617 réponses à ce sujet

[Cat Lance]

@Durasteel, please put a spoiler mark in there

so of course, I ended up on the next page.

------

As for the whole we have no right to talk to them about it. That is the entire point of the forums and BioWare, unlike many other gaming companies, has always encouraged open discussion from it's fans. You will note that it isn't often that a dev will come and lay the smackdown on an idea.

People have every right to ask for their nudity or whatever other feature they like. BioWare equally has every right to not give it to them, but at the end of the day, we're still allowed to make our case for our pet features.

So, you don't care about seeing it, that's valid too, but people have the right to ask for it, even if you don't care about it.

Modifié par Cat Lance, 22 novembre 2009 - 06:52 .

[TheMadCat]

kevinblue360 wrote...

If you plan on getting a mod or whatever for it then why say how that the lack of sex or nudity or whatever too away from the game. How can anyone who has played this or any Bioware game think that. The story involves so much more than sex. And my comment about having a wife meant that I don't need a game or anything else to see that. Why not try to come up with story ideas, or other things that don't always have to involve sex. Bioware has stated their stance on this and while there are people out there that will always try to nit pick every sentence, phrase etc... that has to do with that. Oh they said this or they didn't put this in or didn't put that in. Well you know, it is their game, their property and just because we buy a copy doesn't mean we have a right to demean, or trash their hard work.

Honestly, I can't help but think you either didn't read or you didn't understand a word in my post. I never demanded anything nor has anyone else, I called the came the best they've done since BG and one of the best games I've played in 10 years, I said their game was amazing all around. What high praise do I give them to change your notion that I'm "trashing their hard work."? The game is not perfect, it has a few minor things here and there and in my opinion the scene is one of them. That by no stretch of any imagination, minus your own apparently, means I think poorly of Dragon Age. Bioware has their stance, I have mine. I think it could be better and I thought it was odd for them to have more scantly clad woman then a strip club and then come a major part of the story dress them up so to speak and claim it was done to make the scene and game have more taste.

Bioware is the one who added the scene by the way, if they did not I would not be in a thread demanding a sex scene. They did however put one in, and it was half baked all things considered. I'm of the mind set do things right or don't do it at all, they chose to do it and in my opinion and the opinion of many others they didn't do it "right". Shall I not express my opinion? Is this not a forum for general discussion? Should we not mention that maybe in their next game they should perhaps try something different as this one was a little bellow average? Constructive criticism IS NOT the same as demanding and trashing a game. Dragon Age is a great piece of work, that does not disqualify it from having flaws. The scene doesn't detract from the game, but it does detract from the moment the scene is portraying and it is a rather crucial moment in your characters story.

I have no intentions of downloading any of those nude mods as personally the clothing isn't my sole problem with the scene (if it was then I would indeed download a mod however), my solution until someone makes a cut scene I like will be the esc button which is a shame. Again you have missed the entire point of this thread, but that's fine, you aren't the first. And as I said above I'm not expecting nor demanding Bioware do anything, there are tools and the community will use them and there will be a thousand different mods changing that one scene alone, a diferent flavor for everyone.

Well Mass Effect was a different game and style, so I enjoyed the scene you are talking about but I would have enjoyed the game just as much without it. Different people worked on the games, so different ideas were obviously suggested. I guess the angle shots could have worked, but the lack of "realism" did not take away, at least in my experience, from the game. Bioware will never be able to please everyone with their design choices. I enjoyed the whole game.

Different game and style? What does that have to do with specific scenes portraying the same thing? The reason I asked is because I thought Mass Effect's scene did an amazing job and would have loved to have something similar done in Dragon Age. I would have loved Jade Empire's way of having a kiss, a few playful words and a blackout. It's not the sex, it's not the nudity, it's the portrayal that we point out and discuss and comment on. It's the portrayal of the scene that we think could have been improved upon.

