252 réponses à ce sujet

[eye basher]

i'll ask a question here blood magic works with blood right so the more powerful the spell the more blood you need.

here is the question: If you were a blood mage would you bleed yourself dry to use blood magic there for killing yourself or killing someone else and using theres?

[Everwarden]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

"I don't agree with you thus are a troll!!!!111oneoneone"

Grow up kid not everyone going to agree with you.

I know I shouldn't feed trolls, but sometimes one has to indulge...

It's not a matter of agree or disagree. Certain things are open to differing opinions (vanilla vs. chocolate), and certain things are objectively true or false. You claimed that Jowan killed dozens of people, this is objectively false. Jowan never directly killed one person. He knocked some templars and an old fart down and ran. This is a pillar of your argument, you're wrong, and you still insist you're right. Oh, and you call people who are clearly better at articulating their points than you "kid".

Obvious trolling is obvious. And effective, since I felt compelled to reply. 

[Doc Faust]

eye basher wrote...

i'll ask a question here blood magic works with blood right so the more powerful the spell the more blood you need.

here is the question: If you were a blood mage would you bleed yourself dry to use blood magic there for killing yourself or killing someone else and using theres?

This is one of the explicit advantages of blood magic: it allows a mage to extend their spellcasting abilities beyond their normal mana-cap, first by using their own blood, and then by branching out to the blood of other sapients.

The later use is, of course, inherently evil. And one of the reasons the blood magic is so dangerous and unhealthy. Still doesn't affect personally in and of itself, though.

Modifié par Doc Faust, 13 mars 2011 - 07:59 .

[VettoRyouzou]

Doc Faust wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

3. He did not kill dozens of anybody. There were THEE Templars in that cutscene. THREE. And the BOTH OF THEM GOT UP AGAIN. For ****'s sake, IRVING got back up after Jowan blood magiced him. An 80 year old man survived the spell. He was pulling his ****ing punches.

Do not LIE to make your point while pretending academic discourse. It pisses me off.

He killed other who had been chasing him before being capture and ya a 80 year old man lived threw his posioniong.. it only took ya know nothing major to save his life just a little FING Andraste ashes to save his life so don't sit there and think it wasn't that bad of a illness when it took the ashes of a legend to save his life.

blood magic evil face it kid.

I was talking about Irving. Not Arl Redcliff.

The First Enchanter. He's in the cutscene where Jowan escapes the tower, and survies being showered in Jowan-blood, just like Gregor and the two templars he brought with him. Jowan escaped the tower without killing anyone, because Jowan, while a bit of a idiot and a dork, isn't a bad person.

Nowhere in the game does it mention Jowan killing other Templars.

I don't remember the poison being any kind of blood magic. It was just a poison Logain gave him.

Fine I'll give you jown now let see.. one Mage that barley had any freedom before being caught and watched closely as he was even in the company of the Erl..compared.. to basically the whole ending of DA2, Ya blood mages are so "nice". I wonder how many sick they can heal with that blood magic.. oh wait.. Well mabye they can feed.. oh wait not there to I know they can Defend people by summoning creature with no malice intent... oh wait there to.

[Arppis]

Mages were pushed to desperation. So they did all they could to fight back.

[VettoRyouzou]

Everwarden wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

"I don't agree with you thus are a troll!!!!111oneoneone"

Grow up kid not everyone going to agree with you.

I know I shouldn't feed trolls, but sometimes one has to indulge...

It's not a matter of agree or disagree. Certain things are open to differing opinions (vanilla vs. chocolate), and certain things are objectively true or false. You claimed that Jowan killed dozens of people, this is objectively false. Jowan never directly killed one person. He knocked some templars and an old fart down and ran. This is a pillar of your argument, you're wrong, and you still insist you're right. Oh, and you call people who are clearly better at articulating their points than you "kid".

Obvious trolling is obvious. And effective, since I felt compelled to reply. 

Only troll I see here is you kid.

[Doc Faust]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

3. He did not kill dozens of anybody. There were THEE Templars in that cutscene. THREE. And the BOTH OF THEM GOT UP AGAIN. For ****'s sake, IRVING got back up after Jowan blood magiced him. An 80 year old man survived the spell. He was pulling his ****ing punches.

Do not LIE to make your point while pretending academic discourse. It pisses me off.

