64 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

Simbacca wrote...

{edit} regarding Ammo powers on the Widow Infiltrator: usually when people argue against them, it is because you can still one-shot most mooks without Ammo powers, with just Assassination Cloak and upgrades alone.  That's all well and good, but that's not why I like having both Disruptor and Warp Ammos at my disposable.  The Ammo powers help make the most of all those shots you take outside of A.Cloak.  Sometimes the SMG is right to use with this refresh of Cloak or sometimes you have to use one of your other abilities.  Hell even if you only ever use Cloak over and over again, it still has a base cooldown of 6 seconds.  Any of you only get one Widow shot off every 6 seconds?  That's too slow a playstyle for me, I usually get up to 2-3 more headshots off between each power refresh.

That's exactly my point. When I'm using a weapon like the Widow I'd like to one-shot normal enemies outside of Cloak. The question is what's needed to do that. You already mentioned some 'problems' of Cloak and it has a relatively long cooldown too (you have to wait for Cloak to end before cooldown timer starts). I think the optimal Widow Infiltrator must be able to one-shot most enemies without Cloak but can also use other powers when Cloak isn't needed to move around. I think the extra damage beyond OSOK doesn't add much (powerful enemies require the same number of Widow shots), those skill points are better used on other abilities IMHO.

It looks like @ level 30 3 SR upgrades is enough to one-shot armored mooks (using squadmate to provide Incendiary/Warp/AP Ammo or use Warp/AP Ammo bonus power rank 3 (6 points)) and Disruptor Ammo rank 3 is enough dealing with shields (Zaeed's squad version frees all skill points). This should give some extra build flexibility. You'll have 8 points to spent somewhere else without limiting the things you can do with the Widow - best of both worlds.

[termokanden]

I have enough ammo to keep firing without using Cloak for every shot. As mentioned above you can one-shot many enemies without cloak anyway. I know Cloak is not the same as Charge, but I still use it so often that I don't think Incinerate fits in all that well. I'm not saying it's bad and that you shouldn't use it. But I like focusing on using weapons with my infiltrator. I have fun trying to use Cloak on every cooldown (it's not always that easy when you start taking damage).

In any case I have zero problems dealing with armor. Husks are probably where Incineration Blast is most useful, and there I just go nuts with SMGs and Squad Cryo.

[XCPTNL]

While I have played (Assassin) Infiltrators with Warp Ammo in the past and builds very similar or the same as the build in the OP, I have to admit that a different build gets the job done a bit quicker for me. There's nothing wrong with Warp Ammo but if you look at the whole game you'll see that you really don't need it that often. Shields are the most common protection and there's no real reason to spend 10 points in Warp Ammo if you don't need it that often - although I have done it myself. So as far as Assassin builds go my most successful (in terms of how fast he can clear a level) looks like this:

10 Disruptor Ammo (Heavy)
10 Cryo Ammo (Squad)
10 Tactical Cloak (Assassination)
01 Incinerate
00 AI Hacking
10 Operative (Assassin)
10 Energy Drain (Area)

There's usually a lot of frozen enemies around but I rarely have problems with enemies falling behind cover when I'm about to snipe them because I usually pick out different targets than my squadmates. I use Cryo myself on the SMG and Heavy Disruptor for the Widow to get through the shields. Area Energy Drain fits perfectly because it allows a rather aggressive style of gameplay in most levels (obviously the ones with shielded enemies and geth - so most of the levels). I'm fine with Level 1 Incinerate because between cloaking and draining I don't use it that often and it's sufficient to strip light armor. I have played with Incineration Blast in the past and it's not bad as well but like I said: this is the Assassin build that usually gets the job done the fastest in the majority of the levels.

Modifié par Korjyan, 16 mars 2011 - 01:21 .

[Influ]

I'll likely try different builds after Horizon. Or atleast experiment with bonus powers. Warp Ammo might really be a bit too situational on most missions. It's still my number one choice for Collector missions atleast.

[XCPTNL]

You should probably experiment with your build. It's what I do all the time. I even have some characters I just use for testing. I have played a lot of missions over and over with the same character but with different builds just for comparisons. It's a good way to determine which build suits you the most. Because in the end it all comes down to your personal style of gameplay and if you are not comfortable with a build because you need to play it too passively or too aggressively or something like that... well, it's no fun then.

