617 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMadCat]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Hunt is On wrote...

Quick question for Stanely.

You said: "How about we want to appeal to as many people as possible, and having explicit sex and/or nudity would be counter-productive?"

Looking at the case of my game, I see a big M on it, M for mature, which means 18+. Now, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or start trouble, but aren't you already alienating a large portion of your customer base just by having "M" as a rating? Why not push the bar a bit further since the game is already labeled as an adult dark fantasy rpg? Curious is all.

Where do you draw the line when "pushing the bar a bit further"? It's not like we drew a graph and calculated mateiculously just what percentage of our player base we would alienate with which feature. It's a matter of the project managers looking at  everything and saying "okay, we're drawing the line here." These decisions are made with consideration for not only the work we are currently doing, but with what our own developers are comfortable with, what our leaders and the leaders at EA will accept, and, believe it or not, how other countries and regions might take it.

You, the player base, may not be aware of it, but when developing a product for a global market, we have to make sure that the game will not be offensive or break the laws of other regions. Some regions may not allow any depiction of violence against children, for example, or may not allow realistic blood and gore, or may have problems with smoking being shown, or whatever. Names have to be changed because they might mean something offensive in a different language. GUI and text have to be able to support different sized words and sentences, not to mention special characters. And all of this is done so that, when localizing the game for other regions, we aren't completely re-making the game.

Now, look at your own situation. You are okay with us pushing the envelope a bit and showing explicit nudity, some bare breasts, maybe even full frontal. Maybe someone else is okay with full frontal nudity on both male and female characters, maybe some want to see explicit sex, and maybe some aren't too comfortable with any of that. So given the tolerances of you, the comfortable one, and Joe Gamer, the uncomfortable one, who do we build the game for?

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Videogames don't usually contain explicit nudity and sex. That's just the way the industry is right now. And we make videogames. We push the limits on mature storytelling and concepts and dialogue, and that's where we're comfortable right now, I suppose. Explicit sex and nudity in games will have to wait. Yes, some players are totally okay with it, but as we've seen in this very thread, not all players are even remotely mature enough to handle even this much sex and nudity yet.

The thing is, as Gadarr mentioned, there are things in this game which are usually absolute no-no's and you guys showed no real desire to shy away from those situations (In this day and age homosexuality and child killing are still rather big lines to push), yet mild nudity, which there is already a ton of in the game thanks to some certain demons, gets covered up with what looks like a last minute hotfix.

I understand there is only so far you guys can go, it just seems odd that when you look at everything else around you in the game that, in my opinion, a fairly important part of the story sort of gets hacked a bit because that is where you guys decided to get conservative and draw the line. And even then the scene could have been much better and shown far less that what it does now. Obviously I'm out of the loop unlike yourself so all I say is speculation and gusses, but from the outside it does seem like a strange move all things considered.

[JamesX]

It is odd you guys seems to believe that it is bioware who establishes societal standards?

What is the point of even bringing Bioware into discussion?

Society is the way Society is. It is not Bioware's fault their market is the WASP of America.

[Varenus Luckmann]

ITT: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls.

[Quercus]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Hunt is On wrote...

Quick question for Stanely.

You said: "How about we want to appeal to as many people as possible, and having explicit sex and/or nudity would be counter-productive?"

Looking at the case of my game, I see a big M on it, M for mature, which means 18+. Now, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or start trouble, but aren't you already alienating a large portion of your customer base just by having "M" as a rating? Why not push the bar a bit further since the game is already labeled as an adult dark fantasy rpg? Curious is all.

Where do you draw the line when "pushing the bar a bit further"? It's not like we drew a graph and calculated mateiculously just what percentage of our player base we would alienate with which feature. It's a matter of the project managers looking at  everything and saying "okay, we're drawing the line here." These decisions are made with consideration for not only the work we are currently doing, but with what our own developers are comfortable with, what our leaders and the leaders at EA will accept, and, believe it or not, how other countries and regions might take it.

You, the player base, may not be aware of it, but when developing a product for a global market, we have to make sure that the game will not be offensive or break the laws of other regions. Some regions may not allow any depiction of violence against children, for example, or may not allow realistic blood and gore, or may have problems with smoking being shown, or whatever. Names have to be changed because they might mean something offensive in a different language. GUI and text have to be able to support different sized words and sentences, not to mention special characters. And all of this is done so that, when localizing the game for other regions, we aren't completely re-making the game.

