506 réponses à ce sujet

[Phyresh]

I finished DA2 + both DLC's few hours ago, it was an awesome game. It took me about 35 hours, which wasnt too short or long, but i still would like to go back and talk to my companions and do things with them. (which isnt possible, if they wont release a new DLC?) Overall graphics, gameplay, story, actually everything was great. This game is totally in my top 3 favorite games list.

I was thinking about to make a new adventure with different class, but since i havent played DA:O yet, i must ask this: Should i play DA:O instead of doing another journey in DA2? I actually would do both of them, but which one would be better option? Would it be dumb or weird to play DA:O after DA2 or would it enlighten me somehow? Any opinions would be appreciated. And one more thing: if i start playing DA:O, should i get the DLC's too or would i be fine without those?

Modifié par Phyresh, 26 décembre 2011 - 10:07 .

[Dokarqt]

It's not that bad in itself, but suffered a lot from expectations (that's what you get for calling it DA2, people will inevitably compare it to DA1). That being said, even on it's own, I wouldn't rate it higher than maybe 6/10. Definitely worth the money (atleast today when it's so cheap) if you like the fantasy and RPG genre but I felt even on my very first playthrough that I was bored of the game by the third act.

[Oooh shiny]

Phyresh wrote...

I was thinking about to make a new adventure with different class, but since i havent played DA:O yet, i must ask this: Should i play DA:O instead of doing another journey in DA2? I actually would do both of them, but which one would be better option? Would it be dumb or weird to play DA:O after DA2 or would it enlighten me somehow? Any opinions would be appreciated. And one more thing: if i start playing DA:O, should i get the DLC's too or would i be fine without those?

Some people who play Origins after DA2 claim the gameplay in Origins is too slow but I still replay Origins when I can. In anycase Origins is a fantastic game and well worth a play, it won't help much with DA2 as DA2 is practically selfcontained. Maybe give Origins a shot and if you don't like it go back to DA2? 

[GavrielKay]

@Phyresh
I think it depends on what you loved about DA2. If you loved quick flashy combat and being able to finish in 35 hours, then DA:O might not appeal to you as much. If you loved the characters, the interactive storytelling and exploring a video game world, then DA:O has more of those things than DA2 did.

I liked the early DLCs like Return to Ostagar and Soldier's Peak - ones that used the same characters as the main game. The later ones with new companions, Witch Hunt and Golems of Amgarrak etc. were OK, but I didn't like them as well.

[DreamwareStudio]

Phyresh wrote...

I finished DA2 + both DLC's few hours ago, it was an awesome game. It took me about 35 hours, which wasnt too short or long, but i still would like to go back and talk to my companions and do things with them. (which isnt possible, if they wont release a new DLC?) Overall graphics, gameplay, story, actually everything was great. This game is totally in my top 3 favorite games list.

I was thinking about to make a new adventure with different class, but since i havent played DA:O yet, i must ask this: Should i play DA:O instead of doing another journey in DA2? I actually would do both of them, but which one would be better option? Would it be dumb or weird to play DA:O after DA2 or would it enlighten me somehow? Any opinions would be appreciated. And one more thing: if i start playing DA:O, should i get the DLC's too or would i be fine without those?

Assuming you paid full price ($60), it seems like a bad deal to me for DA 2 (I waited and paid around $8.00 for my copy).  You're basically paying $1.71 per gameplay hour.  Compare that to Origins where many paid the same price and racked up 100+ hours to finish the game.

As for Origins, I'm still on my first playthrough, and have to say it's a wonderful game.  I would recommend the Ultimate Edition.  You can get it pretty cheap on ebay.  The in-game DLCs are the best of the lot from what I've seen, though I did quite enjoy Leliana's Song, too.

Modifié par google_calasade, 27 décembre 2011 - 03:09 .

