617 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Yet that didn't hurt Mass Effect sales at all, so why would BioWare care?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 novembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[Dnarris]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yet that didn't hurt Mass Effect sales at all, so why would BioWare care?

Considering that you can't quantify an unknown, I wouldn't be so certain.

However, the game was successful regardless.

[TheMadCat]

As Maria said, it did nothing to effect their bottom line aside from a bit of heat. In actuality it may have boosted sales because as we know controversy sells.



There is no doubt in my mind this was done as a "politically correct" move, I'm just not sure why.

[MarshalVaako]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Zenon wrote...

@Stanley Woo:

Your answering style suggests, that you have no clue and just try to imply we are a filthy lot. Thank you very much for answering aggressively to fans of the game adding their personal opinion on the way the romantic scenes are handled in the game. That helps us to understand.

I am well aware of how thing could have been done. I merely disagree that things should have been done a certain way, since everyone's got a slightly different opinion on how bad the scenes were, different tolerances of nudity and sex in their games, and whether such things can or should be "patched".

Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's much, much easier to criticize the way somehting was done--especially here on the internet--than it is to try and please everyone all the time. As for the aggressive tone: I'm sorry, but I tend to respond in the way people criticize, because, here on the internet, it seems that's the only way some people know how to talk--in terms of absolutes, hyperbole, and a certain level of certainty (read: arrogance).

So the point of most posters here is, that Bioware chose to show a "love" scene with a sensuous touch without blacking out after the initial kiss. Especially with Morrigan the bra looks a bit out of place. I enjoy the game anyway, but still it seems more like a trade-off for US rating and avoiding such ridiculous discussions like the infamous "coffee shop" scene in GTA4 (?) ... (Not sure about which GTA exactly, since I don't have or play this. Saw a vid in youtube and after reading about this outrageous uproar it caused, the actual video of the scene made me laugh my head off.)

I don't know that anything was done as a "trade-off" with Dragon Age. It is a different product than Mass Effect, developed by a different team than Mass Effect, with a different vision than Mass Effect. Personally, while I don't care for the underwear on the models, either, I think the scenes are not terrible. Could they be improved? Absolutely. Should they be improved? Well, no game is perfect, and I generally disagree that we should devote time and effort into something that is merely disagreeable rather than game-breaking.

Bioware has proven with ME already how nicely they can do a well made love scene with a great balance between erotic and romance without becoming too prudish, nor too explicit.

I hope someone else from Bioware, like Mike Laidlaw, reads this too. I quote:
"From the makers of Mass Effect™, Star Wars®: Knights of the Old Republic™, and Baldur's Gate™ comes an epic tale of violence, lust, and betrayal."

The "lust"-part seems to be a lot more restricted than the violence part... We are not trying to flame Bioware, but like to explore this topic and figure out if there is a chance for this kind of art to show a similar level of (virtual) skin as a normal cinema movie does. We are not talking about porn or any of the like.

I love this game also with Morrigan wearing her bra. Besides there probably will be plenty of mods -- probably soon enough some including nudity for those players, who like it. I also have no problem with that. And I think Bioware doesn't either.

My guess is similar to other people's speculation, that Bioware and EA wanted to avoid any public discussion or bad press concerning the nudity part.

I think it's just that whatever decision we make, someone is going to be offended by it or unhappy with it. You can see how people react to us not including more explicit sex and violence in the game. There is no way that we could change (or not change) the game and magically please everyone.

This I believe is a far better reply then the original. I understand what your saying and am glad you agree the sex scenes could have been alittle better. You are of course absolutely correct that developer time would be better spent elsewhere then on cherographing and developing these scenes.
         I personally am of the camp that one should do something right or not do it at all. I would have rather the screen just faded to black then the scenes we ended up getting. But I can understand and appreacite the attempt. As long as it is understood that it could have been handled better so I have hope that in the future erotic scenes will be done better.

[Blue_dodo]

honestly I couldn't care less about nudity in agame but thats just me I mean if I want t see a nude chick I would ehem go to other sorts of media:whistle:

but thats me

Modifié par Blue_dodo, 17 novembre 2009 - 02:05 .

[Socratatus]

It`s 18 rated in England. It`s got lots of violence that no one seems to mind. i`m legally old enough to see nudity. I`m an adult, so treat me as an adult. what`s the point making a game rated adult, but then no real nudity?



This is why The Witcher stays in my collection forever, not so much because of the nudity, but because it SHOWS nudity and adult themes and treats an adult like an adult.

[Gidzen]

sacredl wrote...

I'm wondering how even this game can be 18+ if there aren't stupid ****** in erotic scene ?

Yea don't they think we can teach them.