Now, look at your own situation. You are okay with us pushing the envelope a bit and showing explicit nudity, some bare breasts, maybe even full frontal. Maybe someone else is okay with full frontal nudity on both male and female characters, maybe some want to see explicit sex, and maybe some aren't too comfortable with any of that. So given the tolerances of you, the comfortable one, and Joe Gamer, the uncomfortable one, who do we build the game for?

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Videogames don't usually contain explicit nudity and sex. That's just the way the industry is right now. And we make videogames. We push the limits on mature storytelling and concepts and dialogue, and that's where we're comfortable right now, I suppose. Explicit sex and nudity in games will have to wait. Yes, some players are totally okay with it, but as we've seen in this very thread, not all players are even remotely mature enough to handle even this much sex and nudity yet.

While that is an understandable position, why the decision to change morrigan's bra? Why not have her wearing the same bra 'naked' as she does wearing her signature robes?

And that still doesnt explane why the female demons (and that wood nimph like woman) are showing more then the love scenes. And besides, the love scene with morrigan would have been better if she was still wearing her normal outfit, since it's way more appealing then the weird bra and body mess it comes with.

And out of sheer curiousity, which country/region counts this as a 18+ game?

[The Hunt is On]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Hunt is On wrote...

Quick question for Stanely.

You said: "How about we want to appeal to as many people as possible, and having explicit sex and/or nudity would be counter-productive?"

Looking at the case of my game, I see a big M on it, M for mature, which means 18+. Now, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or start trouble, but aren't you already alienating a large portion of your customer base just by having "M" as a rating? Why not push the bar a bit further since the game is already labeled as an adult dark fantasy rpg? Curious is all.

Where do you draw the line when "pushing the bar a bit further"? It's not like we drew a graph and calculated mateiculously just what percentage of our player base we would alienate with which feature. It's a matter of the project managers looking at  everything and saying "okay, we're drawing the line here." These decisions are made with consideration for not only the work we are currently doing, but with what our own developers are comfortable with, what our leaders and the leaders at EA will accept, and, believe it or not, how other countries and regions might take it.

You, the player base, may not be aware of it, but when developing a product for a global market, we have to make sure that the game will not be offensive or break the laws of other regions. Some regions may not allow any depiction of violence against children, for example, or may not allow realistic blood and gore, or may have problems with smoking being shown, or whatever. Names have to be changed because they might mean something offensive in a different language. GUI and text have to be able to support different sized words and sentences, not to mention special characters. And all of this is done so that, when localizing the game for other regions, we aren't completely re-making the game.

Now, look at your own situation. You are okay with us pushing the envelope a bit and showing explicit nudity, some bare breasts, maybe even full frontal. Maybe someone else is okay with full frontal nudity on both male and female characters, maybe some want to see explicit sex, and maybe some aren't too comfortable with any of that. So given the tolerances of you, the comfortable one, and Joe Gamer, the uncomfortable one, who do we build the game for?

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Videogames don't usually contain explicit nudity and sex. That's just the way the industry is right now. And we make videogames. We push the limits on mature storytelling and concepts and dialogue, and that's where we're comfortable right now, I suppose. Explicit sex and nudity in games will have to wait. Yes, some players are totally okay with it, but as we've seen in this very thread, not all players are even remotely mature enough to handle even this much sex and nudity yet.

Though I do not agree with the general hypocrisy of society, I appreciate your response, which was both respectful and enlightening.

Thank you, the game is great with or without nudity. Twas a simple question of curiousity on my part

On another note, perhaps I take these ratings the ESRB sets up too seriously, for there seems to be little difference between T and M.

Everything below T is generally for kids, T contains a bit of mature content, but not too much blood, gore, or suggestive themes, etc. 

M I've always thought of as being young adult/adult only games, the types that deal with mature subject matter (drugs, alcohol, sex, rape, extreme violence/gore, bad language). I guess what the ratings board is trying to say, even after all these years is: "Games are generally for kids, always have been. Why cater to adults? Very few play video games (not true, in the slightest). The M rating is just there to make adults think it's actually a step up from T rated products, when the differences are slight or watered down, in most cases."

Anyway, I've said my peace. Thanks for the response, Stan.

[lv12medic]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot...