[orionshield]

Dragon Age 2 did make a few mistakes sincerely I think when I compare it to the scope of Skyrim! ..............................................I played DAO since Jan 2010 and DA 2 many times since March and I have decided to say that my opinion about DA 2 is that Bioware compromised deliberately on Dragon Age series to take the profit gained from it and instead put it towards Mass Effect franchise and SWTOR franchise! Thats Theory #1 !..................................................................................................Theory # 2....When Bioware said they were happy with the direction they made for DA 2, that made me upset inside because they made hardcore fans think including me that the entire game and style and the exclusion of ever seeing ferelden again (not that they actually said that but it felt that way) would be a permanent direction! Also, I think Bioware failed to let fans be aware that all they wanted to do was carry the story over to other nations in Thedas to help show that the age of Dragon was the most important age to be had!.........Moreover, the game did 1.repeat many level map designs over and over and over!
2. I think Kirkwall's history overshadowed the age of the Dragon, it felled more like the Slave Age! Dragons weren't a main threat it seemed. (I understand that the Circle tower incident and across Thedas was vital to progress Dragon age's universe, But!
3. I read many articles and people have complained about the lack of customisation a million times over! That was the most important piece to RPG elements and Bioware took it out! No incentive to playing DA 2 cause of that! No Incentive period.( like companion cloths and weapon refinement)!
4. Dragon Age 2 did not surpass Dragon age Origin's fantasy! Meaning DA 2 seemed too pristine, too non gritty, the things you find like torn trousers or Raven Feather had no function! and everything else you found has a trash can image to it which was so blend and lack of imagery! On another note when you pull up your combat wheel, you see like too modern, Health and stamina icons that lack an aged look to it! Everything seemed to cartoony and less artistic than in the first game! The art in DAO really helped with you imagination!
5. Being stuck in Kirkwall was a big issue to many I think! What about visiting Starkhaven city or other close by nations like Antivia or Rivaini??!! Just to get the feeling of travel and what mysteries that lurk in between those places versus walking down a few blocks oh Hi Isabela, and walking down a few more blocks, oh hi Merril! The repetition was too much to bare!!!
6. Why did the Darkspawn have to look so different? why did the elves have to look so different! I remember no one complaining about that! GGG I only complained that the combat style was a little awkward but I still enjoyed it in DAO! In DA 2 the things we loved to see prior weren't there! They were all gone! WHo or what was gone? The unique korkey people that made you laugh like Ruck and the funny possessed boy at Redcliffe "I crave excitement!" and the little stories that really didn't seem to progress in DA 2 like the werewolves or the end results of the Ozamar King or the Elves in the Brecillian Forest! Sure there was a few Dialog exchanged but nothing more, it seemed like other stories like Anders which I barely played with the guy in Awakening some how became one of the biggest plot elements! I barely knew him! But what about the thief in the Denerim Market that was half Human and elf! He was a cool character to have on your team and what about a neat character compared to Shale! That was kinda extravagant!!!
7. The DLCs that came out were longer than the ending to each act in DA 2! For example The Deep Roads seemed too short and less mystic than the first game, The ending incident in Act 2 seemed less epic than in the Game Trailers, And the ending of DA 2 was not bigger! ME 2 did go bigger in their ending than the first but why did DA 2 ending seemed too Melodrama! Maybe a Battle in the bone pit with the antagonist combined with 2 hybrid dragons that were like cousins to the Archdemons from prior blights would make sense! and give the player maybe 2 more HIgh Dragons to battle that may take an hour long would be a good tough fight! and it would be well earned!!!
8. What about other video games out there like Skyrim! They made Rpg Fantasy too Epic where I went back to DA 2 and got bored!
9. I miss Ferelden and I had expected to go back to see it!
10. Finally there was not enough Taverns and Tavern music in DA 2! Just one, imagine that!
........Over all, I want to say I understand Bioware had to progress the story into other parts of Thedas that were nonlinear and that its possible that the divine in Olais will end up declaring an exalted march against the black divine in tevinter and that Ultra Blights will occur at the same time with the grey wardens bringing every nation together but at a Macro scale kinda like the plot in DAO with Ferelden!!!! I believe Bioware is a good company and their employees are admirable people! I respect them totally and I am not really mad at Bioware but I had wished after putting almost 1,000 hours in game play and reading every codex within a 14 month period that my expectations kinda kinda what of been met but I did buy the signature edition, all the DLCs, Books and novels and glad to have em! Good luck Bioware in Dragon Age 3 for I look forward to playing it cause I believe I'll be seeing great progress!!!!!!!!!

