506 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Morroian wrote...

brightblueink wrote...

I will agree on one point, though--Skyrim obviously had time put into it. Bethesda took the time they needed to make a good product. That's DA2's big failing, IMO--it had some great ideas, so I think it would've been a much better game and a lot less derided by fans if more time and care was sunk into it.

100% correct.

Agreed.

DA2's good ideas were all the more frustrating because of the potential, potential that wasn't fully developed. Its why I keep coming back to these boards and the game keeps plaguing my mind. It wasn't outright bad. It was just the tease of SO MUCH more than it was. If they had even done one month of consumer testing and made some adjustments, given it a full two year product cycle instead of the 18, I think it would have been a much better game. Time to work on some the narrative gaffs, fine tune some of the dungeon maps, review the wave combat, think of better ways to showcase the depth of the talent trees, the cross class combos and the Tactics...

I could go on and on and on about things that bugged me about DA2, but they have been discussed ad nauseum already. I can understand why people defend DA2 still, since there are some gems of actual worth for each feature they put in that differed from DAO. But its the stuff they started doing and didn't do well that makes the things they took out all the more glaring. If there were things done well to take its place, it WOULD have been a revolutionary turn for the series and could have been a commercial and critical success.

I hoped that Bioware would learn that it needs to focus its efforts and give 100% to its products, both in terms of timelines and budget. We shall see if that happens, but it seems like Bioware has spread the franchise out in a million directions, trying to constantly release DLCs, books and promote other outside versions of the IP through anime, live action and the such. I'd prefer that the whole team just hides in a cellar for the next two and a half years and comes out with a fantastic DA3. Or hides in the same said cellar and comes out holiday 2012 with an awesome expansion.

But it seems Bioware is struggling to wave the Dragon Age franchise flag in as many directions as it can to keep itself relevant. Which means we may get a summer expansion and a DA3 release by next Christmas.

I agree with you.  However, I think DA2 was an experiment.  An experiment for these new ideas and an experiment to see if they could turn out a AAA title in such a short time.  Honestly, it might have turned out well either way if they hadn't tried to do both at the same time.

[craigdolphin]

To respond to the OP: No, it is not THAT bad. It is more in the line of 'meh'.

It is, however, THAT disappointing if you loved DAO, or if you like your fantasy games to have gravitas and choice.

[Bad King]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Also I'd like to point out that the character creator in Skyrim is pretty fugly. All the male characters come out looking like ugly middle aged men regardless of your options and some of the women in the game make darkspawn look pretty.

I found the character creator to be great in Skyrim- I could actually make decent and realistic male faces which is something that I found hard to do on Oblivion or Mass Effect. Haven't made a female character yet, so can't comment on that.

Regarding DA2, I was very disappointed. A letdown after how good Origins was. If it had a longer dev time I'm sure it would have been a lot better, but unfortunately it was rushed.

Modifié par Bad King, 20 décembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I agree with you.  However, I think DA2 was an experiment.  An experiment for these new ideas and an experiment to see if they could turn out a AAA title in such a short time.  Honestly, it might have turned out well either way if they hadn't tried to do both at the same time.

I concur. If there was a company who could turn out a new sequel in a bare-thin amount of time and have it still be quality, it would be Bioware. Unfortunately, they reached for the stars not only with the dev cycle but also with their feature implementation. They wanted DA2 to be so much more than DAO was, but didn't want to risk putting the appropriate amount of time to make it that.

The final product is one that has been decried by many as lacking an engaging plot, unique environments, balanced combat, consistent visuals and/or cohesive lore. All bad things in an RPG, where details matter.

[gonzalovm]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

It's not a bad game at all from any other small studio is would be fine, but Bioware has a reputation for excellence and this game is not acceptable for a studio of their reputation.

this

[Mr. Tanner]

google_calasade wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Yep. Brent said on his blog when he left that he didn't like the direction the franchise or the whole company was taking and said he decided to part ways.

This from the guy who worked on every bioware game that people on the forums mention when they say previous Bioware successes. When that guy leaves and says he doesn't like where things are going, it should have been a big 'Oh ****' moment for us.

So what? Other people that worked on those games just as much as he did are still at bioware. What makes Brent Knowles so special that his decision to leave is some kind of warning sign?

1) He was the lead designer of Dragon Age: Origins.

2) Staying doesn't mean = commitment and approval for the direction of the project. Having an important member of the lead team leave however, does suggest the opposite.

3) He was right.

I was not active in gaming when this happened, but had I been, it would have definitely given me pause if I was thinking about pre-ordering or buying at full price.  Anytime a long term employee who served in such an important capacity leaves because of vision and creative differences, especially following a buy-out of a company, is a huge warning bell that the company that was bought will no longer be following the same ideals.  That bell is doubly loud when it involves a buy-out from an organization such as EA, who has a long and tragic history with destroying the very essence of what made a company special after they take it over.