In case people haven't realised this but DA:O is a video game about story.  Video games are an artistic medium but they're still a technical peice of software that has to be designed and built by human beings.  Maybe they designed the game to have nudity and decided to leave it out later?  Maybe putting the underwear on was a design choice put in later on?  Maybe they forgot that Morrigan doesn't wear the clunky bra they threw in?

Some people here seem to be accusing Bioware of false advertisement, when, even in the trailers the characters were wearing the same underwear.  Visually, the scenes may look clunky or odd or funny or stupid.  But has anyone thought about what sex is? 

They could have made the scenes super sexy without revealing anything drastic like in Mass Effect with clever camera angles and fading effects and such.  But sometimes (spoiler of life) sex can be completely clunky and awkward as well.  The romance scenes in DA:O aren't there necessarily to show the dirty deed, but show all the emotions that build up to it, during it and after it.  Did anyone watch the faces of the characters in the romance scenes?  There is so much unsaid emotions in the faces that I could feel what they were feeling regardless of the underwear.

Anyways, as for the point of this entire thread.  I seriously doubt Bioware/EA will make any "Adult Patch" because DA:O is the way it is based off their design decisions.  DA:O is, afterall, a videogame that has to be designed, built, engineered, tested... and after all that may still have problems.  I don't know of a single thing ever designed by man that has worked perfectly from its inception.

[dan107]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Where do you draw the line when "pushing the bar a bit further"? It's not like we drew a graph and calculated mateiculously just what percentage of our player base we would alienate with which feature. It's a matter of the project managers looking at  everything and saying "okay, we're drawing the line here." These decisions are made with consideration for not only the work we are currently doing, but with what our own developers are comfortable with, what our leaders and the leaders at EA will accept, and, believe it or not, how other countries and regions might take it.

You, the player base, may not be aware of it, but when developing a product for a global market, we have to make sure that the game will not be offensive or break the laws of other regions. Some regions may not allow any depiction of violence against children, for example, or may not allow realistic blood and gore, or may have problems with smoking being shown, or whatever. Names have to be changed because they might mean something offensive in a different language. GUI and text have to be able to support different sized words and sentences, not to mention special characters. And all of this is done so that, when localizing the game for other regions, we aren't completely re-making the game.

Now, look at your own situation. You are okay with us pushing the envelope a bit and showing explicit nudity, some bare breasts, maybe even full frontal. Maybe someone else is okay with full frontal nudity on both male and female characters, maybe some want to see explicit sex, and maybe some aren't too comfortable with any of that. So given the tolerances of you, the comfortable one, and Joe Gamer, the uncomfortable one, who do we build the game for?

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Videogames don't usually contain explicit nudity and sex. That's just the way the industry is right now. And we make videogames. We push the limits on mature storytelling and concepts and dialogue, and that's where we're comfortable right now, I suppose. Explicit sex and nudity in games will have to wait. Yes, some players are totally okay with it, but as we've seen in this very thread, not all players are even remotely mature enough to handle even this much sex and nudity yet.

I say you draw the line between doing something well and not doing it at all. Obviously having sex in your underwear is ridiculous. So doing the sex scenes the way that you did them completely destroys the mood and turns what should've been a passionate and emotional moment into a cringe-worthy joke. Personally I'm all for sex and nudity in games, but even I'd prefer a fade to black over this half-baked attempt.

[schnaucl]

I also think it could have been handled more tastefully. It did throw me out of the game for a moment.



I think the average age of gamers is actually around 35, which suggest they're old enough to handle truly mature content.



If games want to be taken seriously as an artistic and/or story telling medium, then they can't back down on stuff like this. It ruins what should be a pivotal scene.



I understand that Mass Effect was made by different people within the company, but I don't think there's anything wrong other developers at BioWare or other game companies looking at how ME did it and figuring out what worked or what didn't.



Personally, I think the most real, emotional scene in that game was after love interest helps the PC up from the floor and there's that moment before they're interrupted by Joker. I think the developers did a tremendous job with body language in that scene and it was the thing that convinced me that graphics can really add an important layer and meaning to the story.



I feel like body language was largely ignored in this game, but that's a topic for another time. (And I'm certainly not saying ME always did it right, just for the record. Both of them having the PC randomly crossing his/her arms quite frequently in what looks like either an annoyed or defensive gesture).



I think people are just asking that BioWare follow through on the emotional promise and not go halfway with it. Again, no one is asking for a money shot.