[Uccio]

Phyresh wrote...

I finished DA2 + both DLC's few hours ago, it was an awesome game. It took me about 35 hours, which wasnt too short or long, but i still would like to go back and talk to my companions and do things with them. (which isnt possible, if they wont release a new DLC?) Overall graphics, gameplay, story, actually everything was great. This game is totally in my top 3 favorite games list.

I was thinking about to make a new adventure with different class, but since i havent played DA:O yet, i must ask this: Should i play DA:O instead of doing another journey in DA2? I actually would do both of them, but which one would be better option? Would it be dumb or weird to play DA:O after DA2 or would it enlighten me somehow? Any opinions would be appreciated. And one more thing: if i start playing DA:O, should i get the DLC's too or would i be fine without those?

If you have not played Origins then deffenetly. In my humble opinion O is much better than 2. You decide but just remember that O is not a anime wondercombat game like 2, its more realistic.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Phyresh wrote...

I finished DA2 + both DLC's few hours ago, it was an awesome game.

Many people will disagree with you. I'm afraid you are in minority, not only here but everywhere else. 

Phyresh wrote...

It took me about 35 hours, which wasnt too short or long,

Origins took 100+ hours to finish. But if you are looking for quick game to complete, the kind of game where you can only focus for 5 secs while doing something more important, I'm afraid you'll be overwhelmed by DAO details. DA Origins is less casual than DA 2.

Phyresh wrote...


but i still would like to go back and talk to my companions and do things with them. (which isnt possible, if they wont release a new DLC?)

You can talk freely with your companions in DAO.  You can talk to them anywhere and anytime you want, but I recommend talking to them at camp. It has better privacy and environment especially during night time. It affect my mood greatly. They will tell you a lot more about themselves. Morrigan will thell you about her child's past. Leliana will tell you her stories and experiences in Orlais. Sten will tell you about the Qunari's warrior life. You mabari dog will try say something not only to you but to your companions as well... All this make your interaction alive and deep. Something that is missing from DA 2 since someone, for unknown reason, thinks it's a bad idea for character development. While some people who are not into party interaction argue it's waste of resource since they want more action, less interaction less customization less everything so that it's easy and "accessible" for them to play. As a result we get DA 2 one dimensional interaction completely focus on quest. Kudos to BioWare and this so called improvement for weakening the element that have been known as their strength.

Phyresh wrote...



Overall graphics, gameplay, story, actually everything was great. This game is totally in my top 3 favorite games list.

grahics = more cartonish although it doesn't necessary a bad thing. I prefer more light based photo realism compared to colorful pallete that don't accurately reflect lights and shadows depth.

story = it's experimental and it's weak. Should have "show and don'tt tell" that time has passed and everything has changed. No idea why Fenris mansion still have non-decomposing bodies. Perhaps it's for furnishing. No idea why the peasant ( beggar? ) stands at the corner ourside the Chantry day and night. Perhaps he's too an organic furniture? 

overall = the game is my bottom 3 less favorite ROLEPLAYING game. It's not so bad as a game itself. If they title it as spin off or JRPG, I may have tolerated a lot of things. But then again I never buy JRPG games. The only JRPG I have interest for 3 decades is Final Fantasy 7 due to it's cinematic approach. But even then I still never play it.

Phyresh wrote...

I was thinking about to make a new adventure with different class, but since i havent played DA:O yet, i must ask this: Should i play DA:O instead of doing another journey in DA2? I actually would do both of them, but which one would be better option? Would it be dumb or weird to play DA:O after DA2 or would it enlighten me somehow? Any opinions would be appreciated. And one more thing: if i start playing DA:O, should i get the DLC's too or would i be fine without those?

It's depend on what are you looking. Are you looking for interaction and story? If so, then yes, you should try origins.
But if you are looking for 30+ hours gameplay with in mind to have a quick play on everything then stick with DA 2. DA 2 is meant for casual players. Even it's interaction and companions has been casualized.  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 27 décembre 2011 - 06:44 .

[Uccio]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...