[colonel_burger]

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(_)_)====D O=||========> ( X _ X )



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/sarcasm

[lizardglenn]

As pathetic as the rating system here in Australia is eg: keep refusing to give us an R rating for games etc
(gamers do not grow old & stop playing games but old farts that make decisions on our behalf just wont retire or die)
Dragon Age: Origins has an MA (15+ for strong violence) on it here i think people tend to forget that ratings are not universal we miss out on some games for reasons of violence or drugs mostly but sex or nudity could be a problem as well

fallout 3 would not have made it here ( a few other places as well) if the morphine + animation was left in & what this means for games is they have to make many different versions of a single game or a single version worldwide

yes i think Bioware and EA wanted to avoid bad press/problems with all the ratings worldwide & it was a "trade-off" done for many reasons which they should be straight about

a tiny bra & knickers at the very least or fade to black would have been much better instead of the overt censorship of granny under garments used in this case  (god even grannys wear G strings these days)

Modifié par lizardglenn, 17 novembre 2009 - 11:10 .

[Kelston]

Stanley Woo wrote...

How about we decided we didn't want to go the explicit sex and nudity route, and believe that tasteful romance and sex scenes fit the game, game world, genre, and medium better than explicit sex would?

Then how about not beating around the bush?

How about having a consistent artistic vision?

How about not trying to cash in on sex while pretending not to?

How about not speaking condescendingly to the people responsible for your paycheck and then acting offended when called out on it?

Your development team went out of your way to make sure the implementation of sex scenes in the game was highly publicized given that you made sure you showed a hint of it to the press at E3. It is obvious then that your goal was to stir up that controversy as a marketing tactic to attract more people. What exactly did you believe you would attract if in the middle of a fantasy RPG you decided you would throw in a sex scene, continually play coy with your PR responses when asked about the sex scenes after publicizing them, and releasing trailers focused entirely on the prostitution and sex scenes in the game? A sea of chaste academics?

How about you get off your high horse?

Modifié par Kelston, 17 novembre 2009 - 11:17 .

[Mordaedil]

Kelston wrote...

How about not speaking condescendingly to the people responsible for your paycheck and then acting offended when called out on it?

I'm sorry, you must be ignorant. We "people" are not responsible for his paycheck. He receives his paycheck for organizing the play-testers and play-testing the game from his studio. His studio receives funds from various sources and ultimately the product they offer is only partly funded by the end-users. A lot of their income actually comes from governmental funding and via taxing. The 40 or 60 dollars, or Euros or whatever you, personally, spent on the game, is a rather tiny drop in the ocean. Even if all the forum users collected together and decided to rebel the notion, which isn't going to happen, then the drop in funds isn't going to cover even half of a single percent of the income that the game produced in the wholesale, worldwide.

If he is condescending to people, it's because they are acting like retards and he should not need to withhold himself out of some manner of respect for "cash" you or anyone else would be withholding. Ultimately, if this pushes you away from buying the product, that is your decision, but I prefer this community to be cleaned up and act like rational beings rather than the putrid collection of ingrates I scour here every day.

His job is, in part, in keeping order here and sometimes you have to be condescending to a few rimjobs who are not getting the point otherwise.

"Evil" Chris wasn't known as "evil" for nothing. His job was very stressful. And it's no wonder when people seem to elevate their worth as not mere users of a product anymore, but somehow high-time investors with a lot of significance riding on the stocks of Bioware, somehow.

Kelston wrote...

How about you get off your high horse?

Q.E.D. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Stop making demands of Stanley Woo. He is a developer and I think that garners some respect should be demonstrated. If you can't do that, I suggest you move on. You will not be wanted here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am unsure why this is a big woohah, really. Nude-patches are a fact of gaming and there's going to be one, community-made most likely. It is not as if Bioware is even saying "no u dont" and locking us down from doing it or providing it for eachother.

And why is there a desire for an official release? Sure, it'd probably help immersion, even Stan admitted to agreeing with that, but I think they should work on things that really matter. Let the community work on true fluff.

That said, I kinda wished the HD textures package was done officially by Bioware first. It's a bit sad that we'd have to download an extra large package for something that should have been included in the game to begin with (but was not, due to unforeeen occurances). <_<

[Tripedius]

Stanley Woo wrote...

How about we decided we didn't want to go the explicit sex and nudity route, and believe that tasteful romance and sex scenes fit the game, game world, genre, and medium better than explicit sex would?

How about we want to appeal to as many people as possible, and having explicit sex and/or nudity would be counter-productive?

How about we're not making a movie or a sex game, and while it is possible to have tasteful full frontal or sex, you'll have to look elsewhere for it?

How about it doesn't matter how much time we have, it is unlikely that we will decide to include explicit sex and/or nudity in our game?

