was a blend of all kinds of technical aspects that appealed back to the glory days of cRPGs, with lots of lore, dialogue and customization possible. Its engaging story also brought lots of people in who have never even played video games before. I used to see tons of people on who said their kid/spouse/friend/significant other raved about DAO and got them to play it and got them hooked. They didn't need to take a college level statistics class to enjoy the game.

DAO received more critical aclaims than any other RPG in years, possibly since Final Fantasy X. It received more love of any Western RPG probably since the Baldur's Gate or Planescape days. DAO also sold INSANELY well, being one of the top sellers for 2009.

What, about ANY of that, indicated that RPGs were a bad genre or that the way DAO was set up, in a basic sense, was wrong? And even if it was flawed, and doing it all over again wouldn't have gotten a single more purchase... so what? It sold as well as franchises like Madden or Call of Duty, on its virgin cruise! What's wrong with duplicating that success?

I know Bioware said they were tired of the "same old save the world" concept, but their response was a meandering plot that failed to define Hawke as a character and to give any sort of feeling of purpose. If, as a player, I can't tell you that the Mage/Templar conflict is the primary theme until Act 3 (the final act) starts, then that is poor story telling.

I sense I have gone on a rant here, which was not my intention. But suffice to say - change was not needed. Not radical, foundation-shifting change, at least.The game was a success in every respect possible (although far from perfect in every respect possible). To say they wanted to go in a completely different direction that pulled the rug out from underneath all the fans and good will they had created up to that point just because they were tired of being the fantasy RPG franchise they started is insulting.

To me, Brent Knowles leaving was either the reason behind the drop in quality in the series or a sign to all of us that things were not going to be pretty. Maybe both. If they told me tomorrow Brent was coming back, then I'd pre-order DA3 right now.

[Bayz]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Who says Bioware needed to expand the audience?

EA

You don't need me to tell you anyway.

Modifié par Bayz, 18 décembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[Realmzmaster]

Bayz wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Who says Bioware needed to expand the audience?

EA

Not just EA. Economics alone dictates that as your audience ages and starts to die off you need to replace and attract new people. Failure to do so leaves you with even less of an audience for your games. Now if you afford to be a niche [layer in a niche area of gaming that is fine. But making AAA games requires resources. If only a certain segment likes your games and you cannot grow that segment what is a copy suppose to do?

Some compamies like Valve and Blizzard have a steady income coming in every month. Other compamies constantly have to have different projects launching to the public to keep the cash flow flowing. If one project takes considerable resources then other projects will suffer. There is a balance that has to be maintained with money coming in and going out.

A lot of new players are not going to like the old school sometimes over complexed games. The world has changed since then. When it started one man could program a cRPG and be successful. Not any more. It takes a team with many resources to please the old and attract the new.

[Bayz]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Not just EA. Economics alone dictates that as your audience ages and starts to die off you need to replace and attract new people. Failure to do so leaves you with even less of an audience for your games. Now if you afford to be a niche [layer in a niche area of gaming that is fine. But making AAA games requires resources. If only a certain segment likes your games and you cannot grow that segment what is a copy suppose to do?

Some compamies like Valve and Blizzard have a steady income coming in every month. Other compamies constantly have to have different projects launching to the public to keep the cash flow flowing. If one project takes considerable resources then other projects will suffer. There is a balance that has to be maintained with money coming in and going out.

A lot of new players are not going to like the old school sometimes over complexed games. The world has changed since then. When it started one man could program a cRPG and be successful. Not any more. It takes a team with many resources to please the old and attract the new.

In the long run yet it is more a matter of audience ageing and dropping their games than dying, as Bioware is not really that old as a company...I am not that old...shut up I am not.

Blizzard has actually expanded its fanbase. Definitely from The Lost Vikings to World of Warcraft they had boosted their fanbase in numbers quite a lot, I used to be Blizzard fanboy since Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, then WoW happened. Despite me taking Diablo 3 it is unlikely I will get anymore products from them, and I know many others who also changed, not as much due to they making them casual as, well, I now have less time to actually play so it comes handy, as due to the huge ammount of retcons.

Your hear us talk about Warcraft and we sound just like vietnam veterans...ahh funny times.

In Valve's case, you mean Steam? Or do they have anything else I am not aware of?

[Fast Jimmy]

While I agree that change is necessary to keep pace and to replace lost customers, etc.,etc. I don't buy that argument.

How many DAO players died between Fall 2009 and March 2011? How many stopped playing video games? How many had their changes and tastes so drastically changed in less than 18 months, that a vast revision of the franchise would be warranted?

Between Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 was over a decade. They couldn't do the old style, it would have been laughable. So they made it TES with guns and it was pretty decent. The worst out of the Fallout games, but that's still like being the dirtiest piece of gold - I'd rather take that over the shiniest piece of silver.

Bioware made a decision to change their games for purely financial reasons. I don't disparage them that. But I DO expect them to realize that making good games makes more financial sense than changing formats to appeal to more people.

The Dragon Age franchise was supposed to destroy the concept of the RPG as only an action/adventure game, not join them. Bring balance to the gaming industry, not lead it into darkness!