Personally I don't like retraining powers (except for testing purposes, but I mean over the course of a regular playthrough) so even if I have a power that doesn't work very good (or at all for that matter) like e.g. Energy Drain for some missions I still don't want to change it for just one or two missions. It just seems kinda silly to me if you look at it from a RPG perspective and constantly have your character switch skills and forget about the previous one. That's why I don't switch to Warp Ammo for Collector missions. And it's actually not that much of a difference in my opinion. Yes, you do a little more damage, but you still can't oneshot Assassins, Guardians or Harbinger with it and you can oneshot Drones without it. And as far as damage against armor goes (for example to kill Harbinger faster after removing the barrier or killing the Scions), I can just take Grunt with me and use his Squad Ammo. So I don't retrain powers because of the RPG aspect but I can totally understand if someone doesn't have a problem with it and then I recommend you do it like that and prepare for certain missions properly.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

My planned sniper build:

Squad Disruptor Ammo
Squad/Improved Cryo Ammo
Assassination Cloak
Incinerate 1
Assassin
Heavy Shredder Ammo

Before anyone rips on my bizarre choice, here is my reasoning for shredder ammo. Firstly, on your standard mercenary enemy, it should theoretically do more damage than disruptor ammo per mantis/widow shot, as enemies have more health than shields, and the damage bonuses carry over to health if all shields are shot off (which they should be). As for why I choose shredder ammo over AP, which is only a 10% difference in damage and far less situational, I like the color green, shredder ammo is green, and the name sounds cooler.

I would normally use squad disruptor and switch with squad disruptor to maximize my squadmate damage and CC abilities, depending on the situation.

I don't use incinerate too often because in my past Agent playthrough, I found that it conflicted with Tactical cloak's cooldown too much.

I'm still torn between squad or improved cryo ammo for CC purposes. Probably go with Squad though. My strategy is to have shredder on my sniper rifle and squad disruptor on my team mates, snipe from afar and weaken the enemy, then switch to squad cryo ammo and finish off the rest of the weakened waves. Should be fun.

Edit: Will most likely be bringing Thane, Garrus, or Legion for my squad. All-sniper team = good times. Other choices would be Kasumi and Miranda, and Grunt (as a tank).

Modifié par EffectedByTheMasses, 16 mars 2011 - 08:02 .

[Bozorgmehr]

@ EffectedByTheMasses: Shredder Ammo is useless against shields. When you use the Widow or Mantis and enemy has 1 point in shield left, all ammo powers (except Disruptor) are useless. Only when you use an ammo power which is effective against the first and the second layers will carry damage bonus - using warp ammo versus collectors for example (barrier + health). Shredder Ammo is only effective when you shoot an unprotected organic enemy - like you plan to use Cryo Ammo. Putting it on your SR is pointless and a waste of bonus power and skill points.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Oh, my understanding was that if the shot bypasses one layer completely, bonuses will still apply to the layer underneath. My bad. That's a shame. If what I thought were the case, then I suppose Shredder ammo would have its uses.

I still might use it though, jsut for the pretty colors. Does anyone know if it's possibly to 1S1K an ememy with no ammo power or cloak on Hardcore?

Edit: Also, doesn't this mean that disruptor ammo is actually generally far more useful than warp ammo, as the majority of enemies have shields rather than barriers/armor?

Modifié par EffectedByTheMasses, 17 mars 2011 - 03:05 .

[Bozorgmehr]

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Oh, my understanding was that if the shot bypasses one layer completely, bonuses will still apply to the layer underneath. My bad. That's a shame. If what I thought were the case, then I suppose Shredder ammo would have its uses.

Yeah, it's a shame. Ammo powers make damage call only once (against the first layer they touch). The damage bonus also only applies to the layer it affects. Disruptor Ammo - for example - does work against shield, but you don't get bonus versus health (organics). An organic enemy with 20 points left in shield will limit Disruptor Ammo's bonus to those 20 points, nothing more. Other effects don't work either (no chance to overheat weapons when enemy has defenses, CC effects only work when all defenses are down).

Shotguns are the only weapons capable of freezing, burning or overheating enemies through defenses - eight pellets are fired per shot, each pellet gets its own ammo power damage call, so when 3 pellets take out defensive layer, 5 remain to trigger CC effects.

I still might use it though, just for the pretty colors. Does anyone know if it's possibly to 1S1K an enemy with no ammo power or cloak on Hardcore?