I think of it like this, BioWare is telling a story and part of that story has an emotional component that ends with sex. It's just like reading a book where characters fall in love and sex occurs. It doesn't have to be graphic, in fact, I prefer that it not be, but it does have to feel real and tastefully done.



As for the violence vs. nudity discussion, yes, at least in America violence pretty much gets a pass. But in this particular game you can actually turn the persistent gore off if you like, which I did. There's still plenty of blood it's just not coating all of the party members all of the time.



I realize that developers probably don't have a lot of say over how things are marketed (does anyone really think they'd have chosen the heavy metal music?) but they probably knew it was going to get an M game. So assume your players are by and large old enough to handle mature themes that include both violence and sex.



I think the developers did a wonderful job in other areas of the game when they offer the PC choices that are actually not completely good or completely evil. I think that's extremely difficult to do, and unlike other games that promise shades of grey, BioWare actually delivered. I find that extremely impressive and I'd like to see more games do that. I just would have liked to see that same depth and attention to the climax of the romance subplots.



And yes, I agree that there are other, more important things that need fixing. But I view this discussion as being less about DA:O and more about the art of story telling in video games and where it should go in the future. Do we want to impose limits on it? If so, what kind? Can we impose limits and still have it be taken seriously as an art form and story telling medium? Do we even want it to be taken seriously?



And how seriously do we want to take the sex angle? Fable II has condoms but safe sex isn't really mentioned in this game. What happens when you have darkspawn blood in your system? Are you still fertile? If you are, what are the chances that it would affect a child where one or both parents had been tainted prior to conception? (Those last two points, btw, I think are particularly important for one major story line and while I haven't finished the game quite yet I'm pretty sure if it was going to be an issue it would have been raised before now).



For me, a good RPG video game is a lot like a good book, only the video game takes a lot longer to finish, is more interactive, and I tend to replay it more often than I'll reread any given book. As an adult, I'd like to think the M rating doesn't just stand for extreme or gratuitous violence, but actually handles adult concepts.



At the end of the day, it's an artistic decision that clearly some people disagree with while others agree or just don't care. But I do think it's a useful discussion to have.

[Quercus]

What he/she /|\\ said.



Bioware delivered a M rated RPG which could as well be seen as an interactive novel. And by only delivering the M in violence and not in the mature sexual part is kind of half-made work. We dont ask for porn, we are asking for realism in the sexual M design. Have you ever read a book where the writer wrote "but because some people dont respect nudety, these characters will wear ugly underwear during the big O" when a lovey-dufey scene is happening?

[Dark83]

I'm kind of curious why they went the route of Ugly Underwear as opposed to the ME route of Careful Camera Angles.

[Dnarris]

Dark83 wrote...

I'm kind of curious why they went the route of Ugly Underwear as opposed to the ME route of Careful Camera Angles.

I fully believe, because nudity was intended, however, other influences made them apply a quick fix to avoid the controversy that they undoubtly foresaw.

[dan107]

Dnarris wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

I'm kind of curious why they went the route of Ugly Underwear as opposed to the ME route of Careful Camera Angles.

I fully believe, because nudity was intended, however, other influences made them apply a quick fix to avoid the controversy that they undoubtly foresaw.

That's the impression I got also. Not to start with the conspiracy theories, but I really think that the upcoming MMO played a part in the decision. Since Bio is more or less betting the farm on the MMO, which will doubtlesss be aimed at a Teen raiting, I think they're trying to avoid any kind of controversy that might drive away the (parents of) potential SWTOR subscribers.

[Dnarris]

dan107 wrote...

That's the impression I got also. Not to start with the conspiracy theories, but I really think that the upcoming MMO played a part in the decision. Since Bio is more or less betting the farm on the MMO, which will doubtlesss be aimed at a Teen raiting, I think they're trying to avoid any kind of controversy that might drive away the (parents of) potential SWTOR subscribers.

That makes sense in a grassy knoll kind of way.


Not really, a grassy knoll kind of way....I just wanted to say grassy knoll.

[Kalcalan]

What I find funny with that controversy is that the game includes cross dressing male prostitues and features bestiality. Check the Pearl, I tried all the available options and some are just sick.

I really don't see why "better" love scenes (and by "better" I don't mean that more flesh is needed) can cause such a heated argument.

[Acemath]

Dnarris wrote...

dan107 wrote...