He killed other who had been chasing him before being capture and ya a 80 year old man lived threw his posioniong.. it only took ya know nothing major to save his life just a little FING Andraste ashes to save his life so don't sit there and think it wasn't that bad of a illness when it took the ashes of a legend to save his life.

blood magic evil face it kid.

I was talking about Irving. Not Arl Redcliff.

The First Enchanter. He's in the cutscene where Jowan escapes the tower, and survies being showered in Jowan-blood, just like Gregor and the two templars he brought with him. Jowan escaped the tower without killing anyone, because Jowan, while a bit of a idiot and a dork, isn't a bad person.

Nowhere in the game does it mention Jowan killing other Templars.

I don't remember the poison being any kind of blood magic. It was just a poison Logain gave him.

Fine I'll give you jown now let see.. one Mage that barley had any freedom before being caught and watched closely as he was even in the company of the Erl..compared.. to basically the whole ending of DA2, Ya blood mages are so "nice". I wonder how many sick they can heal with that blood magic.. oh wait.. Well mabye they can feed.. oh wait not there to I know they can Defend people by summoning creature with no malice intent... oh wait there to.

As I have constantly articulated: BLOOD MAGIC IS DANGEROUS. ITS USE SHOULD BE RESTRICTED! The idea that JUST having the ability to use it, however, MAKES one evil is absolutely absurd. It has a very limited range of exclusive constructive uses (that is, uses that you couldn't accomplish with normal magic and enough Lyrium) and, as such, is difficult to use for good purposes. It does not alter one's personality or moral compass.

Think of it like atomic power. You don't give that **** to everyone, because **** no. Radioactive power is not evil, and having it doesn't make one so.

[Everwarden]

MortalEngines wrote...

It's far more sinster and corruptable than any other magic. No only magic has the ability to directly call demons through the fade on your behalf. Even if you could learn blood magic from a book, eventually constant contact with the fade would cause you to lose yourself.

Like I've said, Merril is a prime example. As is Jowan.

Any mage can call a demon through the fade at will, it doesn't require blood magic. That doesn't make it a good idea, mind, just pointing that out.

I don't see how, if one learned blood magic from a book, one would be compelled to be in 'constant contact' with the fade. Blood magic -can- be used to summon demons, but that doesn't mean it has to be. At the most basic level as descibed in lore, blood magic just allows you to turn your blood into a secondary spell fuel and opens up a few new spell options (control the blood of others, mind control). 

[MortalEngines]

eye basher wrote...

i'll ask a question here blood magic works with blood right so the more powerful the spell the more blood you need.

here is the question: If you were a blood mage would you bleed yourself dry to use blood magic there for killing yourself or killing someone else and using theres?

A blood mage would always use someone else of course. Be defination blood magic is selfish, normal magic is fine, incorruptable, powerful. Those who turn to blood magic only do so FOR MORE POWER, there is no other reason. Some one is seeking more power will not endanger their life completely do so.

Everwarden wrote...
Any mage can call a demon through the fade at will, it doesn't require blood magic. That doesn't make it a good idea, mind, just pointing that out.

I don't see how, if one learned blood magic from a book, one would be compelled to be in 'constant contact' with the fade. Blood magic -can- be used to summon demons, but that doesn't mean it has to be. At the most basic level as descibed in lore, blood magic just allows you to turn your blood into a secondary spell fuel and opens up a few new spell options (control the blood of others, mind control). 

What? I'm pretty sure you can't use any magic to pull demons through the veil, unless it very weak. Give me an example of a mage summoning demons without being a blood mage.

Like the Wiki says "Blood magic[/b] is a form of magic that uses the power of life to cast spells." 

You can't be always using your Life force, eventually you'll need to use others. And blood magic is most powerful when having contact with the fade as it amplifies your powers.

Modifié par MortalEngines, 13 mars 2011 - 08:10 .

[hotiedethknt]

yah this 2nd run through I am a mage and I am thinking of siding with the damn Templers also.. Well atleast I get to see that.

[Doc Faust]

Everwarden wrote...

MortalEngines wrote...

It's far more sinster and corruptable than any other magic. No only magic has the ability to directly call demons through the fade on your behalf. Even if you could learn blood magic from a book, eventually constant contact with the fade would cause you to lose yourself.

Like I've said, Merril is a prime example. As is Jowan.