Dunno about Hardcore, but I think it's possible @ level 30 using the Widow with 3 (plus bonus) upgrades.

Edit: Also, doesn't this mean that disruptor ammo is actually generally far more useful than warp ammo, as the majority of enemies have shields rather than barriers/armor?

Depends, Ammo Powers don't add a lot of damage. Heavy Warp Ammo's 50% damage bonus drops to ~20% with a couple of weapon upgrades (which don't affect ammo power damage). The extra damage against health is better though (and still works against enemies with barrier/armor protection).

For me, Ammo Powers are only an option to enable one-shots and/or add powerful CC effect (like Inferno Ammo for Vanguards, CC works through defenses of nearby enemies). 2 SG upgrades are enough to one-shot enemies on Insanity (level 30) with Claymore, ammo powers don't increase killing speed/potential though the panic effect of Inferno Ammo increases survivability.

The visual effects look nice, so if you like to burn/freeze/shred your enemies (for the lulz) go for it

[jasonsantanna]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Oh, my understanding was that if the shot bypasses one layer completely, bonuses will still apply to the layer underneath. My bad. That's a shame. If what I thought were the case, then I suppose Shredder ammo would have its uses.

Yeah, it's a shame. Ammo powers make damage call only once (against the first layer they touch). The damage bonus also only applies to the layer it affects. Disruptor Ammo - for example - does work against shield, but you don't get bonus versus health (organics). An organic enemy with 20 points left in shield will limit Disruptor Ammo's bonus to those 20 points, nothing more. Other effects don't work either (no chance to overheat weapons when enemy has defenses, CC effects only work when all defenses are down).

Shotguns are the only weapons capable of freezing, burning or overheating enemies through defenses - eight pellets are fired per shot, each pellet gets its own ammo power damage call, so when 3 pellets take out defensive layer, 5 remain to trigger CC effects.

I still might use it though, just for the pretty colors. Does anyone know if it's possibly to 1S1K an enemy with no ammo power or cloak on Hardcore?

Dunno about Hardcore, but I think it's possible @ level 30 using the Widow with 3 (plus bonus) upgrades.

Edit: Also, doesn't this mean that disruptor ammo is actually generally far more useful than warp ammo, as the majority of enemies have shields rather than barriers/armor?

Depends, Ammo Powers don't add a lot of damage. Heavy Warp Ammo's 50% damage bonus drops to ~20% with a couple of weapon upgrades (which don't affect ammo power damage). The extra damage against health is better though (and still works against enemies with barrier/armor protection).

For me, Ammo Powers are only an option to enable one-shots and/or add powerful CC effect (like Inferno Ammo for Vanguards, CC works through defenses of nearby enemies). 2 SG upgrades are enough to one-shot enemies on Insanity (level 30) with Claymore, ammo powers don't increase killing speed/potential though the panic effect of Inferno Ammo increases survivability.

The visual effects look nice, so if you like to burn/freeze/shred your enemies (for the lulz) go for it

So with that if I use disruptor ammo on an barrier wielding foe it won't have an effect on overheating his weapon?
Also I was doing the Blue Suns mission taking out the fake signal and had DA on my widow and it seems to me having DA on widow was a waste I did better striping shields with inferno blast and headshot with AP on the widow or use my squad to strip shields and my smg then widow head shot and my DA is @ level 3 , I don't really see the benefit of lvl4.DA , Cryo Ammo the same , either 1pt or 4pt ammo power for squad

[Bozorgmehr]

jasonsantanna wrote...

So with that if I use disruptor ammo on an barrier wielding foe it won't have an effect on overheating his weapon?

Also I was doing the Blue Suns mission taking out the fake signal and had DA on my widow and it seems to me having DA on widow was a waste I did better striping shields with inferno blast and headshot with AP on the widow or use my squad to strip shields and my smg then widow head shot and my DA is @ level 3 , I don't really see the benefit of lvl4.DA , Cryo Ammo the same , either 1pt or 4pt ammo power for squad.

This what the devs have explained a couple months ago:

Eric ****nan wrote...

Ammo Powers

Ammo powers make a single, separate damage call before the initial weapon damage call, and they use their own damage multipliers on resistances and health, as Christina mentions above.