Hence the unfortunate drop-off and massive differences between Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age: Origins.

Though, as I stated in a previous post, I enjoyed both the first and the second DA games, I do find myself agreeing with some of the points you have made here.

First, before encountering DA Origins, I avoided games that were of the RPG genre.  As I was in university at the time, I found that I didn't have the time to realy immerse myself in the gameplay and thus enjoy the effort that went into making the game.  It was only on an impulse, and yes I will admit a sale price in the Steam market place, that I purchased a copy of the game while searching for a job after graduation.  Never before has an impulse purchase paid off so well for me.  Not only did it introduce me to the RPG genre, it also convinced me to purchase many of the earlier Bioware titles (Jade Empire, KOTOR, ect.).  Had I stared out on any of these earlier games, I believe I would have grown frustrated some of the more tedious aspects of RPG's.  As I had practice with DA, a game that pulled me in first with it's story and characters, this was not the case.   Had I known about Bioware when the game first came out, I would have happily paid the full price to play the game.  This is not the same with DA 2.  Though I enjoyed the game, I was left feeling that I could have waited a few months untill the prices was reduced to a more reasonable level.

Secondly, the shift in play style between the two games caught me totally off guard.  I had made the assumption that since the style of gameplay worked, at least for me, extremely well in DAO, DA 2 would remain very similar.  Now I had no trouble with the gameplay in DA2, in fact I found it easier than DAO.  This though was not a plus for me as I felt, more often than not, that game had been "dumbed down' to make things easier to figure out.  The quality of the story was still there, and the depth of the characters made them enjoyable to have along as companions, but I still felt that something was lacking.  I can honestly say that I did not mind the repeated use of maps for the areas of less importance to the main storyline.  To my mind, the environment that we were exploring were nothing more than someone's recolection of how things were at the time.  No one's memory is perfect, and it make it easier to tell the story if you don't have to describe every new location in detail.  The less important the quest, the less one should remember about the location.  For me the huge letdown was the removal of the RPG elements that made DAO great for me.  Not being able to change a companion's armor was annoying, and the set weapon's were just as irksome.  It made sense to me that anoyone should be able to fire a bow or crossbow, even if they were horrible at it.  It allowed everyone in the party to at least attempt to soften the enemy at range before risking injury in mele combat.

Lastly, and I know I hinted at this earlier, I felt as if DA2 was not created for those who enjoy traditional strategy based RPGs, but instead created as a kind of 'stepping stone' to introduce new players to RPGs.  Keeping in mind that I had already had a great deal of experience with RPG by this point, the process of leveling up and talent trees seemed so much easier.  In some cases it seemed as if it wouldn't matter how one spent their attribute points, as long as something was leveled up you could get through on the lower levels of difficulty.  This of course was untrue at the higher levels, but the lack of compexity in the talent trees still bothered me some what.  Though I am sure that this isn't true, I was left feeling like I had fewer options to utilize strategy and control to win the battle.

Despite all this I still enjoyed the game, so Bioware must be doing something right even if they have shifted their focus.  I hope you all enjoy your evening.

Modifié par Mr. Tanner, 21 décembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[jbrand2002uk]

Mr Knowles also commented on DA2 going gold and that he was impressed with the game they had made given the timeframe they were given even if it wasn't the sort of RPG that appealed to him
http://blog.brentkno...3/dragon-age-2/
all his other blogs can also be found on ths site

[hioe04]

Yea, I call it as it is. DAO is superb. DA2 is a bad game at face value. Subjective quantification...6-7/10 at best. What makes it worse is that you can totally tell what a rushed job with no TLC it is.

-Quests are boring vs. DAO
-Boring quest are set in same boring environ make playing this game quite tiresome after while
-Unengaging story never had anything close to any resolution at the end
-No world immersion i.e. can't interact with world objects or NPCs unless they have a big glowing pointer over their heads
-Annoying companions i.e. enough with the mage vs. templar #$%
-World is limited to Kirkwall and few outlying areas which are all very lackluster
-Champion of Kirkwall role should be renamed custodian of Kirkwall, really did not feel like an epic adventure
-These crits are meant for Bioware to think about as they go back to the drawing board

I hope the success of Skyrim (even with all the glitches ppl still play thru it which is a testimony to how great the content is) and Witcher 2 puts Bioware to shame.

[Diveos]

I really liked DA2. Combat was fun, story was interesting, Played through, twice I think? For the cost of what I paid. Worth every penny.

[Meris]

hioe04 wrote...