[SilverSteelWolf]

Well said. It's unfortunate that this discussion seems to have passed the threshold into recursiveness. It seems as though Stanley has said all he wants to say, the toolset will soon allow for changes to the models, allowing some of the more talented among us to fix the issues we see (alas, I'll be waiting for one of these talented people, since I am not one), and people like you have clearly outlined why many of us feel the way we do.



Yet the prudes/trolls/whatever are going to keep misunderstanding as they are either unwilling or unable to do so. If Bioware has no more to say on the subject it seems the only thing to do at this point is wait or help with mods. It'd be nice to see them address this officially but I think we all know that's unlikely to happen. It now seems that we're just going to keep going in circles as new people keep entering the thread either agreeing with you or calling us "pervs" or somesuch term.

[Sakiradesu]

kevinblue360 wrote...

If you plan on getting a mod or whatever for it then why say how that the lack of sex or nudity or whatever too away from the game. How can anyone who has played this or any Bioware game think that. The story involves so much more than sex. And my comment about having a wife meant that I don't need a game or anything else to see that. Why not try to come up with story ideas, or other things that don't always have to involve sex. Bioware has stated their stance on this and while there are people out there that will always try to nit pick every sentence, phrase etc... that has to do with that. Oh they said this or they didn't put this in or didn't put that in. Well you know, it is their game, their property and just because we buy a copy doesn't mean we have a right to demean, or trash their hard work.

The story emphasizes your relationships with your party members. There's an entire intimacy system for it. From the beginning, when you meet any character, they regard you positively or negatively. That's what a good chunk of the game is about. You have a chance to talk to each and every character about their past, about their role in the situation, and the further you dig, the more you get out of it. Characters open up to you, and your story is affected by what they share with you, just as their story is affected by your own decisions and responses.

There are dozens of gifts that were created for the sole purpose of helping you build these relationships.

And of these relationships, there are platonic as well as romantic ones. The romantic relationships are complicated within themselves. The characters are made to react as real people do. They get jealous. They bicker with one another.

So to reiterate, since your post seems to emphasize nudity and sex... it is not about the nudity or sex. It's to have all the hard work of relationships with these characters that were made to seem very real, then given a very awkward and laughable scene of intimacy.

To put it another way, what if you spent all these hours playing Dragon Age, and the ending is... your main character wakes up in his or her starting area and it was all a dream. None of it ever happened. You'd think... "Wow... that... is god awful."

So, we spend all this time building relationships with our characters to have the same kind of ending and the same feeling. You're made to feel attached to your party members, otherwise they'd be voiceless, faceless peons.

I'm attached to the characters. I like Leliana and Morrigan and Allistair and Aerith and Cloud and Shepherd and the homicidal robot one!

If they're gonna do it, they might as well do it justice, nudity or no.

Modifié par Sakiradesu, 22 novembre 2009 - 07:48 .

[Xaltar81]

Nudity is political these days, thats all that needs be said in here. I don't know about you but if I made a game I wouldn't want it ruined by scandal and boycotts. I would love to see proper nude models in the game and so would my wife but we realise that this choice was never in Bioware's hands. With the slamming that so many games have had for including "questionable" content, there really isn't much choice.



As it is I give huge respect to Bioware for pushing the boundaries as far as they have. We will just have to be patient, it won't be long untill the community makes a nude mod for the game. A nude mod made by players can't be held against Bioware but still gives us what we want. Everyone wins, the prudes don't use it, the rest of us can and Bioware isn't held responsible for fan creations.

[dan107]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

I take it you've never had sex IRL. The sex scene in Dragon Age (Minus the clothes) Showed realistic positions and what-not.

Realistic, eh? Not judging your personal experiences, I'm sure they were wonderful and beautiful in their own way, but just so you know, most people don't have sex in their underwear in real life.

Cat Lance wrote...