Example:
If the initial regular weapon damage is 100 against a target with shields, then:
With Disruptor Ammo rank 1, you do an additional 20 damage to shields. If any of this damage passes through to health, it is negated (unless hitting a synthetic enemy) since this ammo power does nothing to health.
With Incendiary Ammo rank 1, you do no extra damage since this ammo type does nothing to shields.

Because the ammo power does the damage call before the weapon does its regular damage, using an ammo power against the wrong resistance type can totally negate its damage. For example, if you use Armor Piercing Ammo or Incendiary Ammo against an enemy that has a single point of energy shields, your ammo power's damage will have no effect, even though your weapon's regular damage will take down the shields afterward. Ammo powers do not make 2 damage calls.

If the ammo power does go through the first resistance, like Armor Piercing Ammo hitting armor, and there is damage left, it passes through to the next defense.

Additional effects like Disruptor Ammo's "stun robots" or "overheat weapons" only apply if the target no longer has resistances. So even if you are using Disruptor Ammo against energy shields, the shields must be completely off before the target can be stunned or overheated.

In your BS example, AP ammo has no effect against enemies with some shield left (you'll do equal damage with and without AP activated). This reduces the overall usefulness of ammo powers, especially the CC effects. They are only triggered when enemy has no defenses left, but at that point you can use biotic and tech powers (like Slam and NS) to CC - their effect is instant and last much longer on a very short cooldown.

[jasonsantanna]

So why do a lot of ppl max out disruptor ammo for the Infiltrator then beside for squad, then the only effect it has @ lvl4 is causing synthetics to explode, is that effect instant or you have to strip the synthetics defenses first, if this sounds crazy , its because I have never evolved DA pass lvl 3. Is it worth it I may retain powers seeing that I have not done Legions LM yet with my Inflitrator

[XCPTNL]

I max it out to Heavy Disruptor to have +60% against shields which is the most common protection and the Widows biggest weakness. So when I use Area Drain and the enemy has still shields left, the +60% damage on the Widow usually punches through that remaining shield and kills the target. Obviously for some enemies with strong shields +60% still isn't enough and for some it's too much after an Area Drain but I usually have good results with that build. Also I need at least Level 2 Disruptor to unlock Cryo and I really hate it when I have 7 points left over but can only invest 5 more in a Level 1 skill like Incinerate and then have 2 points left. I really hate this unlocking of skills and only being able to spend 1,2,3 or 4 points in ME2.

[jasonsantanna]

[quote]Korjyan wrote...

I max it out to Heavy Disruptor to have +60% against shields which is the most common protection and the Widows biggest weakness. So when I use Area Drain and the enemy has still shields left, the +60% damage on the Widow usually punches through that remaining shield and kills the target. Obviously for some enemies with strong shields +60% still isn't enough and for some it's too much after an Area Drain but I usually have good results with that build. Also I need at least Level 2 Disruptor to unlock Cryo and I really hate it when I have 7 points left over but can only invest 5 more in a Level 1 skill like Incinerate and then have 2 points left. I really hate this unlocking of skills and only being able to spend 1,2,3 or 4 points in ME2.[/quote)


I agree with you on that about the skill tree, I like the skill tree from ME1 ,do you use DA on your widow, I just can't see the benefits but I do use it with my smg , my thinking is that smg are strong against shields so with DA I thought it would rip though faster , then I follow up with hand cannon or widow to deal with armor and health with AP

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Heavy Disruptor Ammo isn't needed for the Infiltrator. As Boz pointed out, the damage bonus from even a maxed out ammo power is very minor, especially as the game progresses. What's desireable though, are the 'status effects' these powers impart on enemies. Because of this, Squad Disruptor Ammo is the better evolution to take.

The best shield breakers are active powers. For the Infiltrator, Incinerate can actually work very well, since it's an innate skill. Obviously there is also Energy Drain, but in my builds I like Incinerate for its versatility.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 17 mars 2011 - 05:42 .

[XCPTNL]

Yes, I use DA solely on the Widow because it doesn't have any multiplicator against shields. On my SMG I usually use Squad Cryo Ammo as the SMG is already good against shields and I want to freeze enemies, especially when I cloaked and got close. The Shuriken and the Tempest both do a pretty good job when I play like this. The shields are already down pretty fast with those weapons anyway so there's no need for DA on them except for the CC effect (Weapon Overheating) after the shields are gone.

