506 réponses à ce sujet

[bEVEsthda]

To me, the game, any game like DA:O is less demanding in what it tasks the player with, than TES games. Rewards also tend to be more immediate and progress is more clearly experienced by the player. So by the logic of how Bioware needed to "expand their market", and how they perceived that should be done, Bethesda should have needed it even more, after Morrowind.

But look at what Bethesda did instead, and learn how you truly expand an audience.

When I was playing BG, I met this guy who was raving about a game called TES II - Daggerfall. So when TES III - Morrowind came out, I bought it. Then I raved about TES to whoever gamer I met. Most of them actually didn't bite on Morrowind. But they did bite on TES IV - Oblivion. Then I saw and heard them rave to everybody about Oblivion, which I thought a bit funny, since I kinda regarded Oblivion as a slight disappointment. But both Bethesda and word-of-mouth took Oblivion in their stride. And when TES V - Skyrim hit, it seemed everybody was getting the game and raving about it. Which puts the question: How big will TES VI become? Bigger than CoD?

My point? People, including me, were raving about DA:O too. Who knows how big DA might have become?

I think this applies to ME too. IMO, ME2 is a lesser game than ME, but it still manages better sales, because there is the greater mindshare from ME. That is what the sales reflect! Not a confirmation that changes to gameplay were positive. But ME2 doesn't change the character of the game, atmosphere or art direction. It remains true to ME. 

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 18 décembre 2011 - 10:36 .

[Fast Jimmy]

ME2 did better than ME1. TES 3 did better than 2, oblivion better than Morrowind and Skyrim broke the glass ceiling for RPG sales.

DA2 slumped. Horribly so.

There's usually only one outcome for game franchises that do significantly poorerthan their predescor. It's being scraped.

[Aaleel]

Dragon Age 2 is what 9 months old while Origins just turned what, 2 years old?  They had already made up their mind what they were doing before they even saw how Origins was going to do.

I think they got towards the end of Origins development and said in this day and age we can't spend this much time and resources on a game.  We need to streamline and strip this down.  They probably didn't think Origins would sell as well as it did, and when it did it was too late.

But either way it wasn't complaints about Origins or any of this other nonsense.  They had made up their minds before Origins even came out.

Just look at the time in the development when Knowles left.  He knew the new plan way back then.

Modifié par Aaleel, 18 décembre 2011 - 02:21 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Yep. Brent said on his blog when he left that he didn't like the direction the franchise or the whole company was taking and said he decided to part ways.

This from the guy who worked on every bioware game that people on the forums mention when they say previous Bioware successes. When that guy leaves and says he doesn't like where things are going, it should have been a big 'Oh ****' moment for us.


For the record, that last statement was 'Oh name-of-a-German-socialist-party-during-the-late-30's-early-40's' not another word for human excrement. It still cracks me up that this is editted out like a curse word.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 18 décembre 2011 - 02:36 .

[Atakuma]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Yep. Brent said on his blog when he left that he didn't like the direction the franchise or the whole company was taking and said he decided to part ways.

This from the guy who worked on every bioware game that people on the forums mention when they say previous Bioware successes. When that guy leaves and says he doesn't like where things are going, it should have been a big 'Oh ****' moment for us.

So what? Other people that worked on those games just as much as he did are still at bioware. What makes Brent Knowles so special that his decision to leave is some kind of warning sign?

[Realmzmaster]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

While I agree that change is necessary to keep pace and to replace lost customers, etc.,etc. I don't buy that argument.

How many DAO players died between Fall 2009 and March 2011? How many stopped playing video games? How many had their changes and tastes so drastically changed in less than 18 months, that a vast revision of the franchise would be warranted?

Between Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 was over a decade. They couldn't do the old style, it would have been laughable. So they made it TES with guns and it was pretty decent. The worst out of the Fallout games, but that's still like being the dirtiest piece of gold - I'd rather take that over the shiniest piece of silver.

Bioware made a decision to change their games for purely financial reasons. I don't disparage them that. But I DO expect them to realize that making good games makes more financial sense than changing formats to appeal to more people.

The Dragon Age franchise was supposed to destroy the concept of the RPG as only an action/adventure game, not join them. Bring balance to the gaming industry, not lead it into darkness!

How many have died between 2009 and 2011. I do not know but I can assume that some are no longer with us. Idealism is always nice until it hits reality. The reality is that games now need to cover their costs and make a decent profit. It took Bethesda 5 years to make Skyrim. How many resources do you think went into that game? If Bethesda did not have other games coming out the pipeline do you think they could sustain that kind of development cycle for TES?

