260 réponses à ce sujet

[philbo1965uk]

nightlordv wrote...

I am so glad I bought the game through Steam. They use their own verification programs and I never had any problems with them.

With the greatest of respect...that statement makes you look a right idiot.

STEAM is the ultimate DRM....you even sign up to a SSA that gives them the right to ban your ass if you name call anyone in games or on the forum.

[Seifz]

philbo1965uk wrote...

nightlordv wrote...

I am so glad I bought the game through Steam. They use their own verification programs and I never had any problems with them.

With the greatest of respect...that statement makes you look a right idiot.

STEAM is the ultimate DRM....you even sign up to a SSA that gives them the right to ban your ass if you name call anyone in games or on the forum.

Indeed, Steam DRM is even more restrictive than EA's nonsense.  I can't imagine why anyone uses it.

[WanderingIdler]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

As has been repeated several times by the BioWare staff in this thread, and has been verified by many different players who have investigated on their own machines (as opposed to taking the word on one flawed report on a hostile website)  DA2 does NOT use SecuROM for DRM.  (Meaning, "Not to check each time you play to verify that you have a legitimate license for this instance of the game." Which is what the infamous secuROM DRM tool did.)

No - Securom Online (to distinguish it from their media check system) only checks on install - since Bioware/EA have stated that DA2 also does a check on install then it is accurate to equate the two.

The only DRM systems that require an online check every time you play that I know of would be Steam and Bioware's NWN1 Premium Module authentication. Ubisoft have a "persistent connection required" DRM which is arguably worse. However *any* online checks mean that the game is limited in lifespan, can have installation blocked arbitrarily (EA have certainly been guilty of this recently) and poses a potential privacy risk in users not having control of what data is sent out.

For anyone who has ordered a copy of DA2 and not opened it, consider these issues before breaking the shrinkwrap - you should be able to return the game if it is unopened but very few stores will allow refunds on opened games.

Modifié par WanderingIdler, 17 mars 2011 - 02:21 .

[WanderingIdler]

didymos1120 wrote...

WanderingIdler wrote...
I won't be installing DA2 because I have decided to *boycott* it over this DRM issue.

Well, you know, you already bought it.  Not a very effective boycott.

Not sure how you managed to infer that from my post - but you are absolutely wrong. I've not bought it.

[2484Stryker]

So guys, what exactly are the consequences of this officially-nonexistent DRM or release control on my system? Is there a limit on anything that I might do with this game? Like reinstalling it after a reformat or installing it on a new system a few years down the road?

[TacPlay]

2484Stryker wrote...

So guys, what exactly are the consequences of this officially-nonexistent DRM or release control on my system? Is there a limit on anything that I might do with this game? Like reinstalling it after a reformat or installing it on a new system a few years down the road?

You probably will not have any problems, unless the activation server goes down or something Although there are some people saying they have problems installing. The issiue that is being brought up here is that bioware lied about not having securom in the game.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

TacPlay wrote...

... The issiue that is being brought up here is that bioware lied about not having securom in the game.

Except that they didn't.    READ THE FULL STORY before repeatring nonsense. Sheesh. 

secuRoM is the name of a software development division of Sony, and the name of the suite of tools they build.  The one everyone is concerned about is the disc-check.  WHICH ISN'T PART OF DA2.  It's llike saying "After I bought my truck I found this part stamped "Ford" in it, so this must be a "Focus". 

[Thandal N'Lyman]

WanderingIdler wrote...

Thandal NLyman wrote...

As has been repeated several times by the BioWare staff in this thread, and has been verified by many different players who have investigated on their own machines (as opposed to taking the word on one flawed report on a hostile website)  DA2 does NOT use SecuROM for DRM.  (Meaning, "Not to check each time you play to verify that you have a legitimate license for this instance of the game." Which is what the infamous secuROM DRM tool did.)

No - Securom Online (to distinguish it from their media check system) only checks on install - since Bioware/EA have stated that DA2 also does a check on install then it is accurate to equate the two.

The only DRM systems that require an online check every time you play that I know of would be Steam and Bioware's NWN1 Premium Module authentication. Ubisoft have a "persistent connection required" DRM which is arguably worse. However *any* online checks mean that the game is limited in lifespan, can have installation blocked arbitrarily (EA have certainly been guilty of this recently) and poses a potential privacy risk in users not having control of what data is sent out.

For anyone who has ordered a copy of DA2 and not opened it, consider these issues before breaking the shrinkwrap - you should be able to return the game if it is unopened but very few stores will allow refunds on opened games.

Since you admit in your next post that you didn't buy this product, you are guessing, makiing things up, and otherwise talking about somehting with no firsthand experience.  The number of things you got wrong just in this one post means that I no longer take anything you say seriously.

After you've acquired both the game and the tools to actually analyze your system correctly, come back and ask how to use them in a way that will generate meaningful reaults.  Maybe after you do the WORK of determining what's going on you'll be in a position to tell others about it.  Until then, leave it to those who have a basis in real systems and the software, instead of what they "read somehere on the internet.".

