506 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

Well one thing I feel I should say.

Some of the gameplay in Origins wasn't my favorite. The story of Origins and DAII are what have me hooked.

But just about any type of gameplay is okay by me as long as I can kick ass. Although I prefer DAII's combat cause I have more freedom. I don't just lock on to an enemy and wait for the automatic fighting to end. Every hack and slash feels like my own.

[brightblueink]

Morroian wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Funny, I don't see people criticizing Skyrim for doing some of the things people complained most about DAII for.

They redesigned all the game's playable races.

They re-use a lot of graphics(although they do give them a different layout)

Also they streamlined the character creator and ability trees.

I don't agree about the graphics though, Skyrim uses the same textures in dungeons of a similar type they haven't re-used the same dungeon like DA2 did.

I think comparing Skyrim and a Bioware game is a little weird, anyway. Bioware's games always have an emphasis on story and interacting with other people, particularly companions. Skyrim, and most of Bethesda's other games that I've played, are more big, open wide sandboxes. Exploring is the focus in those, and there's less focus put on getting to know other characters or story in general (although Skyrim's story elements are waaay better than Oblivion's IMO).

I will agree on one point, though--Skyrim obviously had time put into it. Bethesda took the time they needed to make a good product. That's DA2's big failing, IMO--it had some great ideas, so I think it would've been a much better game and a lot less derided by fans if more time and care was sunk into it.

[Morroian]

brightblueink wrote...

I will agree on one point, though--Skyrim obviously had time put into it. Bethesda took the time they needed to make a good product. That's DA2's big failing, IMO--it had some great ideas, so I think it would've been a much better game and a lot less derided by fans if more time and care was sunk into it.

100% correct.

[Fast Jimmy]

Morroian wrote...

brightblueink wrote...

I will agree on one point, though--Skyrim obviously had time put into it. Bethesda took the time they needed to make a good product. That's DA2's big failing, IMO--it had some great ideas, so I think it would've been a much better game and a lot less derided by fans if more time and care was sunk into it.

100% correct.

Agreed.

DA2's good ideas were all the more frustrating because of the potential, potential that wasn't fully developed. Its why I keep coming back to these boards and the game keeps plaguing my mind. It wasn't outright bad. It was just the tease of SO MUCH more than it was. If they had even done one month of consumer testing and made some adjustments, given it a full two year product cycle instead of the 18, I think it would have been a much better game. Time to work on some the narrative gaffs, fine tune some of the dungeon maps, review the wave combat, think of better ways to showcase the depth of the talent trees, the cross class combos and the Tactics...

I could go on and on and on about things that bugged me about DA2, but they have been discussed ad nauseum already. I can understand why people defend DA2 still, since there are some gems of actual worth for each feature they put in that differed from DAO. But its the stuff they started doing and didn't do well that makes the things they took out all the more glaring. If there were things done well to take its place, it WOULD have been a revolutionary turn for the series and could have been a commercial and critical success.

I hoped that Bioware would learn that it needs to focus its efforts and give 100% to its products, both in terms of timelines and budget. We shall see if that happens, but it seems like Bioware has spread the franchise out in a million directions, trying to constantly release DLCs, books and promote other outside versions of the IP through anime, live action and the such. I'd prefer that the whole team just hides in a cellar for the next two and a half years and comes out with a fantastic DA3. Or hides in the same said cellar and comes out holiday 2012 with an awesome expansion.

But it seems Bioware is struggling to wave the Dragon Age franchise flag in as many directions as it can to keep itself relevant. Which means we may get a summer expansion and a DA3 release by next Christmas.

[Monica83]

Bethsheda did an excelent work with skyrim....

They improved almost all.. Even the skill...Works better with perks you can design defined and various character..

[xkg]

Monica83 wrote...


Bethsheda did an excelent work with skyrim....

They improved almost all.. Even the skill...Works better with perks you can design defined and various character..

Can't agree here with you. I don't like this new system at all.
And you can't design more defined character that you caould before (in Oblivion for example) Without the basic atributes I have no idea now if my character is strong or is he dexterous, is he dumb or smart ? So how can he be "more defined" ?

All i know now that he is good at one handed weapons, or good at smithing or ... nothing beside that. And this is nothing new - skills were already there in previous TES games.

Modifié par xkg, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:07 .

[Monica83]

xkg wrote...

Monica83 wrote...


Bethsheda did an excelent work with skyrim....

They improved almost all.. Even the skill...Works better with perks you can design defined and various character..

Can't agree here with you. I don't like this new system at all.
And you can't design more defined character that you caould before (in Oblivion for example) Without the basic atributes I have no idea now if my character is strong or is he dexterous, is he dumb or smart ? So how can he be "more defined" ?

All i know now that he is good at one handed weapons, or good at smithing or ... nothing beside that. And this is nothing new - skills were already there in previous TES games.

Well at beginning can seems is been streamlized but in fact is not..

In oblivion all skills are tied to all stats in skyrim sort off but with the difference you have only 3 stat to use.. Oblivion was frustrating about skill..