In a recent PC Gamer on of the developers at Bethesda talk about how envious he was of Blizzard and Valve because they had a revenue stream that Bethesda could only dream about.

[Morroian]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Yep. Brent said on his blog when he left that he didn't like the direction the franchise or the whole company was taking and said he decided to part ways.

You need to read more of what he wrote on his blog, that may have been a factor but he wanted to do something new as evidenced by him leaving the games industry.

[Fast Jimmy]

Atakuma wrote...

So what? Other people that worked on those games just as much as he did are still at bioware. What makes Brent Knowles so special that his decision to leave is some kind of warning sign?

He was lead writer for most of the games Bioware is lauded for, including DAO.

So... you know how people say Bioware makes the best plot-driven games, and how much they loved how their choices branched to different conclusions that were all well written, how there were always surprises that threw them for a whirl, etc.,etc.,etc.? 

He was a big part of that. He wasn't just a mook programmer or artist. He was a big part of the soul of the company.

[Fast Jimmy]

Morroian wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Yep. Brent said on his blog when he left that he didn't like the direction the franchise or the whole company was taking and said he decided to part ways.

You need to read more of what he wrote on his blog, that may have been a factor but he wanted to do something new as evidenced by him leaving the games industry.

I did read his blog (and still do). You're right, that wasn't his only reason. I can get not wanted to work 70 hour weeks for years on end. And that's the nature of being in a high spot in a video game company, unfortunately.

But it was ONE of his reasons. 

You can put up with a lot at a job that demands a lot of you. Especially if it is a job you love. But if you feel that the job is going to become something it wasn't before or you would be forced to work in a way that wasn't what you wanted, that's a powerful factor to take the steps to get out of that job.

[Zjarcal]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

So what? Other people that worked on those games just as much as he did are still at bioware. What makes Brent Knowles so special that his decision to leave is some kind of warning sign?

He was lead writer for most of the games Bioware is lauded for, including DAO.

Lead... writer? That was Gaider (also the lead writer for DA2....). I assume you meant lead designer.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 18 décembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Realmzmaster wrote...

How many have died between 2009 and 2011. I do not know but I can assume that some are no longer with us. Idealism is always nice until it hits reality. The reality is that games now need to cover their costs and make a decent profit. It took Bethesda 5 years to make Skyrim. How many resources do you think went into that game? If Bethesda did not have other games coming out the pipeline do you think they could sustain that kind of development cycle for TES?

In a recent PC Gamer on of the developers at Bethesda talk about how envious he was of Blizzard and Valve because they had a revenue stream that Bethesda could only dream about.

This has always been the case. Video games have always needed to make money. The companies that were around in the 90's and are still kicking today are the ones that made quality games back then and continue to make them today. That's not a path to riches, but it is a path to sustainability, continued growth and FIERCE customer loyalty, as evidenced by Bioware and Bethesda.

Bethesda is lucky to have another IP to make money off of in Fallout.

If only Bioware had another IP out right now too that could bring in revenue. A series that could really have a Massive Effect on the gaming industry and get just as much accolades as Dragon Age.

Its too bad that's not true. Otherwise Bioware wouldn't have an excuse in the world not to take its time with Dragon Age.

[Fast Jimmy]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lead... writer? That was Gaider (also the lead writer for DA2....). I assume you meant lead designer.

I apologize! You are correct, he was lead designer, though he did provide a LOT of the writing during his time there. 


Either that, or he's actually a former Australian soccer player.

[link]http://en.wikipedia....i/Brett_Knowles[/link]

[DragonAgeLegend]

No way! DA2 is actually really great! The only negative is the constant re use of maps and I'm pretty sure Bioware know this and are not going to make the same mistake again. Imo it is a really great game, worth playing especially if you've played DAO!

Have fun and take care.

[devSin]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I apologize! You are correct, he was lead designer, though he did provide a LOT of the writing during his time there.

I don't remember Brent Knowles ever writing anything? He was always design that I can recall (I think he possibly also gave us that travesty of a script compiler for BG).

James Ohlen was the big cheese, before TOR crushed him into the little pasteurized slice that he is now. Kevin Martens I think did writing and design, but he's long gone. Luke is the real writer, having written one of every two words that have ever gone into a BioWare game, and guess which team he works on now.

Modifié par devSin, 18 décembre 2011 - 04:03 .