Any mage can call a demon through the fade at will, it doesn't require blood magic. That doesn't make it a good idea, mind, just pointing that out.

I don't see how, if one learned blood magic from a book, one would be compelled to be in 'constant contact' with the fade. Blood magic -can- be used to summon demons, but that doesn't mean it has to be. At the most basic level as descibed in lore, blood magic just allows you to turn your blood into a secondary spell fuel and opens up a few new spell options (control the blood of others, mind control). 

Unless you're talking about Abominations, the first is not actually true. One of Blood Magic's exclusive applications is rending the veil and allowing demons to come through with their own "bodies" or to possess bodies other than the mage's own.

I would, however, point out that this could, theoretically, be used just as readily to bring a positive fade spirit through the veil, were one inclined to do so. I like immagine this is where the Ryming Tree came from, and there is no way to argue that the Ryming Tree is a bad thing. He is awesome.

Almost as awesome as Orsino's awesome dragon staff. Almost.

Modifié par Doc Faust, 13 mars 2011 - 08:10 .

[VettoRyouzou]

Doc Faust wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

3. He did not kill dozens of anybody. There were THEE Templars in that cutscene. THREE. And the BOTH OF THEM GOT UP AGAIN. For ****'s sake, IRVING got back up after Jowan blood magiced him. An 80 year old man survived the spell. He was pulling his ****ing punches.

Do not LIE to make your point while pretending academic discourse. It pisses me off.

He killed other who had been chasing him before being capture and ya a 80 year old man lived threw his posioniong.. it only took ya know nothing major to save his life just a little FING Andraste ashes to save his life so don't sit there and think it wasn't that bad of a illness when it took the ashes of a legend to save his life.

blood magic evil face it kid.

I was talking about Irving. Not Arl Redcliff.

The First Enchanter. He's in the cutscene where Jowan escapes the tower, and survies being showered in Jowan-blood, just like Gregor and the two templars he brought with him. Jowan escaped the tower without killing anyone, because Jowan, while a bit of a idiot and a dork, isn't a bad person.

Nowhere in the game does it mention Jowan killing other Templars.

I don't remember the poison being any kind of blood magic. It was just a poison Logain gave him.

Fine I'll give you jown now let see.. one Mage that barley had any freedom before being caught and watched closely as he was even in the company of the Erl..compared.. to basically the whole ending of DA2, Ya blood mages are so "nice". I wonder how many sick they can heal with that blood magic.. oh wait.. Well mabye they can feed.. oh wait not there to I know they can Defend people by summoning creature with no malice intent... oh wait there to.

As I have constantly articulated: BLOOD MAGIC IS DANGEROUS. ITS USE SHOULD BE RESTRICTED! The idea that JUST having the ability to use it, however, MAKES one evil is absolutely absurd. It has a very limited range of exclusive constructive uses (that is, uses that you couldn't accomplish with normal magic and enough Lyrium) and, as such, is difficult to use for good purposes. It does not alter one's personality or moral compass.

Think of it like atomic power. You don't give that **** to everyone, because **** no. Radioactive power is not evil, and having it doesn't make one so.

And as I said this is like saying that a AK-47 isn't evil till some nut ball pulls the trigger, Blood magic is for one thing and one thing only killing just like a AK-47 no "good" comes from it and if it take a man unleashing in way shown in DA to "live" even if you see some holding back there nothing stopping them from doing it again.

The fact is if you have the power just like if you have a gun there all way temptation to use it.

The fact is were never going to agree here so might as well call agree to disagree.

[Everwarden]

Doc Faust wrote...

Unless you're talking about Abominations, the first is not actually true. One of Blood Magic's exclusive applications is rending the veil and allowing demons to come through with their own "bodies" or to possess bodies other than the mage's own.

I was talking about abominations. Hence it being a really bad idea. 

Or at least usually a bad idea. I wonder if any mage has actually screened a bunch of demons for the job...

"I'm sorry, Mr. Rage Demon. I'm not going to give my mortal shell over to someone so low on the demon chain. Come back when you get to the desire or pride level of power, alright? Thanks for applying, though." 

[crapmonster13]

The blood magic thing didn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. In the end, I didn't regret at all siding with mages as I still saw them as the victims. Them resorting to blood magic only amplified that.

I think if anything it was suppose to be allegorical of how real history has played out. Whether its so called terrorist groups or revolutionary forces, they all play out similarly. You get a usually group of people unhappy with the status quo who rise up.