Also I use shields to regenerate (Area Drain) my own shield, so stripping them even faster with the SMG is not always the best idea. Usually the Energy Drain takes away a good amount of shielding and then Cryo comes into play.  So Cryo has more benfits to me (not saying it is better, it's just better for my rather aggressive and "in-your-face" playstyle): frozen enemies don't shoot either - plus they don't run away (which can annoying if you are right in front of them), take more damage, and it looks cool when they break into little icy pieces. So I use Heavy Disruptor on the Widow, Squad Cryo for my team, my Shuriken/Tempest and on the Predator/Phalanx.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

 So based on this gameplay video: www.youtube.com/watch I would say it's a safe bet for that if a Mantis can 1S1K a collector drone on horizon with no cloak, maximized upgrades, only 2 points in Operative and 1 point in warp ammo, then a Widow can probably 1S1K most standard enemies without ammo powers or cloak as well.

Actually, IIRC from my Agent playthrough, the Mantis can 1S1K with the headshot upgrade at pretty much any point in the game without cloak. I'm pretty sure I had a level 2/3 disruptor ammo equipped on that run.

[jasonsantanna]

Korjyan wrote...

Yes, I use DA solely on the Widow because it doesn't have any multiplicator against shields. On my SMG I usually use Squad Cryo Ammo as the SMG is already good against shields and I want to freeze enemies, especially when I cloaked and got close. The Shuriken and the Tempest both do a pretty good job when I play like this. The shields are already down pretty fast with those weapons anyway so there's no need for DA on them except for the CC effect (Weapon Overheating) after the shields are gone.

Also I use shields to regenerate (Area Drain) my own shield, so stripping them even faster with the SMG is not always the best idea. Usually the Energy Drain takes away a good amount of shielding and then Cryo comes into play.  So Cryo has more benfits to me (not saying it is better, it's just better for my rather aggressive and "in-your-face" playstyle): frozen enemies don't shoot either - plus they don't run away (which can annoying if you are right in front of them), take more damage, and it looks cool when they break into little icy pieces. So I use Heavy Disruptor on the Widow, Squad Cryo for my team, my Shuriken/Tempest and on the Predator/Phalanx.

I'm going to try using cryo more for my Inf, I have it for squad and use it on husk missions but I tend to favor AP for widow for sum reason, I going to try your build with the smg , it just seems as though DA is better on an AR unless I'm dealing with synthetics but I'll try it again on the widow, I'm still feeling mty way thur the Inf. Still , but so far I'm breezing thur mission easier than with my soldier , cryo ammo I always pick for squad while I use a different ammo , except with my Vanguard I love freeing foes and then charge to shatter them that's the only time I deal with cryo really for Shep.
When I'm up close with my Inf. I tend to strip shields and follow up with a cloak then AP on my smg or Incinerator blast , but you got me thinking to use cryo less chance of them getting the drop on me if they're froze.

[RGFrog]

jasonsantanna wrote...

So why do a lot of ppl max out disruptor ammo for the Infiltrator then beside for squad, then the only effect it has @ lvl4 is causing synthetics to explode, is that effect instant or you have to strip the synthetics defenses first, if this sounds crazy , its because I have never evolved DA pass lvl 3. Is it worth it I may retain powers seeing that I have not done Legions LM yet with my Inflitrator

When I max DA on Inf. it's usually only for Insanity level play throughs. And it's rarely, if ever, used on my sniper rifle unless I'm running the Viper which is natively weak against shields.

I usually run the DA on my Locust or Tempest for even faster shield stripping. Especially on the locust which is less capable in this area than the tempest. Also, with the high rate of fire, you get through shields and non-squad DA at lvl 4 does more work than an SMG alone.

On snipers, other than viper, I'll use something else. I'm just sure to lob a fireball at them first so as to strip enough defenses that if the ammo power doesn't do anything, at least the bullet damage has the chance to 1s1k.

Stripping all or a little with the smg, switching to sniper, cloaking and killing is the best workflow for me.

[jasonsantanna]

RGFrog wrote...

jasonsantanna wrote...

So why do a lot of ppl max out disruptor ammo for the Infiltrator then beside for squad, then the only effect it has @ lvl4 is causing synthetics to explode, is that effect instant or you have to strip the synthetics defenses first, if this sounds crazy , its because I have never evolved DA pass lvl 3. Is it worth it I may retain powers seeing that I have not done Legions LM yet with my Inflitrator

When I max DA on Inf. it's usually only for Insanity level play throughs. And it's rarely, if ever, used on my sniper rifle unless I'm running the Viper which is natively weak against shields.