You can talk freely with your companions in DAO.  You can talk to them anywhere and anytime you want, but I recommend talking to them at camp. It has better privacy and environment especially during night time. It affect my mood greatly. They will tell you a lot more about themselves. Morrigan will thell you about her child's past. Leliana will tell you her stories and experiences in Orlais. Sten will tell you about the Qunari's warrior life. You mabari dog will try say something not only to you but to your companions as well... All this make your interaction alive and deep. Something that is missing from DA 2 since someone, for unknown reason, thinks it's a bad idea for character development. While some people who are not into party interaction argue it's waste of resource since they want more action, less interaction less customization less everything so that it's easy and "accessible" for them to play. As a result we get DA 2 one dimensional interaction completely focus on quest. Kudos to BioWare and this so called improvement for weakening the element that have been known as their strength.

This I never understood. What was so fundamentally wrong with Origins free discussion model (I felt it was awesome-tm ) that it had to be removed? This new "discuss only when we let you" annoyed the heck out of me. It was one of the reasons why I never replayed Awakening and one of the biggest reasons why I am disappointed to DA2. I think I am old enough to know when and where I want to open up a dialogue with my companions. I do not like to be spoon fed. DA2 is for kiddies, there is no question about it.

[DreamwareStudio]

I, too, wondered why they moved away from the free discussion model. It made Kirkwall seem all the more restrictive.

Modifié par google_calasade, 27 décembre 2011 - 09:47 .

[Phyresh]

Thanks everyone for replies to my questions. Even it took "only" 35hours to finish DA2 for me, it wont be problem since i have played other games that took 300hours or/and more. So yeah, im going to try Origins, not sure about the DLC's yet.

[Deathwurm]

Phyresh wrote...
im going to try Origins, not sure about the DLC's yet.

Make sure you get a copy of the Ultimate edition & then all the DLCs are included...the ones that fall inside of Origins story-line add some nice moments to the Game and I've always thought Shale was a great character.

[Morroian]

google_calasade wrote...

I, too, wondered why they moved away from the free discussion model. It made Kirkwall seem all the more restrictive.

They have said why dozens of times. Players generally blasted through the companion dialogue before the game was halfway through. They want to ensure the development of the relaiionships with the companions is more spread out over the game. It actually began with Awakenings.

[Fast Jimmy]

Morroian wrote...

They have said why dozens of times. Players generally blasted through the companion dialogue before the game was halfway through. They want to ensure the development of the relaiionships with the companions is more spread out over the game. It actually began with Awakenings.

I get this, but why do it in a way that where you can't even enter conversation with them? Merrill commenting how her house isn't always this dirty for seven years was pretty annoying.

[veramis]

Use savegameeditor and reduce hawke and friends attack speed by 33% and it will be a lot like DAO combat. Similarly, you can make dao combat like da2 by boosting attack speed by 50%.

Watch at 4:00 to see a funny parody of da2 attack speed

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Morroian wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

I, too, wondered why they moved away from the free discussion model. It made Kirkwall seem all the more restrictive.

They have said why dozens of times. Players generally blasted through the companion dialogue before the game was halfway through.

Have they ever wonder why? Nope.
Well allow me to tell you my personal reason. 
1.) It's my role-play. I decide how, when and what to play. The developer only serve to provide me the platform for me to entertaint myself. Not play the game for me. If I want a complete strong character, interaction and  story, I will rent movie or read fantasy novels. See Mark Hamillton in Star Wars triology? He's a strong character and everyone love Star Wars for the story for decades. Does it give any meaning at all to your roleplaying experience? Nope. There is boundary that need to be considered between strong story and character in video games. It's called player Interaction with their environment/world. Story is a tool to drive player to progress. It's not meant to spoon feed player on every single aspect such as romance and companion interaction or even player character 's personality . If the developer is so much bent on controlling/restricting player experience, just to maximize their potiential story "epicness", then they as may as well just sell novel or anime or movies. 
 

2. ) Origin's companions conversation is so deeply engaging, it's hard to not to blast through the companion's dialogue before the game was halfway through.  It should have been taken as compliment or  positive sign to encourage BioWare to write more dialogues. But Nooooo. They only have 18 months to work with, this thing have to go and casual action players need more fast pacing game. 
 

Morroian wrote...