Often these groups are not unjustified in their feelings yet resort to monstrous even terrifying tactics to achieve their goals. Ultimately, making it quite hard to fully sympathize with them. This is prettymuch true for everything from the formation an early decades of the CCP to the French Revolution.

[Doc Faust]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

3. He did not kill dozens of anybody. There were THEE Templars in that cutscene. THREE. And the BOTH OF THEM GOT UP AGAIN. For ****'s sake, IRVING got back up after Jowan blood magiced him. An 80 year old man survived the spell. He was pulling his ****ing punches.

Do not LIE to make your point while pretending academic discourse. It pisses me off.

He killed other who had been chasing him before being capture and ya a 80 year old man lived threw his posioniong.. it only took ya know nothing major to save his life just a little FING Andraste ashes to save his life so don't sit there and think it wasn't that bad of a illness when it took the ashes of a legend to save his life.

blood magic evil face it kid.

I was talking about Irving. Not Arl Redcliff.

The First Enchanter. He's in the cutscene where Jowan escapes the tower, and survies being showered in Jowan-blood, just like Gregor and the two templars he brought with him. Jowan escaped the tower without killing anyone, because Jowan, while a bit of a idiot and a dork, isn't a bad person.

Nowhere in the game does it mention Jowan killing other Templars.

I don't remember the poison being any kind of blood magic. It was just a poison Logain gave him.

Fine I'll give you jown now let see.. one Mage that barley had any freedom before being caught and watched closely as he was even in the company of the Erl..compared.. to basically the whole ending of DA2, Ya blood mages are so "nice". I wonder how many sick they can heal with that blood magic.. oh wait.. Well mabye they can feed.. oh wait not there to I know they can Defend people by summoning creature with no malice intent... oh wait there to.

As I have constantly articulated: BLOOD MAGIC IS DANGEROUS. ITS USE SHOULD BE RESTRICTED! The idea that JUST having the ability to use it, however, MAKES one evil is absolutely absurd. It has a very limited range of exclusive constructive uses (that is, uses that you couldn't accomplish with normal magic and enough Lyrium) and, as such, is difficult to use for good purposes. It does not alter one's personality or moral compass.

Think of it like atomic power. You don't give that **** to everyone, because **** no. Radioactive power is not evil, and having it doesn't make one so.

And as I said this is like saying that a AK-47 isn't evil till some nut ball pulls the trigger, Blood magic is for one thing and one thing only killing just like a AK-47 no "good" comes from it and if it take a man unleashing in way shown in DA to "live" even if you see some holding back there nothing stopping them from doing it again.

The fact is if you have the power just like if you have a gun there all way temptation to use it.

The fact is were never going to agree here so might as well call agree to disagree.

No, actually, its like saying that holding an AK-47 doesn't twist your mind somehow and make you into a mass-murdering lunatic. It doesn't. End of story.

But yes, I tire of arguing with you. Agree to Disagree. Like Rival!Fenris.

I'm watching you for when the Templars come for me. O.< 

Modifié par Doc Faust, 13 mars 2011 - 08:13 .

[Doc Faust]

Everwarden wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

Unless you're talking about Abominations, the first is not actually true. One of Blood Magic's exclusive applications is rending the veil and allowing demons to come through with their own "bodies" or to possess bodies other than the mage's own.

I was talking about abominations. Hence it being a really bad idea. 

Or at least usually a bad idea. I wonder if any mage has actually screened a bunch of demons for the job...

"I'm sorry, Mr. Rage Demon. I'm not going to give my mortal shell over to someone so low on the demon chain. Come back when you get to the desire or pride level of power, alright? Thanks for applying, though." 

I want to play this game. Way more than I should.

Of course, I was kinda hoping the Pride demon from your Harrowing in DA:O would come back later and act as a kind of "evil mentor" archtype, so I guess I'm just weird like that.

[VettoRyouzou]

Doc Faust wrote...


No, actually, its like saying that holding an AK-47 doesn't twist your mind somehow and make you into a mass-murdering lunatic. It doesn't. End of story.

But yes, I tire of arguing with you. Agree to Disagree. Like Rival!Fenris.

I'm watching you for when the Templars come for me. O.< 

I'm actually pro mage just not pro blood magic for many reason one of them simple being "I have the power to bend the elements and heal the sick! but... I'd rather risk my neck and try out a magic that only a little better".