I usually run the DA on my Locust or Tempest for even faster shield stripping. Especially on the locust which is less capable in this area than the tempest. Also, with the high rate of fire, you get through shields and non-squad DA at lvl 4 does more work than an SMG alone.

On snipers, other than viper, I'll use something else. I'm just sure to lob a fireball at them first so as to strip enough defenses that if the ammo power doesn't do anything, at least the bullet damage has the chance to 1s1k.

Stripping all or a little with the smg, switching to sniper, cloaking and killing is the best workflow for me.

You have the same approach that I have with my Inf, if you read a few post above , my thinking is the same smg with DA for fast strip of shields , widow +AP to finish up and for close range I use smg with DA if they shielding or Ap if they have health+ armor or either use incinerator blast on shields with smg it seems to work great , but I may try using CA with CC on foe to freeze them, since another poster recommended it I usually let the squad deal with CA

[XCPTNL]

I played some levels (mostly with Blue Suns in it like Zaeed's Loyalty) again with different builds and SMG loadouts. Level 30 Infiltrator, 4/5 SR Upgrades, Visor, N7 Shoulders, Capacitor Plate, Stabilization Gauntlets, Stimulator Conduits and the following skills and SMG loadout:

Heavy Disruptor / Squad Cryo / LvL1 Incinerate / Tempest SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor
Heavy Disruptor / Squad Cryo / LvL1 Incinerate / Shuriken SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor
Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Tempest SMG using Disruptor / Widow using Disruptor
Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Shuriken SMG using Disruptor / Widow using Disruptor
Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Tempest SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor

Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Shuriken SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor

Some of my observations (obviously all are subjective and also my playstyle plays a role):
- I clear the levels faster with Squad Cryo, maybe because frozen enemies take more damage
- It's less risky for me with Squad Cryo because
a) I can instantly see which enemies are currently not participating in the battle and thus either focus on them for the damage boost or ignore them because I know I'm safe from harm for sure for a short while. I can't always tell if an enemy weapon is currently overheating though in the heat of battle and also they sometimes like to change positions then if they are not hiding behind cover. Both scenarios are usually less desirable than a frozen enemy.
my squadmates don't "steal"  too many enemy shields which I like to destroy with my Area Drain. With Squad Disruptor I had quite a few situations in which I really needed a Drain and there were no enemies with shields around but a lot without shields that were still shooting. So Area Drain usually strips a lot of shields and let's me play without taking too much cover and then leaves enemies vulnerable to the Cryo Ammo fire from 3 guns.
- Enemies with overheating weapons tend to hide behind cover more often. That can be annoying. On the other hand some frozen enemies are falling to the ground. That can be annoying as well if you were trying to kill that particular enemy but it can also be nice because they need to get up first after the effect wears off.
- I wasn't able to 1S1K (without Cloak) those Turian Blue Suns Troopers with full shields and health when I used Squad Disruptor on the Widow. They had a tiny amount of health left. It was hardly a scratch of health but nevertheless... they weren't dead. Maybe they'd be dead if I used the Kestrel Torso with additional +weapon damage but I already use that on quite a few other chars and don't like the look of it too much.
- The Shuriken seems to have a higher chance of freezing enemies than the Tempest. I really noticed when I was the only one using LvL1 Cryo. While using Squad Disruptor + LvL1 Cryo on the Tempest I didn't have good runs, with the Shuriken on the other hand they went better. But I like the Tempest, especially the sound and the clip size although
the Shuriken isn't that bad either and has higher damage per shot. Don't know if that factors in when determining if an enemy freezes or not.
- The shorter freeze duration of a LvL1 Cryo is obviously noticable but it's still not that bad. When we were all using Squad Disruptor it didn't go as smoothly in comparison.