[TacPlay]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

TacPlay wrote...

... The issiue that is being brought up here is that bioware lied about not having securom in the game.

Except that they didn't.    READ THE FULL STORY before repeatring nonsense. Sheesh. 

secuRoM is the name of a software development division of Sony, and the name of the suite of tools they build.  The one everyone is concerned about is the disc-check.  WHICH ISN'T PART OF DA2.  It's llike saying "After I bought my truck I found this part stamped "Ford" in it, so this must be a "Focus". 

And I should just take your and there word for it? I'm not the brightest person around.. but i can see when something connects.

http://www.reclaimyo...rol”-To-SecuROM

Modifié par TacPlay, 17 mars 2011 - 04:49 .

[Seifz]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

TacPlay wrote...

... The issiue that is being brought up here is that bioware lied about not having securom in the game.

Except that they didn't.    READ THE FULL STORY before repeatring nonsense. Sheesh. 

secuRoM is the name of a software development division of Sony, and the name of the suite of tools they build.  The one everyone is concerned about is the disc-check.  WHICH ISN'T PART OF DA2.  It's llike saying "After I bought my truck I found this part stamped "Ford" in it, so this must be a "Focus". 

No, your analogy sucks.  It's more like if you bought a game and the publisher promised you that it didn't contain SecuROM and then it actually did contain SecuROM.  Because that's what happened.

If you insist on using terrible car analogies, let's stick with Ford for a moment.  Let's say that I don't want to support Ford in anything that they do because they've repeatedly wronged me in the past.  Let's say that I don't want to buy a Focus because I know that it shares a number of systems and components with other, less desirable Ford models.  Do you see where this is going?

SecuROM Release Control is SecuROM.  It's produced by the exact same team at Sony that produces the disc check, it contains much of the same code that the disc check uses, it leaves many of the same registry entries that the disc check does, and it fails to clean up after itself just like the disc check does.  In addition, it doesn't work for a large number of people who still can't play their game more than a week after release!

Worst of all, we were told that this game contained no SecuROM and that was a blatant lie.  Please stop defending BioWare/EA when they're so clearly in the wrong, here.  It's possible that our friendly community managers were also mislead, but that doesn't absolve the developers as a whole from what happened here.  Someone on that team (likely multiple someones) knew exactly what DRM they were using.

[2484Stryker]

Well it's not like I can sell the game now even if I wanted to (and I don't). So I guess I'll just pop it in and hope it installs correctly. It's not like this SecuROM thing is going to corrupt my system or open it to attack, right? lol

[Sblade]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

TacPlay wrote...

... The issiue that is being brought up here is that bioware lied about not having securom in the game.

Except that they didn't.    READ THE FULL STORY before repeatring nonsense. Sheesh. 

secuRoM is the name of a software development division of Sony, and the name of the suite of tools they build.  The one everyone is concerned about is the disc-check.  WHICH ISN'T PART OF DA2.  It's llike saying "After I bought my truck I found this part stamped "Ford" in it, so this must be a "Focus". 

You have no clue, or you don´t want to have clue

Don´t you remember Bioshock controversy, and Mass Effect 1(that last one got lawsuit). Those were parts of Securom who were not the disk check. But still people were annoyed, in this case, for the limited activations who could NOT be removed.

Yes I know DA2 doesn´t fall into this. I´m just pointing at another part of the suite people seem to be fed up.

Securom is a brand of solutions which most people want to avoid. Sneaking it without proper disclosing is not right.

BTW Thandal. You have omitted my last answer to you, which is in the previous page. It explains that a Release Check is another form of DRM, and that one is another of the Securom solutions.

[WanderingIdler]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

Since you admit in your next post that you didn't buy this product, you are guessing, makiing things up, and otherwise talking about somehting with no firsthand experience.

Not guessing at all, just reading Chris Priestly's post on this - which I can reasonably assume to be correct. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide your proof.

Thandal NLyman wrote...

 The number of things you got wrong just in this one post means that I no longer take anything you say seriously.

Well boo hoo - and your opinion mattered so much to me. *sniff* Perhaps you would care to explain exactly what was incorrect - backing it up with appropriate links?

Thandal NLyman wrote...

After you've acquired both the game and the tools to actually analyze your system correctly, come back and ask how to use them in a way that will generate meaningful reaults [sic].  Maybe after you do the WORK of determining what's going on you'll be in a position to tell others about it.  Until then, leave it to those who have a basis in real systems and the software, instead of what they "read somehere [sic] on the internet.".

I'll have to decline your kind offer to spend money on DRMed software that has no guarantee of installing ten days from now, let alone ten years. I also have no need for lectures on systems analysis from someone who can't handle a basic keyboard correctly.