Yea, I call it as it is. DAO is superb. DA2 is a bad game at face value. Subjective quantification...6-7/10 at best. What makes it worse is that you can totally tell what a rushed job with no TLC it is.

-Quests are boring vs. DAO
-Boring quest are set in same boring environ make playing this game quite tiresome after while
-Unengaging story never had anything close to any resolution at the end
-No world immersion i.e. can't interact with world objects or NPCs unless they have a big glowing pointer over their heads
-Annoying companions i.e. enough with the mage vs. templar #$%
-World is limited to Kirkwall and few outlying areas which are all very lackluster
-Champion of Kirkwall role should be renamed custodian of Kirkwall, really did not feel like an epic adventure
-These crits are meant for Bioware to think about as they go back to the drawing board

I hope the success of Skyrim (even with all the glitches ppl still play thru it which is a testimony to how great the content is) and Witcher 2 puts Bioware to shame.

The Bolded part was also true in DA:O.

The italics aren't inherently bad ideas, but rather could have been awesome if only BioWare put time into the game.

The underlined are both personal assersions and, like the italics, aren't inherently bad ideas but could have been implemented better.

[Jitter]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It's great. It's not Dragon Age Origins 2, so there are tears there. It's got less tedious old school RPG mechanics, so there are tears because of that. And there are repeated maps, so there are tears from that. In generals, it's a great game and a lot of fun. Just bring a rain coat to the forums.

Skyrim is out . 

It is Packed with "Old School Mechanics"  and it is owning face. 

And DAII is gathering dust in a bargin bin. 

Looks like that new direction is paying off. 
If you are trying to find the bottom of the bargin bin that is. 

[Realmzmaster]

Jitter wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It's great. It's not Dragon Age Origins 2, so there are tears there. It's got less tedious old school RPG mechanics, so there are tears because of that. And there are repeated maps, so there are tears from that. In generals, it's a great game and a lot of fun. Just bring a rain coat to the forums.

Skyrim is out . 

It is Packed with "Old School Mechanics"  and it is owning face. 

And DAII is gathering dust in a bargin bin. 

Looks like that new direction is paying off. 
If you are trying to find the bottom of the bargin bin that is. 

Skyrim is not packed with old school mechanics.  If it is we have different definitions Old School Mechanics. So what do you mean by old school mechanics?

So what you are saying is that developers should not try something new? If that the case DAO should have never happened.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 21 décembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[lowfi]

i love dragon age origins, i think i replayed that game 7 times with all the mods etc. I really enjoyed the feeling of being part of the world that bioware made just like baldur's gate series, but dragon age 2 was just a piece of crap it just makes me angry to think the same people that could make such a great game that i put 120+ hours into would make sure a piece of crap sequel!! i can only hope that dragon age 3 will be just as great as origins & bioware stops selling themselves out because they can make great games.

[alex90c]

Meris wrote...

hioe04 wrote...

Yea, I call it as it is. DAO is superb. DA2 is a bad game at face value. Subjective quantification...6-7/10 at best. What makes it worse is that you can totally tell what a rushed job with no TLC it is.

-Quests are boring vs. DAO
-Boring quest are set in same boring environ make playing this game quite tiresome after while
-Unengaging story never had anything close to any resolution at the end
-No world immersion i.e. can't interact with world objects or NPCs unless they have a big glowing pointer over their heads
-Annoying companions i.e. enough with the mage vs. templar #$%
-World is limited to Kirkwall and few outlying areas which are all very lackluster
-Champion of Kirkwall role should be renamed custodian of Kirkwall, really did not feel like an epic adventure
-These crits are meant for Bioware to think about as they go back to the drawing board

I hope the success of Skyrim (even with all the glitches ppl still play thru it which is a testimony to how great the content is) and Witcher 2 puts Bioware to shame.

The Bolded part was also true in DA:O.

So you couldn't interact with Kester? The innkeeper at the Spoiled Princess, the barkeeper in Lothering? The doomsayer in Lothering? Ser Bryant? Ser Donall? The templar standing near the highway at Lothering? Nadezda in Dust Town? The guy who can find Leliana a nug? Lanaya?

None of these characters are plot relevant, but you can still talk to them, and if you don't talk to any of them you'll still be able to do all the quests in the game.

[Phaedros]

to answer the OP no .. it's worse.

[PsychoWARD23]

If it was a $20 game from an unknown studio it'd be fantastic, but, it's BioWare, and as such, is awful.

It has very few redeeming features.

[bl0ww]

lowfi wrote...

i love dragon age origins, i think i replayed that game 7 times with all the mods etc. I really enjoyed the feeling of being part of the world that bioware made just like baldur's gate series, but dragon age 2 was just a piece of crap it just makes me angry to think the same people that could make such a great game that i put 120+ hours into would make sure a piece of crap sequel!! i can only hope that dragon age 3 will be just as great as origins & bioware stops selling themselves out because they can make great games.