My ideal build would look like this: 1 Disruptor Ammo / 10 Squad Cryo Ammo / 10 Assassination Cloak / 10 Incineration Blast / 0 AI Hacking / 10 Assassin / 10 Area Drain

Unfortunately this is not possible because you need at least LvL2 Disruptor to unlock Cryo and I really hate the devlopers for this. Of course I can just add 2 more points but I don't like it. So in the end I'll probably just stick with
this again: 10 Heavy Disruptor Ammo / 10 Squad Cryo Ammo / 10 Assassination Cloak / 1 Incinerate / 0 AI Hacking / 10 Assassin / 10 Area Drain

I'd really like to have a fully maxed Incineration Blast instead of Heavy Disruptor because I rarely need the Heavy Disruptor. It can come in handy though at times to still 1S1K some enemies with stronger shields that I won't soften up with the SMG or the Energy Drain first but those situations are rare and I'd benefit from a LvL10 Incineration Blast much more. I don't agree with some people who say Heavy Disruptor is useless though. I agree however that you should always take Squad Disruptor over Heavy if you don't use Squad Cryo (or any other Squad Ammo for that matter). But if you are using Squad Cryo there's really no need for Squad Disruptor. Even the Geth levels like Haestrom are easier with 2 Area Overloads + Area Drain and Squad Cryo than with Squad Disruptor as far as my experience goes.

[jasonsantanna]

Korjyan wrote...

I played some levels (mostly with Blue Suns in it like Zaeed's Loyalty) again with different builds and SMG loadouts. Level 30 Infiltrator, 4/5 SR Upgrades, Visor, N7 Shoulders, Capacitor Plate, Stabilization Gauntlets, Stimulator Conduits and the following skills and SMG loadout:

Heavy Disruptor / Squad Cryo / LvL1 Incinerate / Tempest SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor
Heavy Disruptor / Squad Cryo / LvL1 Incinerate / Shuriken SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor
Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Tempest SMG using Disruptor / Widow using Disruptor
Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Shuriken SMG using Disruptor / Widow using Disruptor
Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Tempest SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor

Squad Disruptor / LvL1 Cryo / Incineration Blast / Shuriken SMG using Cryo / Widow using Disruptor

Some of my observations (obviously all are subjective and also my playstyle plays a role):
- I clear the levels faster with Squad Cryo, maybe because frozen enemies take more damage
- It's less risky for me with Squad Cryo because
a) I can instantly see which enemies are currently not participating in the battle and thus either focus on them for the damage boost or ignore them because I know I'm safe from harm for sure for a short while. I can't always tell if an enemy weapon is currently overheating though in the heat of battle and also they sometimes like to change positions then if they are not hiding behind cover. Both scenarios are usually less desirable than a frozen enemy.
my squadmates don't "steal"  too many enemy shields which I like to destroy with my Area Drain. With Squad Disruptor I had quite a few situations in which I really needed a Drain and there were no enemies with shields around but a lot without shields that were still shooting. So Area Drain usually strips a lot of shields and let's me play without taking too much cover and then leaves enemies vulnerable to the Cryo Ammo fire from 3 guns.
- Enemies with overheating weapons tend to hide behind cover more often. That can be annoying. On the other hand some frozen enemies are falling to the ground. That can be annoying as well if you were trying to kill that particular enemy but it can also be nice because they need to get up first after the effect wears off.
- I wasn't able to 1S1K (without Cloak) those Turian Blue Suns Troopers with full shields and health when I used Squad Disruptor on the Widow. They had a tiny amount of health left. It was hardly a scratch of health but nevertheless... they weren't dead. Maybe they'd be dead if I used the Kestrel Torso with additional +weapon damage but I already use that on quite a few other chars and don't like the look of it too much.
- The Shuriken seems to have a higher chance of freezing enemies than the Tempest. I really noticed when I was the only one using LvL1 Cryo. While using Squad Disruptor + LvL1 Cryo on the Tempest I didn't have good runs, with the Shuriken on the other hand they went better. But I like the Tempest, especially the sound and the clip size although
the Shuriken isn't that bad either and has higher damage per shot. Don't know if that factors in when determining if an enemy freezes or not.
- The shorter freeze duration of a LvL1 Cryo is obviously noticable but it's still not that bad. When we were all using Squad Disruptor it didn't go as smoothly in comparison.

