34 réponses à ce sujet

[SynGMW]

I would've sided with the Arishok if it had been possible. The Qun is really intriguing to me, and I think it's impressive that he put up with as much as he did before acting.

[Veritas]

While I agree with most that the Qun, in and of itself, is an abhorent way of life, to me: no freedom of choice, of discovering how you are or can grow to be etc, I have to fully agree that the only person (in one play through as a warrior, and one that I tried to play as honorable) I came away respecting was the Arishok. I actually wanted to help him burn the city to the ground, to put Avelines head on a pike at the front gate for incompetence and to give Isabella to him, tied in a Ox yoke to march all the way back to Par Vollen (and she was my actively romanced love interest). As a matter of fact I did give her to him (though I gamed the system so I could keep her as a useful companion game wise) just for the satisfaction of doing so. Hawke seems to me to be less the Champion of Kirkwall and more the Chump of Kirkwall with his merry band of incompetent sidekicks. Maybe it is just my play-through and things will be different the next time, choosing different options, but I feel that the best thing that could have happened for Kirkwall was if Hawk's ship had sunk with all hands on it's way from Fereldon.

Modifié par Veritas007, 18 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[specter7237]

Veritas007 wrote...
but I feel that the best thing that could have happened for Kirkwall was if Hawk's ship had sunk with all hands on it's way from Fereldon.

That sir, remains to be seen....

[vigna]

Isn't Isabella to blame for all this? Her selfish (self-preservation is inherently selfish i suppose)desire  to save her own hide over the citizens of kirkwall, etc are what started the whole mess. She's hard to respect as anything other than a good thief and liar.

Modifié par vigna, 18 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[SmokePants]

So, what happens if Isabella brings back the book and you allow him to haul her off? Does he just leave?

[Pileyourbodies]

Yup they just walk off and varric mentions that she escapes with the book

[Augustei]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

Yup they just walk off and varric mentions that she escapes with the book

I hope shes the type who will be out for revenge..... So I can kill her

[Shin Kicker]

fluorine7 wrote...


I thought it is demand of the Qun to just get the book. As for all the purging and cleansing... if that is the demand, then it won't be just a 300 team, it'd be an army. Qunaries are not stupid, they don't just throw themselves at a war they can not win. I think unless the Qun directly communicate them through some magical means, it acts like all religion: it's an obscured principle which can be interpretated in many ways. So Arishok, after suffereing from human for 3 years, finaly decide to interprate the Qun in a violent way. 

If it is the original demand of the Qun, why did Arishok waited for 3 years? When Hawke offered to get the book back for him, Arishok said :too little, too late. So there's a point during that 3 years, he'd leave peacefully with the book. If you handed him Isabella with the book, he would leave without more violence (so I've heard). 

So cleansing the city is not the demand of the Qun, not if he has the book. 

Yeah, the Arishok did seem to just snap at the end of Act II.  He couldn't take what he was seeing around him any more and took a highly violent "interpretation" of the Qun.  There was at least as much justification for starting the war when Sister whatsername's zealots captured and killed the Qunari diplomatic group.  But they killed the sister instead of the whole town.  In contrast, Aveline was just asking for the elves, and the conversation hadn't even progressed very far when the Qunari just started killing everyone.

It didn't seem to me that Arishok was planning a siege the entire time.  They were bound by the Qun to find the book, and the more time they spent in Kirkwall with all the stuff that was going on, the more frustrated and angry they got.  So when the elf thing came up, the Arishok took the most nuclear option he could in defending them.  In righteous anger, the Arishok captured all of the nobles and starts berrating them/killing them for what he sees as their weakness and corruption.

But if Isabella comes back with the book, then the Arishok's actual mission is completed, and he has an out to leave (without losing face and without abandoning the Qun).  He then is willing to leave, provided he has the book and the thief (capturing the thief does seem to be a part of his mission, and he duels Hawke if Hawke refuses to hand Isabella over).  The whole taking over the city and punishing their weakness and decadancy doesn't seem to have ever really been a part of their mission.  To me it seems more like a massive losing of temper after years of the being in a place they hate and that hates them.  (Which honestly sounds pretty realistic given what kinds of things have started actual wars and fighting).

That's my interpretation of what happened, anyway.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I don't think the Arishok was even planning to take over Kirkwall in that fit of anger. He is not that stupid. It's a violation of the Llomerryn Accord and geopolitically speaking, permanent occupation was unfeasible at this time.

What I think the Arishok intended to do is hold hostages, the nobility. And use those hostages to pressure for the return of the tome. I do not think he intended to kill them really. His killing of the Viscount (which was a shame) might have been to hit their morale. But I don't think he wanted to take over the city now. He thinks it's a corrupt mess that only the Qun can fix, but that will come later.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 mars 2011 - 10:22 .

[Medhia Nox]

The Qun is a purpose driven life - you have a purpose and you are meant to pursue it. That is why the Qunari find the people of Thedas (modern day thinking) disgusting. It has no purpose. It is self-serving and often self-destructive. People indulging in base animal instincts with no direction for their lives. I can't say I disagree.

That's why the Tal Vashoth are despised by the Qunari. They serve their base impulses - and are no longer Qunari. You will probably never see a Qunari rogues guild, or a Qunari brothel, you might not even see Qunari taverns... because these are places that breed iniquity.

As for their mages. Their mages police themselves - just talk to Ketojen. They don't need to be locked in towers because they know full well that they need a "handler" to watch them and make sure they don't become corrupt. Being a mage to them is being Chosen (they consider it an honor) you are required to bear a great burden for the Qunari people - but it is still a burden. It is an honor if you carry it well.

For Hawke that could have been easy. There could easily be a roll for "Ambassadors" in the philosophy of the Qun. People not 'yet' directly of the Qun who act as go betweens - naturally they would need to be flexible with what they did, and did not, tolerate.

Anyway - people who hate self-control will likely hate the Qun, but the Qun know that there is slavery (to base impulses) in freedom.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 18 mars 2011 - 10:24 .