Example if you remember the swordmanship you must spend the time to raise like mhhh 50 point for make a stupid rotating disarm attack..

In skyrim those attacks are present at the beginning and the perks add something that before was not present.. things like
Critical Hits..
Speed increases..
Damage increases..
Bleeding..
And other tiny effect that add depth at the combat per se... this works also with all other skills but basically...

Its true you have only 3 stat but if you try you notice you can tweak them better to make a sort of custom class..In oblivion that won't happen was frustrating sometimes because basically there are many many stats..And yes you can tweak them but not in a perfect manner.. You can create a limited admount of preset of character balancing skills and things like that...

In skyrim you can begin in one direction and evolve in a new total direction.. So you want make a sneaky thief mage? you can easily.. You want make a pure warrior? you can.. You want make a versatile character designed to have some cards to play in different situation.. You can and also with perk you can build a character in better manner.. I tested many different kind of character and since for me is much better design custom character here than oblivion.. Maybe is just me but i think Skyrim added a lot of evrithing the only complain i have is some lack of features in the character creation..Try by yourself now  since this is not a thread for skyrim so if you want suggestion o clarification feel free to pm me

[Morroian]

Monica83 wrote...

Well at beginning can seems is been streamlized but in fact is not..

Yeah it is actually, it meets the very definition of streamlined, you just don't want to admit something you like is streamlined because you associate the word with negative connotations in a gaming sense. 

[WhiteKnyght]

Yeah Bethesda make a nice play, if you can put up with the excessive lag, the overly bloated file size of game patches, and the fact that their updates sometimes break more than they fix.

I finished a playthrough earlier, and at the last save the file was 12mb.

Also I'd like to point out that the character creator in Skyrim is pretty fugly. All the male characters come out looking like ugly middle aged men regardless of your options and some of the women in the game make darkspawn look pretty.

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

I wouldn't say it was bad in and of itself. It was just painfully mediocre. Unfortunately it's predecessor was clearly a labor of love and a work of sheer genius. If you played and loved DA:O and were waiting for a sequel of equal or superior caliber you're going to be VERY disappointed.

DA2 Doesn't suck. It's just kinda "meh" and entirely unworthy of the Bioware label.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 19 décembre 2011 - 04:29 .

[Cyne]

It's just very different from origins. I was expecting them to go deeper into the lore, to flesh out the world a bit and expand on the events of origins. instead it became shallower, cut out a lot of lore and history, and became something of a hack and slash. Disappointing. DA2 had the potential to be so much greater than it was.

[Plaintiff]

xkg wrote...

Monica83 wrote...


Bethsheda did an excelent work with skyrim....

They improved almost all.. Even the skill...Works better with perks you can design defined and various character..

Can't agree here with you. I don't like this new system at all.
And you can't design more defined character that you caould before (in Oblivion for example) Without the basic atributes I have no idea now if my character is strong or is he dexterous, is he dumb or smart ? So how can he be "more defined" ?

All i know now that he is good at one handed weapons, or good at smithing or ... nothing beside that. And this is nothing new - skills were already there in previous TES games.

You define and redfine the character constantly throughout the game. Skyrim's system is set up so that how you play dictates the character's growth, not the other way around. It frees you from the restrictions inherent in a class-based system and your skills improve naturally through use.

It's actually not very different from how the previous Elder Scrolls games worked at all.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 19 décembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[Plaintiff]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Yeah Bethesda make a nice play, if you can put up with the excessive lag, the overly bloated file size of game patches, and the fact that their updates sometimes break more than they fix.

I finished a playthrough earlier, and at the last save the file was 12mb.

Also I'd like to point out that the character creator in Skyrim is pretty fugly. All the male characters come out looking like ugly middle aged men regardless of your options and some of the women in the game make darkspawn look pretty.

Bethesda has repeated problems with this, and actually Dragon Age: Origins suffered from a lot of the same issues. That's a large part of the reason why I prefer DA2's art direction.

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

Bethesda has repeated problems with this, and actually Dragon Age: Origins suffered from a lot of the same issues. That's a large part of the reason why I prefer DA2's art direction.

I found I was able to create much more attractive characters, especially women, in DAO than I could in DA2. I spend an inordinate amount of time messing with features in the face creation portion whenever I first start a game.




Also... TES games with ugly characters?

Obviously you haven't played as an Argonian. HAWT!

[xkg]

Plaintiff wrote...

xkg wrote...

Monica83 wrote...


Bethsheda did an excelent work with skyrim....

They improved almost all.. Even the skill...Works better with perks you can design defined and various character..

Can't agree here with you. I don't like this new system at all.
And you can't design more defined character that you caould before (in Oblivion for example) Without the basic atributes I have no idea now if my character is strong or is he dexterous, is he dumb or smart ? So how can he be "more defined" ?

All i know now that he is good at one handed weapons, or good at smithing or ... nothing beside that. And this is nothing new - skills were already there in previous TES games.