My ideal build would look like this: 1 Disruptor Ammo / 10 Squad Cryo Ammo / 10 Assassination Cloak / 10 Incineration Blast / 0 AI Hacking / 10 Assassin / 10 Area Drain

Unfortunately this is not possible because you need at least LvL2 Disruptor to unlock Cryo and I really hate the devlopers for this. Of course I can just add 2 more points but I don't like it. So in the end I'll probably just stick with
this again: 10 Heavy Disruptor Ammo / 10 Squad Cryo Ammo / 10 Assassination Cloak / 1 Incinerate / 0 AI Hacking / 10 Assassin / 10 Area Drain

I'd really like to have a fully maxed Incineration Blast instead of Heavy Disruptor because I rarely need the Heavy Disruptor. It can come in handy though at times to still 1S1K some enemies with stronger shields that I won't soften up with the SMG or the Energy Drain first but those situations are rare and I'd benefit from a LvL10 Incineration Blast much more. I don't agree with some people who say Heavy Disruptor is useless though. I agree however that you should always take Squad Disruptor over Heavy if you don't use Squad Cryo (or any other Squad Ammo for that matter). But if you are using Squad Cryo there's really no need for Squad Disruptor. Even the Geth levels like Haestrom are easier with 2 Area Overloads + Area Drain and Squad Cryo than with Squad Disruptor as far as my experience goes.

So far my Infiltrator looks like this:
3-Disruptor Ammo
4-Cryo Ammo squad
4-Incinerator Blast
4-Assassination Cloak
4-Assassin
1-AI
2-AP
So far its worked out great and if I need additional DA for squad like on Tali's RM , I maxed it out for squad thur Zaeed and bring a squadie that has overload ,for Inc.blast along with DA strips shields pretty good plus I save on ammo using Inc.blast to help remove shields and armor, I kick Harbingers butt with Inc.blast , there were times when he was right in my face the Inc.blast with handcannon or smg with AP did work on him.     

I'm one of those ppl who never max out DA, for me lvl3 is enough it gives you weapon overheat, disrupt shields and overloads synthetics, lvl4 synthetics explored, some wrote its more of the animation effect that's cool to see so I use Zaeed's for squads , I don't know I could be wrong , I'm still new to the Infiltrator class

[XCPTNL]

Well, the funny thing is: I have played a lot of Infiltrators already and I still discover interesting things about them. I did some more testing and I guess I'll give Squad Disruptor for my Team and the Widow a try for a few more levels, using Level 1 Cryo for myself on the SMG and the Heavy Pistol and maxing out Incinerate to Incineration Blast.

I just took Miranda with me and the Squad +damage she provides helped me oneshot those Turian Blue Suns Trooper without cloak now using the Squad Disruptor Ammo. For now I have to stop though, it's already 5 a.m. over here and I have a lot of work to do "tomorrow", so I should probably catch some sleep now and stop testing and playing the same levels over and over again ^^

[EffectedByTheMasses]

jasonsantanna wrote...

So far my Infiltrator looks like this:
3-Disruptor Ammo
4-Cryo Ammo squad
4-Incinerator Blast
4-Assassination Cloak
4-Assassin
1-AI
2-AP
So far its worked out great and if I need additional DA for squad like on Tali's RM , I maxed it out for squad thur Zaeed and bring a squadie that has overload ,for Inc.blast along with DA strips shields pretty good plus I save on ammo using Inc.blast to help remove shields and armor, I kick Harbingers butt with Inc.blast , there were times when he was right in my face the Inc.blast with handcannon or smg with AP did work on him.     

I'm one of those ppl who never max out DA, for me lvl3 is enough it gives you weapon overheat, disrupt shields and overloads synthetics, lvl4 synthetics explored, some wrote its more of the animation effect that's cool to see so I use Zaeed's for squads , I don't know I could be wrong , I'm still new to the Infiltrator class

i really should know this, but just checking: when you say AP you mean AP ammo right? because I stared at that for a good minute being like, 'huh?' Mhm.

On a side note, I started my sniper infiltrator run just now, and chose Geth Shield Boost as my bonus power of all things. It's actually quite fun. Activate GSB, camp/snipe and wait for cooldown, cloak, flank and spray into multiple enemies' faces, and then run back to cover while everyone shoots me and wonders why I don't die. It's quite delightful to do from an roleplaying perspective, it looks cool and fits with the 'untouchable' image that I want my assassin to have, and the 10% damage bonus for Improved GSB, I think, will help slightly. The rest of my build is standard, Heavy DA, Squad Cryo Ammo, Assassination Cloak, Assassin.

[XCPTNL]

I used Geth Shield Boost on the Infiltrator class as well once but usually as a 1point emergency skill. The cooldown is just a killer for me to make use of it as a regular skill. That's why I love Area Drain so much: it takes down enemy shields and regenerates my own but only has half the cooldown time.