Someone earlier asked "what's with the just mod it in reactions," and since I was one of those who said that, I'll explain. BioWare created the game, it's theirs, and they have decided that they won't be removing the granny bras/panties. So, that leaves modding. There's no reason to berate and be rude at BioWare staff or anyone else over this.



Everyone stop insulting people on a personal level.

There is no reason to berate or insult anyone, sure, but the whole purpose of the forums is to voice our pleasure/displeasure with certain aspects the game. My point was that if I'm not satisfied with a particular part of the game, the fact that I can "mod it in" does not in any way change that dissatisfaction. I don't know how to mod, nor do I wish to learn. And I already played through the game once, I never replay games, so a nude mod wouldn't do me any good at this point anyway. All I can do is give my feedback to the devs and hope that they will do things differently next time.

humorouslama wrote...



Nudity may not be possible due to international ratings and lets face it "The Witcher" was hardly a BIG name to get the media all worried about. The Witcher didn't have a "mass effect" style controversy and it never actually shows intimacy, just a nude painted card and has a naked green dryad. Its a poor comparison.

Actually The Witcher is a perfect comparison. It did indeed show intimacy, and it had frontal nudity, content similar to what DA would've had sans the underwear. It's not as if the DA scenes were overly long and explicit. And how popular a game is expected to be has absolutely no bearing on its ESRB rating. My point was that if The Witcher Director's Cut could get an M, DA would too since the content is very similar. Therefore, the censoring decision must've been an internal one.

[Evindale]

Yay for people wanting nude patches. Someone will make one eventually, just like on wow >.<

[Fasterix]

There already is one nude patch out. For those of you familiar with the Oblivion and Fallout 3 Nexus sites, they have recently opened a Dragon Age Nexus, which already has a decent collection of mods, including a rudimentary female nude patch.

[SydneySilence]

I'm just saying there is a on off button for gore, why not nudity?

[Evindale]

hmm guess that makes sense, but see'ing as the models more than likly are skinned with UW permantly, it would involve two sets of models. Gore is just an effect. Not that it would be too hard ... though I wouldnt want to be the poor artist/modeler doing naked dwarves... ><

[SydneySilence]

Haha either way it'd be easy and make a **** ton more sense than orgasm clothes >.>. It's like Amish sex.

[LunSei Sleidee]

...I just wanted to say, I've been seeing this thread staying in this forum for days and noticed that now it has reached 21 pages already. A bit exagerate if you ask me.



No, I'm not prude at all - actually, I have been looking for a nude mod myself when I heard that the sex scenes have.... modern-day bras and underwear in them. :/ I don't care much about staring at nude pixels; but anything that can improve the suspension of disbelief is always a welcome addition so I can understand the issue that brought to the creation of this topic. So, I do approve of a nude patch/mod, especially in a game that doesn't go too subtle about making references to sex and violence.



(.....Even if maybe 21 pages of discussion about a nude patch, is not really going to give a good impression to the casual forum visitor.)

[dan107]

Well maybe the interest that generated 21 pages of discussion speaks to how dissatisfied people are with the way that the situation was handled in the game, no?

[Evindale]

True dan107, plus, its a topic that has links to boobs, always going to be interest.



I think it's still seen as a grey area in the video game industry, kinda like how GTA was all shock horror you can kill people ect, now we have GTA4 and people have stopped kicking up such a frenzy. Sexual content in mainstream games has obviously been around, but nothing too graphic, references and the such. Hey ho I'm probly wrong, but nyeh ^^

[Cat Lance]

dan107 wrote...

Cat Lance wrote...
Someone earlier asked "what's with the just mod it in reactions," and since I was one of those who said that, I'll explain. BioWare created the game, it's theirs, and they have decided that they won't be removing the granny bras/panties. So, that leaves modding. There's no reason to berate and be rude at BioWare staff or anyone else over this.

Everyone stop insulting people on a personal level.