They want to ensure the development of the relaiionships with the companions is more spread out over the game. It actually began with Awakenings.

And where does it lead to?  Unsatisfactory companion's relationships just like in DA 2. In Awakening at least, I know my character only faithful to Morrigan, therefore absent of romance didn't bother me. But in DA 2? With new  story and new character? ( Heck I don't even have a character to play in DA 2. I know my character can't be gone all the time because it's a stupid thing to consider. There is main protagonist but he/she is nothing more than customizable BioWare's character. Not my character creation. )

Companion interaction and romance add depth to the story even though it's unnecessary. It's true in any story. Be it novel or movie. Any blind person can tell that. Restricting player communication with their companions for  the relationship development to spread out over the game, especially with minimal expository, only cause resentment towards the companions because player are not given their own term to know more about their companions. Quest centric dialogue is not something I would like to hear from my companions.  I received quest all the time from NPCs. What I expect from my companions is just to have a nice private chat with them. To know more about their background, family, preferance and everything about them as normal person does and not as dangerous fanatics anti this and that.. I don't need my companions to talk their personal belief everytime I meet them. I already knew it. I can see it with my own eyes. I'm not interested with endless talks about harming other people life either with forbidden arts or act of terrorism. But whatever...

If BioWare still insist on controlling/spoon feed player experience through player character and their interaction, I'll take it as BioWare is not insterested with my money anymore. Therefore no more BioWare games for me. We will see how it goes with DA 3...

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 27 décembre 2011 - 01:19 .

[Sorgrimos]

DA2 is a good game, that's something I can't deny, it definitely brings a solid experience. But coming from DA:O, which struck me as a more "hardcore" game (For lack of better term), I was surprised at the direction they took with the second. I wasn't too big of a fan of the art style, but I didn't let that impede my enjoyment of the sequel. With DA2's short development time, I can't help but think that they were trying to cash in on the franchise with a quick, good but not amazing game to crank out to fans. Dungeon layouts and maps were reused, and reused, and reused. To no end. I really didn't enjoy the side quests (If you can call them that during early game, many of what I thought would be optional quests were actually required for the plot later on).

[renatsdale]

If you Origins (story, drama, quests, slow motion kills, etc.) and put only the skill system and view/gameplay for multiplataform possibilities from DA2, U'll have a better game than DA2. DA2 is not a bad game but it sux if compared with Origins (PC). It is easier to play and more intuitive but lacks of RPG feeling. I hate action games like God of War and I felt cheated finding out tha DA2 went that way (thats what happens when you have EA at your side... you loose originality for Dumb to play and sell a lot games)... poor customization, have to choose between evil/good and suport mages or templars. Why couldn't I choose a way where both sides suffered less... doing good is not helping one side overwhelm the other... sorry... I hope developers finds a better solution for the final chapter and make it an epic experience. Good luck...
See the failure of D&D 4th Edition and stop "dumbing" things up...
Bioware always made better games than Bethesda's "feel free to do nothing useful" or finish it in 90 minutes games... time to look back and bring the light back!

[DreamwareStudio]

Morroian wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

I, too, wondered why they moved away from the free discussion model. It made Kirkwall seem all the more restrictive.

They have said why dozens of times. Players generally blasted through the companion dialogue before the game was halfway through. They want to ensure the development of the relaiionships with the companions is more spread out over the game. It actually began with Awakenings.

If a player wants to blast through something, that's fine.  It should up to the player.  Not every player is going to be interested in the relationships or character back-stories, but limiting the majority of what your customer base likes is a mistake (I say majority because the sales and customer feedback generally bear that out).  Making sure the relationship is more spread out over the game is another mistake.  It restricts the customer, which is never a good thing.  Again, let the player decide how quickly they want the relationship to move.

I have not yet played Awakenings.  I'm still on my first playthrough of Origins.

Modifié par google_calasade, 27 décembre 2011 - 03:52 .

[Atakuma]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Morroian wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

I, too, wondered why they moved away from the free discussion model. It made Kirkwall seem all the more restrictive.

They have said why dozens of times. Players generally blasted through the companion dialogue before the game was halfway through.