I feel exactly the same way.. I played the crap out of Origins and loved it even more than i love skyrim. I can't believe Bioware just killed the DA franchise just like that.. Fk it's been more than a year and i still feel so sad.

[Lord Gremlin]

craigdolphin wrote...

To respond to the OP: No, it is not THAT bad. It is more in the line of 'meh'.

It is, however, THAT disappointing if you loved DAO, or if you like your fantasy games to have gravitas and choice.

Best answer in the thread.
It looks THAT bad when you compare it to DAO. As a standalone game it's just mediocre. 5/10.

The point is, they killed the series. DA2 is a kind of game one would take if offered for free or $2-3 on sale. This is not a kind of game one buys at full or even half price. Dragon Age 3 is pretty much doomed to fail...

Modifié par Lord Gremlin, 23 décembre 2011 - 05:56 .

[IElitePredatorI]

Some aspects of Dragon Age: Origins are better than Dragon Age 2 but it works both ways. I prefered the storyline of Dragon Age: Origins but prefered Dragon Age 2 companions and combat.

[DreamwareStudio]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

craigdolphin wrote...

To respond to the OP: No, it is not THAT bad. It is more in the line of 'meh'.

It is, however, THAT disappointing if you loved DAO, or if you like your fantasy games to have gravitas and choice.

Best answer in the thread.
It looks THAT bad when you compare it to DAO. As a standalone game it's just mediocre. 5/10.

The point is, they killed the series. DA2 is a kind of game one would take if offered for free or $2-3 on sale. This is not a kind of game one buys at full or even half price. Dragon Age 3 is pretty much doomed to fail...

I will agree on the price.  I got my copy of DA 2 for $8, and still feel jipped.

I don't know that Dragon Age 3 is doomed to fail.  I hope that it is not.  If Bioware/EA abandon Hawke (who will forever be linked to DA 2) while also returning to their RPG roots and deliver a state of the art environment ala Skyrim and the Witcher 2, I believe they can recover.  It will take a lot of proof in the pudding, however, to lure back the customers they lost...no small feat.

Modifié par google_calasade, 23 décembre 2011 - 10:00 .

[Meris]

alex90c wrote...

So you couldn't interact with Kester? The innkeeper at the Spoiled Princess, the barkeeper in Lothering? The doomsayer in Lothering? Ser Bryant? Ser Donall? The templar standing near the highway at Lothering? Nadezda in Dust Town? The guy who can find Leliana a nug? Lanaya?

What he said is that there's no world immersion in DA2. In DA:O you can't interact with objects, unless its loot or quest-related, and you can't interact with most npcs either, only quest-related ones like Kester, the innkeeper at the Spoiled Princess, Nadezda, Ser Donall, Ser Bryant and Lanaya.

[furryrage59]

I just hope that they have learned from this horrible, horrible experiment.

Would hate to see dragon age die but if it continues along the path of dragon age 2, then it should die, in fact i hope it dies. Nothing good can come from pursuing that line of development (lol 1.5yrs, really?)

[furryrage59]

Meris wrote...

alex90c wrote...

So you couldn't interact with Kester? The innkeeper at the Spoiled Princess, the barkeeper in Lothering? The doomsayer in Lothering? Ser Bryant? Ser Donall? The templar standing near the highway at Lothering? Nadezda in Dust Town? The guy who can find Leliana a nug? Lanaya?

What he said is that there's no world immersion in DA2. In DA:O you can't interact with objects, unless its loot or quest-related, and you can't interact with most npcs either, only quest-related ones like Kester, the innkeeper at the Spoiled Princess, Nadezda, Ser Donall, Ser Bryant and Lanaya.

That's bull crap tbh, i don't think there is a character you can't interact with.

Generic npcs have more to say than the companions of da:2 tbh.

[alex90c]

Meris wrote...

alex90c wrote...

So you couldn't interact with Kester? The innkeeper at the Spoiled Princess, the barkeeper in Lothering? The doomsayer in Lothering? Ser Bryant? Ser Donall? The templar standing near the highway at Lothering? Nadezda in Dust Town? The guy who can find Leliana a nug? Lanaya?

What he said is that there's no world immersion in DA2. In DA:O you can't interact with objects, unless its loot or quest-related, and you can't interact with most npcs either, only quest-related ones like Kester, the innkeeper at the Spoiled Princess, Nadezda, Ser Donall, Ser Bryant and Lanaya.

How do you need to interact with any, minus the innkeeper to complete the game?

[Orian Tabris]

No.