There is no reason to berate or insult anyone, sure, but the whole purpose of the forums is to voice our pleasure/displeasure with certain aspects the game. My point was that if I'm not satisfied with a particular part of the game, the fact that I can "mod it in" does not in any way change that dissatisfaction. I don't know how to mod, nor do I wish to learn. And I already played through the game once, I never replay games, so a nude mod wouldn't do me any good at this point anyway. All I can do is give my feedback to the devs and hope that they will do things differently next time.

Did you read my posts, even the one you quoted? I have repeatedly stated the right of discourse. However, no one comes here to be abused and it only detracts from one's point. There is no reason the discussion cannot remain civil, Dan.

[kevinblue360]

You know what, I wasn't trying to make any of my comments personal. While I understand realism and wanting to keep the moment in the game as real as possible, I was simply stating my inability to understand the significance of it. I feel I should defend Bioware (which of course they don't need me to do) from comments and suggestions from previous posters on here trashing their game, not necessrily in this thread but others, and I just get tired of seeing what I perceive as cheap shots. If Mr. Cat wasn't doing that then I apologize. Although we buy our copy of the game, we don't own it so we actually don't have a right to come on here and trash them on their own boards which they own. Not saying anyone in this thread was doing, I guess I reacted to defensively.

[kevinblue360]

Any of my comments or statements are not directed at anyone here personally. I just give my opinions in general.

[MerinTB]

kevinblue360 wrote...

You know what, I wasn't trying to make any of my comments personal. While I understand realism and wanting to keep the moment in the game as real as possible, I was simply stating my inability to understand the significance of it. I feel I should defend Bioware (which of course they don't need me to do) from comments and suggestions from previous posters on here trashing their game, not necessrily in this thread but others, and I just get tired of seeing what I perceive as cheap shots. If Mr. Cat wasn't doing that then I apologize. Although we buy our copy of the game, we don't own it so we actually don't have a right to come on here and trash them on their own boards which they own. Not saying anyone in this thread was doing, I guess I reacted to defensively.

1 - There are many differing opinions and comments being made in this thread, but I think the general tone of most of us who are discussing the "wrongness" of the clothed sex scene are not looking for pornography, neither trying to TELL nor DEMAND that Bioware do anything.
So many negative responses to the general overall point come down to:
1a - claiming that those of us who have an issue with the scene in question just want sex for some kind of personal perversion
1b - claiming that those of use who state they have an issue with the scene in question want to blame Bioware and/or demand they fix it

It is my firm belief that, for most of us, neither 1a nor 1b are true.  To broadly attack the tone of the thread by blanketly generalizing all of us as falling into 1a or 1b is a logical fallacy - in short, a strawman argument.

2 - I believe, for most, the main issues are:
2a - Morrigan wears more revealing tops during everyday activities (seriously, anytime she runs realistlcally she'd be effectively topless) than she wears when she's being intimate with a lover and this seems illogical as a character/story aspect
2b - showing "soap opera" or PG-13 level sexual encounters (intercourse without nudity) in a game that is M rated with ridiculous levels of violence and gore as well as subject matter you probably don't want your average preteen even knowing exist (child murder, rape, brothels, etc.) seems an obvious doublestandard as to what is "appropriate" - i.e. the whole "I'll let my child watch an R-rate movie with an axe-murderer who dismembers people on screen, as long as those dismembered parts are fully clothed."
2c - stylistic choices on how to show an intimate scene, as in I think almost everyone would rather have either the Mass Effect / prime-time tv style of sexual encounters displayed (artistically with cut aways and angles not revealing any "naughty" body parts and/or bed sheets and/or silhouettes) OR a complete fade to black (like tamer tv shows and most games and such) RATHER THAN the 2a solution (bathing suits during sex effectively) to not showing nudity but wanting to depict an romantic encounter

There is the issue at hand
- most of us who have a problem are arguing points 2a, 2b and/or 2c
- most of the people who are attacking the thread are arguing against 1a and/or 1b

As to why it matters:
For some the relationships part of the game are unimportant.  They are the one probably saying "why do you want sex in a hack and slash game?"  At best they may be only giving gifts and conversing with their followers to get the bonuses for the followers and such.
For others, however, the relationships (friendship and, yes, romance) are a big part of the game to them.  These people (I include myself in this group) enjoy the role-playing of being the character we created and interacting with our party through the gifts and dialogue and, yes, romances ON TOP OF the combat and story of the game.