Have they ever wonder why? Nope.
Well allow me to tell you my personal reason. 
1.) It's my role-play. I decide how, when and what to play. The developer only serve to provide me the platform for me to entertaint myself. Not play the game for me. If I want a complete strong character, interaction and  story, I will rent movie or read fantasy novels. See Mark Hamillton in Star Wars triology? He's a strong character and everyone love Star Wars for the story for decades. Does it give any meaning at all to your roleplaying experience? Nope. There is boundary that need to be considered between strong story and character in video games. It's called player Interaction with their environment/world. Story is a tool to drive player to progress. It's not meant to spoon feed player on every single aspect such as romance and companion interaction or even player character 's personality . If the developer is so much bent on controlling/restricting player experience, just to maximize their potiential story "epicness", then they as may as well just sell novel or anime or movies.

This statement is ridiculous. You are playing a bioware game, story and character interaction are what they are all about and if you don't like those things then you should be playing something else.
 

2. ) Origin's companions conversation is so deeply engaging, it's hard to not to blast through the companion's dialogue before the game was halfway through.  It should have been taken as compliment or  positive sign to encourage BioWare to write more dialogues.

It's not as simple as just writing more dialogue. Voice acting is expensive, so the more dialogue there is the more money they have to spend.

But Nooooo. They only have 18 months to work with, this thing have to go and casual action players need more fast pacing game.

That has nothing to do with anything. Casual action players wouldn't even bother with optional dialogue.
 

[SamaraDraven]

I think what both games fail to do is accurately pace companion opinion develop of the protagonist. In DAO all the dialogue was dumped out at the beginning with only a few additions as time progressed. I think that as the player makes choices that either agree or disagree with the others, that new dialogue about their evolved opinion of the pc should be there. Origins did this to some extent. What Alistair does after the Arl of Redcliffe quest is an example of this. Sten too, questions the Warden about the path they've been on. I just think doing this more would have helped the feeling of progression, not restricting dialogue to certain parts of the game and only in relevance to a new personal quest.

DA2 makes you feel like your companions have nothing to say to you unless they need something. In DAO everything worth saying is dumped on the floor from the start - well most of it anyway. As an NPC watches the pc and either comes to dislike him/her or fall in love/become friends, it should be based on actions. Instead you have to essentially bribe your way up the friendship latter in DAO and choose between 2 extremes to make friends in DA2. Why is there not a single character building moment where the pc is either praised or ridiculed based on a normal mission? A "Hey I'm glad you asked my opinion back there" or "How could you?!" would be a refreshing change from the self-centered "friends" DA tends to have. I do think the NPCs were nuanced in a good way that let you know they were chummy outside of questing but idle banter isn't the same as an interaction. DAO made the NPCs seem less "Me, me, me!" when you talk to them but they have nothing new to say despite strong opinions about your decisions after the first third of the game. Again I find myself wishing Bioware would take half of what they had in DAO and merge it with DA2. *sigh* If wishes were poppy...

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 27 décembre 2011 - 09:32 .

[Morroian]

google_calasade wrote...

If a player wants to blast through something, that's fine.  It should up to the player.  Not every player is going to be interested in the relationships or character back-stories, but limiting the majority of what your customer base likes is a mistake (I say majority because the sales and customer feedback generally bear that out).  Making sure the relationship is more spread out over the game is another mistake.  It restricts the customer, which is never a good thing.  

Bioware don't make sandbox games their games are restricted in a lot of ways.

As for what the majority wants given the breadth of criticism of DA2 I doubt you can point to any 1 thing and say sales are due to that. IMHO if they didn't have the blatant area re-use, if the combat animations were toned down a bit and if act 3 was better executed but everything else remained the same the situation would be different.

Having said that I don't think they've quite hit the sweet spot in companion interactions between control and allowing some freedom, but they have improved from Awakenings to DA2 so hopefully they keep refining.

[DreamwareStudio]

Morroian wrote...

Bioware don't make sandbox games their games are restricted in a lot of ways.

As for what the majority wants given the breadth of criticism of DA2 I doubt you can point to any 1 thing and say sales are due to that. IMHO if they didn't have the blatant area re-use, if the combat animations were toned down a bit and if act 3 was better executed but everything else remained the same the situation would be different.