The soapboxing, nationalism, and personal tolerances have nothing to do with this being our game and we decide what to include and exclude, for various reasons. If y'all are truly "mature" enough to accept sex and violence in your games, you should also be mature enough to accept a lack of sex and violence in your games.

A bit of a lame answer since Bioware did advertise with it. Besides it is just poorly done. Tastefull is good but does not require the show of a bra (or boobs). i think it was a lame attempt to get the best of both worlds. Advertise with the sex thing to get more people to buy the game (if that works it's stupid, cause why would you care about a story or gameplay if you are drawn in by sex) but not doing it in a way to upset the Americans (bioware = american). But it's just critism, it's poorly done. So it isnt a discussion of how it should or should not be in the game, its just a 'nice try but fail' thing. Like how Soldiers Peek failed as it was too short and you didnt even get to keep the keep .
DAO is good, it's not perfect, and we will critise it even the sex scenes that are just silly. I dont want to think: He were the heck did she leave the bra in her normal clothes? But I couldnt care less about boobs. So many ways to have done it better:
- don't show bra/upper body
- fit bra in outfit
But he, the modders will pick up the slack.

[The Hunt is On]

Quick question for Stanely.



You said: "How about we want to appeal to as many people as possible, and having explicit sex and/or nudity would be counter-productive?"



Looking at the case of my game, I see a big M on it, M for mature, which means 18+. Now, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or start trouble, but aren't you already alienating a large portion of your customer base just by having "M" as a rating? Why not push the bar a bit further since the game is already labeled as an adult dark fantasy rpg? Curious is all.

[El Codge]

Bioware should have done it Team America style IMO

[SilverSteelWolf]

I think the "appeal to as many people as possible" line doesn't really work when applied to a game already considered "mature." I mean, if you cut out blood you'd be able to appeal to even more people, right?



I think what many people feel is that games are a viable storytelling medium, and should be able to include the same elements as other mediums. BioWare has been a champion on this front so, perhaps unfairly, they get held to a higher standard. I think BW has placed tasteful sex into a game successfully before, and so it isn't terribly unreasonable to expect that they would continue to do so. When the game is "mature" anyway it seems acceptable for it to have the same level of content as, say, True Blood on HBO.



Finally, I think the RPG element plays into it. At least for me, when there is sex in games like Grand Theft Auto I don't really expect it to be "good." But a BioWare RPG is richly immersive in a way most other games can only aspire to be. With so much vibrance and drama in the game I get the idea that sexual content would be at the same level, after all, romance has a place in nearly every good story.

[morti84]

you've all got the internet just go on porn if you want to get off to pixels, nudity has no place in games it's smutty and geeky.

[Tripedius]

@morti84, I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's not the boobs it's the way the're implemented. They could leave it all out for all I care, but this was a silly solution which made the 'love making scene' irritating. And it's not even porn, it's drawn women.



Btw, aren't you too young to be playing this game? Or at least that is the impression you give.

[morti84]

There have been larger and more important oversights in this game, such as with the laziness shown with Wardens Keep DLC, Archery being ineffective, just look at the other threads in this forum.



Young? Im engaged and have a child of my own, live in a lovely big house and earn a ton of money, perhaps thats where my lack of concern over a load of nerds complaining about sex scenes that didnt give them hard on comes from.

[Gadarr]

morti84 wrote...

There have been larger and more important oversights in this game, such as with the laziness shown with Wardens Keep DLC, Archery being ineffective, just look at the other threads in this forum.

Then why don't you just say so but instead post a condescending comment which doesn't even get to the core of the criticism concerning those scenes?

"There are more important issues to fix." is a valid argument. "Nudity has no place in games and you're all a bunch of immature geeks." is not. See the difference?

[morti84]

meh I'm in a bad mood today

[SheffSteel]

Sex sells... and apparently leaves the customer feeling vaguely dissatisfied, and perhaps rather uncomfortable, afterwards.



It doesn't get much more adult than that.

[Acemath]

I find it strange to see there are so many pro's and cons for sex in a videogame while no one cares about gore,blood etc.I admit i like to watch a beautiful woman,albeit real,pictures or pixelated.What's so wrong with that?I have a gf,2 kids and a healthy sex-life...so i'm not a geek,as far as i know.

Modifié par Acemath, 17 novembre 2009 - 02:37 .

[Belevorn]

*ironic mode on*

Easy solution: next time make all female npcs extremely ugly so the fact having sex with them is terribly disgusting. That way no one will complain about them not being completely nude.

*ironic mode off*



Thinking this is one of the most discussed posts on the forums and reading people bashing Bioware's employees over a nudity/non-nudity discussion is sad imho. Time people spend here asking for nude sex scenes would be best spent on learning how to use the toolset and doing it by themselves.



*sighs* Is nudity such a big deal? I have not seen any sex scene on DA:O ruining the atmosphere of the game, but oh well...