That's the impression I got also. Not to start with the conspiracy theories, but I really think that the upcoming MMO played a part in the decision. Since Bio is more or less betting the farm on the MMO, which will doubtlesss be aimed at a Teen raiting, I think they're trying to avoid any kind of controversy that might drive away the (parents of) potential SWTOR subscribers.

That makes sense in a grassy knoll kind of way.


Not really, a grassy knoll kind of way....I just wanted to say grassy knoll.

I'm not sure on the SWTOR part...Most kids around 14 or 15 haven't even heard about the Star wars universum.And i'm pretty sure 90% of their parents neither.So your opinion on their parents isn't completely right.And besides:You really think kids from that age don't know where to find porn on the interwebs??And let's face it kids from 17 or 18 years old do usually have a job besides school,so they don't need parents to pay for SWTOR

[addiction21]

I like boobies... waffles too!!!!



Wait what are we talking about again?

[ipolee]

YES FOR SOME NACKED BREASTS !



i mean c'mn kids can play hardcore splatter games in us and ppls like who cares , but id it comes to soemthung wonderful like naked boops their like OMFG !!! TITTIS !!! ( btw the usa got the biggest pron industrie in the world )



so get some 1 who makes tgat underwear away pls



kthxbai ! from germany !

[Whizzkidd]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Actually there is a scene in Stephen King's IT where Beverely, an eleven year old girl, has sex with a bunch of twelve year old boys in a sewer, one after the other. King has a fair amount of explicit sex in his books.

[Magic Zarim]

Whizzkidd wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Actually there is a scene in Stephen King's IT where Beverely, an eleven year old girl, has sex with a bunch of twelve year old boys in a sewer, one after the other. King has a fair amount of explicit sex in his books.

LOL yeah and quite gory too. I can't remember the name of the book but it starts out at a summer house along a lake, where an older couple have an affair in a bedroom; the guy tied to the bed having died due to cardial arrest during the deed. Towards the end there's some gruwesome fetish involving a corpse.

[The Demonologist]

Whizzkidd wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Actually there is a scene in Stephen King's IT where Beverely, an eleven year old girl, has sex with a bunch of twelve year old boys in a sewer, one after the other. King has a fair amount of explicit sex in his books.

What. The. Hell.

Steven King... dood. I had no idea he was running out of ideas that bad. Yikes

[Shadow_Viper]

IFSW.

[Magic Zarim]

GBCSE



Now I should just add to my signature line "GBCSE (Go Be Cool Somewhere Else)", right?

[addiction21]

Magic Zarim wrote...

Whizzkidd wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Stephen King writes horror novels, and I don't think he has any explicit sex in his books. Romance novels, while containing explicit sex, couches it all in euphemistic language. Films and television prefer to emphasize sideboob and tease the nudity, rather than displaying it outright, due to audience tolerance and various broadcasting regulations. Why do those producers choose to do all of that, when they all arguably develop material for a mature, adult audience? At some point, they settled on a limit for what they're willing to portray, whether it's due to artistic license, what the audience will bear, what is marketable, or, what the audience expects from that type of product.

Actually there is a scene in Stephen King's IT where Beverely, an eleven year old girl, has sex with a bunch of twelve year old boys in a sewer, one after the other. King has a fair amount of explicit sex in his books.

LOL yeah and quite gory too. I can't remember the name of the book but it starts out at a summer house along a lake, where an older couple have an affair in a bedroom; the guy tied to the bed having died due to cardial arrest during the deed. Towards the end there's some gruwesome fetish involving a corpse.

 
Geralds game

[Stanley Woo]

Crazy. I wasn't aware of any of that stuff in Stephen King's work. I guess I just haven't read enough of it.

[stargazer_b12982]

I really thought BioWare got it right with Mass Effect. I thought the sex scenes were really hot, and they hardly showed anything! Good dialogue and suggestive angles, and iirc the blackout frames between camera angles all did a wonderful job of triggering my imagination. Fox News notwithstanding: BioWare shouldn't try to be responsible for such idiots.



Dragon Age...for everything I love about this game, there just isn't anything sexy about a poorly designed female model wearing underwear that makes me laugh every time I see it. Ditch the underwear, don't show nipples, control the camera angles and lighting. And use better body models!



You guys are absolutely right that it doesn't need to be explicit...the imagination works better anyway. But the scenes still need to be high quality, you can't just throw garbage in and expect it to work.