It should be clear to anyone who understands these issues that this is nothing more than a relabelling exercise with EA/Bioware trying to avoid the name "SecuROM" while having functionality identical to their online activation service. If preventing pre-release usage was the genuine purpose, then it would need only a check of the clock on the computer (followed by a check on an NTP server if connected online to confirm the time). There is no need for third party verification for this - and since Sony/SecuROM are unlikely to be offering this service to EA/Bioware for free, it should be clear to even the thickest fanboy that "Release Control" here is really Installation Control - the same purpose served by SecuROM Online. It's the DRM industry's equivalent of greenwashing (perhaps we should coin the term "DRMwashing" for this?).

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Autolycus wrote...

"secuROM" is the name of a line of software protection tools, and the team within Sony that builds them.
They have many different ones.

Just because it says "Ford" doesn't tell you if it's a "Focus", or an "F150"!

Ohhhhh exclamations marks.....that makes your post so much full of win and validty.

When you stop talking out of your rear end, as I said...it still puts the registry entries onto your computer...that is fact !!!!!!!!!!!!!

(see, I can use them to make a point too)

I suggest if your as smart as you like to think you are, you download securoms own removal tool (lmao..yes they have their own removal tool because they know their software is so hated and hard to remove) and run it....

How do I know this?  Because I do not own a single game with securom on it, I point blank refuse, and the only game I've installed in the last 3 months is the demo and DA2....

I didn't say that there weren't registry entries with the "secuROM" name associated with them.  I said that finding those is like finding a "Ford" stamp on parts in your F150, and claiming that means they sold you a "Focus".  People are confusing the name of the software suite (and team that developed it) with a specific product.  That's all.

And since you boast that you don't actually have the product under discussion, the credence given to your observations suffers considerably.

[lsdiskewl]

The damage control and outright deception of Bioware is truly revolting. So lets see, they lied about the DRM. They lied about the game containing auto-attack, going so far as to lock every thread that brought it up and blamed "pirate versions" for the lack of auto-attack in the leaked videos and then fessed up 12 hrs before the games release. Had its employees attempt to skew metacritic results while hiding who they are.

The rationalizations for these things is truly vomit inducing. Why would you do so much damage to your own credibility as developers and the success of your most popular IP?

[morbb]

Well funny ther is still people defending EA/Bioware on this issue. RYG has posted a decent rebuttal to Bioware's claims about Sony DADC not being SecuRom. Here is another link proving it is SecuROm striaght from Sony DADC, http://www.sonydadc....trol_Solutions/ .
Hard to refute it now since this is right off Sony DADC's Corporate page on products. Seeing how Bioware and EA are being dishonest with their customers and fan base I have now cancelled my preorders of ME3 and will no longer buy from what was once a great developer.

[lsdiskewl]

Yeah, or that the program in question is called SecuRom release control and is in fact DRM...

[TacPlay]

lsdiskewl wrote...

Yeah, or that the program in question is called SecuRom release control and is in fact DRM...

It is a type of DRM, like a disk check is DRM. Not all DRM is bad.. its just all the recent ones are. Without DRM you would have pirates playing online with people who actualy bought the game instead of having to make there own private servers. DRM is ok if the company using it has a proper focouse that there customers come first and that fighting priacy is a lost/loosing battle and a waste of time and money to go after with everything. If the game is always going to get cracked.. then why not reward the customer for actualy buying the game? Why make it harder on the person who buys the game than the person who does not? That makes no sense. 

[lsdiskewl]

TacPlay wrote...
 DRM is ok if the company using it has a proper focouse that there customers come first and that fighting priacy is a lost/loosing battle and a waste of time and money to go after with everything.

DRM is never ok when the company lies about its existence.

[TacPlay]

lsdiskewl wrote...

TacPlay wrote...
 DRM is ok if the company using it has a proper focouse that there customers come first and that fighting priacy is a lost/loosing battle and a waste of time and money to go after with everything.

DRM is never ok when the company lies about its existence.

And that goes back to putting the customer first. Why did they hide/rename it? So they could fight piracy and hope the customers wouldnt mind them breaking there word. You can see what someone really cares about by there actions, not what they say. If a company sais they care about there customers but then lies to them, do they really care about the customers? No. Yes, its all over a product you chose to buy so its not all there falt.. but you did so under false information. You cannot just take there word for it if they have proven time and time again that they do not care about you more than getting some cash. That is why I cannot pre-order games anymore.

 A person's word is a powerfull thing. If they do not keep it over and over again, then how can anyone trust them enough to listen to them? An example. I am egearly awating Battlefield 3 to come out but I will not trust what EA sais about it untill i see people playing it and make reviews becouse I have been told many times that X game would be awesome only to be dissapointed or in DA2's case, lied to. So how can you trust anything they say? EA/BioWare makes good games.. but there word is not trust worthy and thats what the problem is here and why the DRM is no good.

Modifié par TacPlay, 17 mars 2011 - 06:32 .

[morbb]

I have no issue with DRM itself, and fully understand why it is used. I have issues with intrusive DRM schemes such as SecuRom and issue they cause, ie Mass Effect 1, and the fact the publisher and or developer is being disingenuous with its customers on the DRM in use. Others have brought Steam into this discussion, but atleast Steam has been honest on their DRM schemes, which at that point its really a matter left up to the consumer to install and use steam for games.