You define and redfine the character constantly throughout the game. Skyrim's system is set up so that how you play dictates the character's growth, not the other way around. It frees you from the restrictions inherent in a class-based system and your skills improve naturally through use.

It's actually not very different from how the previous Elder Scrolls games worked at all.

Dude seriously I don't need your teachings. I know TES mechanics in 90% how/why it works.
All I said was that I don't like the new watered down system - that's all.

[Plaintiff]

xkg wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

xkg wrote...

Monica83 wrote...


Bethsheda did an excelent work with skyrim....

They improved almost all.. Even the skill...Works better with perks you can design defined and various character..

Can't agree here with you. I don't like this new system at all.
And you can't design more defined character that you caould before (in Oblivion for example) Without the basic atributes I have no idea now if my character is strong or is he dexterous, is he dumb or smart ? So how can he be "more defined" ?

All i know now that he is good at one handed weapons, or good at smithing or ... nothing beside that. And this is nothing new - skills were already there in previous TES games.

You define and redfine the character constantly throughout the game. Skyrim's system is set up so that how you play dictates the character's growth, not the other way around. It frees you from the restrictions inherent in a class-based system and your skills improve naturally through use.

It's actually not very different from how the previous Elder Scrolls games worked at all.

Dude seriously I don't need your teachings. I know TES mechanics in 90% how/why it works.
All I said was that I don't like the new watered down system - that's all.

Hey, you said you didn't understand how it "defined the character".

The previous system was incredibly broken. I think the trimming was necessary.

[goofyomnivore]

Dragon Age: Origins is a generic and cliche story executed very well.
Dragon Age 2 is full of unique and interesting ideas executed poorly.

That is what I got from the two games.

[J.C. Blade]

Since I can't pretend to know what everyone on this forums like, I can only speak for myself when I say that yes... yes, it is. It's a bad game. Not just a bad sequel - a bad game.

[Mr. Tanner]

As a casual gamer, I enjoyed both games. I thought each had something unique that it brought to the series and the storylines were well done. The only problem I had with DA 2 was that many of the RPG elements that I grew used to in the first game were reduced or removed all together.

[DreamwareStudio]

I've given DA 2 a try while in the midst of playing Dragon Age Origins (about halfway done with my first play through). I find myself so bored and disgusted with DA 2 that I can't continue it at this time. Back to writing and DA:O it is for me.  Origins, btw, is a stellar game!

Modifié par google_calasade, 20 décembre 2011 - 10:34 .

[Gunderic]

Atakuma wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Yep. Brent said on his blog when he left that he didn't like the direction the franchise or the whole company was taking and said he decided to part ways.

This from the guy who worked on every bioware game that people on the forums mention when they say previous Bioware successes. When that guy leaves and says he doesn't like where things are going, it should have been a big 'Oh ****' moment for us.

So what? Other people that worked on those games just as much as he did are still at bioware. What makes Brent Knowles so special that his decision to leave is some kind of warning sign?

1) He was the lead designer of Dragon Age: Origins.

2) Staying doesn't mean = commitment and approval for the direction of the project. Having an important member of the lead team leave however, does suggest the opposite.

3) He was right.

[Gunderic]

Morroian wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Funny, I don't see people criticizing Skyrim for doing some of the things people complained most about DAII for.

They redesigned all the game's playable races.

They re-use a lot of graphics(although they do give them a different layout)

Also they streamlined the character creator and ability trees.

It's still a significant improvement over Oblivion's 'complex' character creator.

[Gunderic]

The Grey Nayr wrote...


They re-use a lot of graphics(although they do give them a different layout)

What? Riften's look alone has more effort put into it/is more distinguishable than every empty environment in Dragon Age 2. Heck, Riverwood does.

Modifié par Gunderic, 20 décembre 2011 - 12:16 .

[DreamwareStudio]

Gunderic wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Yep. Brent said on his blog when he left that he didn't like the direction the franchise or the whole company was taking and said he decided to part ways.

This from the guy who worked on every bioware game that people on the forums mention when they say previous Bioware successes. When that guy leaves and says he doesn't like where things are going, it should have been a big 'Oh ****' moment for us.

So what? Other people that worked on those games just as much as he did are still at bioware. What makes Brent Knowles so special that his decision to leave is some kind of warning sign?

1) He was the lead designer of Dragon Age: Origins.

2) Staying doesn't mean = commitment and approval for the direction of the project. Having an important member of the lead team leave however, does suggest the opposite.

3) He was right.

I was not active in gaming when this happened, but had I been, it would have definitely given me pause if I was thinking about pre-ordering or buying at full price.  Anytime a long term employee who served in such an important capacity leaves because of vision and creative differences, especially following a buy-out of a company, is a huge warning bell that the company that was bought will no longer be following the same ideals.  That bell is doubly loud when it involves a buy-out from an organization such as EA, who has a long and tragic history with destroying the very essence of what made a company special after they take it over.

Hence the unfortunate drop-off and massive differences between Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age: Origins.