[Fast Jimmy]

[quote]Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Dragon Age franchise was supposed to destroy the concept of the RPG as only an action/adventure game, not join them. Bring balance to the gaming industry, not lead it into darkness![/quote]

[/quote]

I'm guessing no one picked up my Revenge of  the Sith paraphrase here?

[Fast Jimmy]

devSin wrote...

 Luke is the real writer, having written one of every two words that have ever gone into a BioWare game, and guess which team he works on now.

...Team Edward?

[Agamo45]

It is pretty bad, yes.

[Monica83]

it is...

[warthriller]

I don't know why, but I always like things people hate. I absolutely HATED Origins, the gameplay was slow, the characters imo, were hateable, and the story was boring. I got DA2 and so far, I'm loving it, at least a 9/10 from me. I'm not too far in, but the combat is so much more fun, it FEELS like a new game, not like a WoW clone.

[Mr Fixit]

bEVEsthda wrote...

To me, the game, any game like DA:O is less demanding in what it tasks the player with, than TES games. Rewards also tend to be more immediate and progress is more clearly experienced by the player. So by the logic of how Bioware needed to "expand their market", and how they perceived that should be done, Bethesda should have needed it even more, after Morrowind.

But look at what Bethesda did instead, and learn how you truly expand an audience.

Very true. In light of Sykrim's unprecedented success, all that talk of "niche" RPG genre that has to change and streamline (how I detest that word) itself to death in order to avoid "dying" and to remain "current" does sound hollow, doesn't it?

The numbers of Skyrim (and DA:O, let's not forget) show that when the company is uncompromisingly committed to quality and loyalty to its core customers, 9 times out of 10 sales will follow. Everything else is just a poor excuse.

The one thing about DA2 that strikes me personally more than anything else (more than waves, recycled content, style&atmosphere...) is the utter lack of ambition and attention to detail. Playing previous Bioware games, whatever you may think of them, you could feel the obsessive love and care that went into every single detail, the worlds and characters were almost alive. They were truly the games for the gamers by the gamers.

DA2, unfortunately, feels like a genetically engineered mass-market product: pretty, playable, stylish, but ultimately devoid of character and soul. The thing that has me worried is that it seems to be Bioware's intention to press on in the same way. ME2, although a good game that I enjoyed, shared many of these shortcomings. Someone said it best: ME1 feels like more than the sum of its parts; ME2 doesn't. While its parts are very good, I just couldn't shake the feeling that it didn't aspire to be all that it could be. It's in the small things that beauty lies.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 18 décembre 2011 - 06:50 .

[PretentiousCat]

In all honesty.
I wanted a refund.
But I can't get one because it's the PC version.
One day I'll maybe finish it. Maybe. After 10 hours I just couldn't go into the same dungeon over and over.
Do fetch quests for the same person over and over.
And then when I have a pack full of gear that I can't give to my party, that gets depressing.

Overall not what I was expecting. Normally when a sequel is made, efforts are made to make it have the things that made the first game worthy of a sequel. This does not.

[WhiteKnyght]

Funny, I don't see people criticizing Skyrim for doing some of the things people complained most about DAII for.

They redesigned all the game's playable races.

They re-use a lot of graphics(although they do give them a different layout)

Not to mention Bethesda has a very bad habit of breaking more things than they fix with patches, their games have excessive lagging, as well as their entire voice cast consists of like five people per game. Half the time Skyrim moves like it took an arrow in the knee and makes me feel like someone stole my sweetroll!

One thing Bioware does good. They know how to fix stuff. They never lag, and they have epic taste in voice actors.

[jbrand2002uk]

You know what I find to be a more immersive RPG full of more Originality than DAO ? Freelancer and this was made back in 2003 for gods sake (http://en.wikipedia....cer_(video_game))
By the now defunct Digital Anvil which makes DAO released nearly 7yrs later look poor,obsolete and out of date in terms of both graphics, story and interaction for the player

[jbrand2002uk]

The one thing I love about the VA in DA2 its in properly spoken and pronounced real English not that retarded mispronounced mess that is American English( Remember yanks its Arse not Ass)

[Morroian]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Funny, I don't see people criticizing Skyrim for doing some of the things people complained most about DAII for.

They redesigned all the game's playable races.

They re-use a lot of graphics(although they do give them a different layout)

Also they streamlined the character creator and ability trees.

I don't agree about the graphics though, Skyrim uses the same textures in dungeons of a similar type they haven't re-used the same dungeon like DA2 did.