Having said that I don't think they've quite hit the sweet spot in companion interactions between control and allowing some freedom, but they have improved from Awakenings to DA2 so hopefully they keep refining.

I'm aware Dragon Age is not a sandbox game.  My point was this (I really should get more sleep as I seem to be writing posts that only half explain my point):

Once you've started a series, you cannot come out with a vastly different game in the next offering and expect a larger success, especially if that later offering places more restrictions upon the player than the first game did.  There are expectations to be met.  If those expectations are not met, there will be backlash, of which we all know there was plenty.

I'm thinking that backlash was made worse by the blatant re-use, over-the-top animations, and a messed up Act 3 along with a stagnant Kirkwall and many other issues already well covered.  That said, there was more than one single thing responsible for  tanking DA 2.  I think, because it's impossible to nail down any one thing, you have to look at Dragon Age 2 as a complete offering.  Judging Dragon Age 2 on that, however, does not put it in a favorable light, especially when compared to its predecessor or the other offerings that came out in 2011.

Modifié par google_calasade, 27 décembre 2011 - 11:54 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Atakuma wrote...

This statement is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous? You want to play a game or do you want to watch the game play itself? 

 

Atakuma wrote... 

You are playing a bioware game, story and character interaction are what they are all about and if you don't like those things then you should be playing something else.

Correction: BioWare develops a game, story and character for me to play. That's what they are all about. Not for them to play the game themselves. If they want the story to play  itself then they should develop something else like writing novels or making animation or directing movie.In novels, animation or movie there is no player interaction.

In novel, animation and movie you cannot stealth. You cannot lockpicking. You cannot pickpocketing. You cannot have two dimentional companion interaction. You cannot set trap. You cannot explore. You cannot equip your companions. You cannot have romance. You cannot do anything. Everything is restricted. You can only let the story play itself. But it's not a problem at all. Therefore there is no risk getting backlash from players.

Atakuma wrote...

2. ) Origin's companions conversation is so deeply engaging, it's hard to not to blast through the companion's dialogue before the game was halfway through.  It should have been taken as compliment or  positive sign to encourage BioWare to write more dialogues.

It's not as simple as just writing more dialogue. Voice acting is expensive, so the more dialogue there is the more money they have to spend.;

It's their decision to use voice acting in the first place. It's not an excuse to make less content. If they can't afford it then scrap VO. Skyrim prove that majority of people don't bother much wheter their character is voiced or not. 

Atakuma wrote...

But Nooooo. They only have 18 months to work with, this thing have to go and casual action players need more fast pacing game.

That has nothing to do with anything. Casual action players wouldn't even bother with optional dialogue.

It has everything to do with the narration pacing. If you focus on action only, you pay less attention to details in narration like companion's dialogue. Sure you still cover basic narration like one or two dialogue line about their backgrounds but children's tale also cover basic narration.  See the movie,"transformer" "Terminator"Salvation" or any action based movie? 90% of their contents is about action. Where does it leaves room to expository story? 10% only. Is that what you from BioWare game? I don't.
 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 28 décembre 2011 - 01:34 .

[LinksOcarina]

Ukki wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...


You can talk freely with your companions in DAO.  You can talk to them anywhere and anytime you want, but I recommend talking to them at camp. It has better privacy and environment especially during night time. It affect my mood greatly. They will tell you a lot more about themselves. Morrigan will thell you about her child's past. Leliana will tell you her stories and experiences in Orlais. Sten will tell you about the Qunari's warrior life. You mabari dog will try say something not only to you but to your companions as well... All this make your interaction alive and deep. Something that is missing from DA 2 since someone, for unknown reason, thinks it's a bad idea for character development. While some people who are not into party interaction argue it's waste of resource since they want more action, less interaction less customization less everything so that it's easy and "accessible" for them to play. As a result we get DA 2 one dimensional interaction completely focus on quest. Kudos to BioWare and this so called improvement for weakening the element that have been known as their strength.

This I never understood. What was so fundamentally wrong with Origins free discussion model (I felt it was awesome-tm ) that it had to be removed? This new "discuss only when we let you" annoyed the heck out of me. It was one of the reasons why I never replayed Awakening and one of the biggest reasons why I am disappointed to DA2. I think I am old enough to know when and where I want to open up a dialogue with my companions. I do not like to be spoon fed. DA2 is for kiddies, there is no question about it.