That is why it matters to some of us.  It is part of the relationships part of the game that seems completely OOC (out of character) for Morrigan.

I guarantee you there wouldn't have been half the stink there is now IF the game had just depicted Morrigan as wearing that furred bra under that scarf of a shirt.
:innocent:

[durasteel]

kevinblue360 wrote...

Although we buy our copy of the game, we don't own it so we actually don't have a right to come on here and trash them on their own boards which they own. 

You know what?  I'm really getting tired of seeing this BS argument made against any and every poster who has the audacity to suggest a way in which this game ought to be improved.  It is absolutely ridiculous.

If we experience a broken quest, or a bugged dialog, or a spot where characters routinely become stuck on invisible barriers, then of course we have the right and the expectation to bring those issues up on these forums.

If we find that a particular weapon type, eg daggers, simply does not seem to be holding its own towards the end of the game, and we think it should, then we should certainly provide that feedback here regarding the game mechanics.

If we are particularly moved by a setting or the dialog of a companion, or we are thoroughly creeped out by the a free verse poem recited by a dwarf driven to madness in the deep roads, then it is altogether appropriate for us to assert as much here on these forums.

Likewise, if we find that a last-minute choice (for so it appears to have been) to add incongruous undergarments to nude character models spoils the mood of a scene obviously intended to convey intimacy, and makes a mockery of a moment intended to carry emotional weight, this is indeed the appropriate venue for asserting that legitimate opinion.

Your asinine pronouncement that we should keep our opinions to ourselves because it is BioWare's game, and we the consumers have no legitimate voice, is an unwarranted indictment of each and every post offering feedback of any sort on these forums.  I make this post, instead of simply responding with "up yours," because I believe that it was not your intention to be insulting or to convey a message of "just pay your money and shut up, or go play some other game."  Nevertheless, that's what you did.  I encourage you to consider more fully the implications of your assertions.

[kevinblue360]

That my friend is a totally different thing. If something is broken or isn't acting like it should that is one thing, but to just say something sucks or ruins the game because you lose the immersive feeling is something else entirely. I don't think my statement was asinine at all. I am not an ignorant person, I just feel like instead of complaining about something, think about the hard work that was put in to the game first, then give your opinions with respect, not from the standpoint of, well I paid my hard earned money so darn it they better listen to me, and I can say whatever I want any way I want. Well you can, but you should really think about what you say and how. If I came across they you thought I didn Durasteel then I apologize. That takes away from what I am trying to say.

[kevinblue360]

Ok Merin TB, I thank you for your respectful response. I understand the whole roleplaying aspect, I just think a big deal was made, and some disrepectful things have been said about Bioware and that was my main reason for even involving myself.

[Trelow-LMG]

Nudity or no, I want a Custer's Revenge mini-game as the result of a successful intimidate check.

[kevinblue360]

Now that would be awesome lol.

[Georg Zoeller]

Jeez, sometimes it feels like this is the only mature topic on the entire forums. No wonder half the development team has committed seppuku

[LaztRezort]

Georg Zoeller wrote...

Jeez, sometimes it feels like this is the only mature topic on the entire forums. No wonder half the development team has committed seppuku

Well, if it make it feel more like home, I could start scaremongering by saying that Bioware is going to force us buy costly DLC in order to get nudity (or, better yet, a romance option with Shale...)

P.S.  I'm also in favor of a minigame, but my ideal one would be a short Pitfall sequence, except instead of pixelated scorpians we'd have pixelated deepstalkers...