Nothing, just like there is nothing wrong with the conversations in 2.  I mean after a point you can't talk to people anymore in Origins anyway.Out of nowhere I have no options to talk to people anymore,I can exhaust most of the conversations in the first chance at dialouge.

Yeah you lose some of that immsersion in 2, but honestly, the fact that the dialouge sequences are tied now to personal quests, gift giving (which is broken in Origins), and are more attune with the friendship/rivalry system, make the conversations just as intimate as the conversations in Origins, if not more so.


It is a pretty nitpicky thing to complain about this, honestly.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Morroian wrote...

They want to ensure the development of the relaiionships with the companions is more spread out over the game. It actually began with Awakenings.

And where does it lead to?  Unsatisfactory companion's relationships just like in DA 2. In Awakening at least, I know my character only faithful to Morrigan, therefore absent of romance didn't bother me. But in DA 2? With new  story and new character? ( Heck I don't even have a character to play in DA 2. I know my character can't be gone all the time because it's a stupid thing to consider. There is main protagonist but he/she is nothing more than customizable BioWare's character. Not my character creation. ) 

Companion interaction and romance add depth to the story even though it's unnecessary. It's true in any story. Be it novel or movie. Any blind person can tell that. Restricting player communication with their companions for  the relationship development to spread out over the game, especially with minimal expository, only cause resentment towards the companions because player are not given their own term to know more about their companions. Quest centric dialogue is not something I would like to hear from my companions.  I received quest all the time from NPCs. What I expect from my companions is just to have a nice private chat with them. To know more about their background, family, preferance and everything about them as normal person does and not as dangerous fanatics anti this and that.. I don't need my companions to talk their personal belief everytime I meet them. I already knew it. I can see it with my own eyes. I'm not interested with endless talks about harming other people life either with forbidden arts or act of terrorism. But whatever...

If BioWare still insist on controlling/spoon feed player experience through player character and their interaction, I'll take it as BioWare is not insterested with my money anymore. Therefore no more BioWare games for me. We will see how it goes with DA 3...

I kind of question what you know about creative writing. See, the funny thing is the pacing you talk about was better in Dragon Age II because of the restrictions.  Now let me explain why.

You claim the companion interactions add depth to the story. They do, that is correct. You also say that when you talk to the characters in an intimate place or something like that, again also makes sense. Getting to know new friends is always a good thing.  But what you fail to see is that in the way Dragon Age II is set up by design, the character interactions have to be restricted so they can give off a proper progression.

Yes, it was good progression. We have a three act setup told in flashbacks by one of the characters.Two of the companions were siblings, one was introduced in Act II, and the rest have personal beliefs, story arcs, friendships, and rivalries we see all the time in both the banter, the dialogue during quests, and the plots own progression. Like a proper story would., nothing is given as exposition about a personal character,which is the style that was used in Origins. Good exposition that I liked,but still, it was treated as such. No one who you just met would openly tell you everything you need to ask in the first go, at least within reason.

This ties back to the realism that Dragon Age II did capture; you need to work at getting those conversations, those romances, those intimate moments. You need to go through the story and earn it, not just expect it immediately. 

As for the content of the questions, yeah we hear Fenris complain about magic, Anders ****ing about the Chantry and Varric basically verbally masturbating over Bianca, but considering the fact that the characters do reveal their past lives to you inbetween all of their beliefs shows something about them. They are reflective about their pasts. We learn about Anders life as a Warden, Fenris' escape from slavery, Varric and his relationship with his brother, Merrills desires and obsessions, and so forth. All of this, ties to who they are now. Fact of the matter is, they should be complaining about what they hate because of their experiences. Like good characters, their experiences have either colored their perception of events and forces them to go through a personal arc, something that many of the Origin characters lacked, sadly.

So it seems to me, at least, your only problem is the fact that you were restricted into when you can talk to them. Because when you do, you still get to know them rather well. So I fail to see any substance in your argument other than that point.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 28 décembre 2011 - 02:32 .