I just don't see the ohh and ahh of it all, Thou I do agree with templar on some point thou the best way for peace is to put Mages in the templar ranks to make it what it should be which is there here for your own safely and education not here to beat you for being born.

[namedforthemoon]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

It would make more sense to side with the mages if Orsino didn't use blood magic and didn't conspire to kill your mother.

Orsino did WHAT?! I didn't know he was involved with that...

[Kenshen]

Sonris89 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

There are mages we meet who don't resort to blood magic or become abominations. We have the female mage we meet during Anders' quest who didn't use blood magic. We have the mages who are fighting templars as we head to the Gallows Prison. We have the Orlesian mage who only wants to be with a woman for the first time. I don't think it's cut and dry, because both sides have bad elements to them, but the Chantry is enslaving mages.

Maybe but if the templars rape or kill a mage... its certainly alot better then a bunch of mages filling the streets with abominations shades and demons... I mean whats worse? Forcing some people to be tranquil or a few bad cops or letting mages tear rifts in the veil to summon pride demons for the lols in the street.  The templars I encountered never did anything as evil save for Alric and Meredith and Meredeth was possed by a cursed lyrium sword...

Then why keep mages alive at all?  Orsino even said it himself why don't they just drown them or something instead of letting them live a life of imprisionment.  And that is why we now have a war on our hands.

[Doc Faust]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

It would make more sense to side with the mages if Orsino didn't use blood magic and didn't conspire to kill your mother.

Orsino did WHAT?! I didn't know he was involved with that...

I don't think he *conspired* exactally. He did fund the loon's research, though. I doubt he knew exactally what he was doing.

[Doc Faust]

aryon69 wrote...

Sonris89 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

There are mages we meet who don't resort to blood magic or become abominations. We have the female mage we meet during Anders' quest who didn't use blood magic. We have the mages who are fighting templars as we head to the Gallows Prison. We have the Orlesian mage who only wants to be with a woman for the first time. I don't think it's cut and dry, because both sides have bad elements to them, but the Chantry is enslaving mages.

Maybe but if the templars rape or kill a mage... its certainly alot better then a bunch of mages filling the streets with abominations shades and demons... I mean whats worse? Forcing some people to be tranquil or a few bad cops or letting mages tear rifts in the veil to summon pride demons for the lols in the street.  The templars I encountered never did anything as evil save for Alric and Meredith and Meredeth was possed by a cursed lyrium sword...

Then why keep mages alive at all?  Orsino even said it himself why don't they just drown them or something instead of letting them live a life of imprisionment.  And that is why we now have a war on our hands.

"Why don't they just drown us at birth? Why give us the illusion of hope..."

That was one of the most gut wrenchingly sad lines in the entire game, for me. Poor Orsino.

[Everwarden]

Doc Faust wrote...

"Why don't they just drown us at birth? Why give us the illusion of hope..."

That was one of the most gut wrenchingly sad lines in the entire game, for me. Poor Orsino.

Me too. 

I really sympathized with the man, and then Bioware ruined the moment with a completely contrived, utterly unnecessary and ridiculous boss fight just for the 'zomg cool!' factor. 

[MortalEngines]

Doc Faust wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

It would make more sense to side with the mages if Orsino didn't use blood magic and didn't conspire to kill your mother.

Orsino did WHAT?! I didn't know he was involved with that...

I don't think he *conspired* exactally. He did fund the loon's research, though. I doubt he knew exactally what he was doing.

He was also protecting him from capture by templars/city guard.

[Doc Faust]

Everwarden wrote...

Doc Faust wrote...

"Why don't they just drown us at birth? Why give us the illusion of hope..."

That was one of the most gut wrenchingly sad lines in the entire game, for me. Poor Orsino.

Me too. 

I really sympathized with the man, and then Bioware ruined the moment with a completely contrived, utterly unnecessary and ridiculous boss fight just for the 'zomg cool!' factor. 

And we didn't even get his awesome dragon staff.

[PantheraOnca]

1- AK-47s are not evil. Shooting people in cold blood is. By the same rational, blood magic isn't evil, mind controlling or exploding them is.

2- Blood magic does not only do mind control and blood explosion/control. You can use blood to cast fireball or heal.

3- The first enchanter did use his own blood (and not yours or your party's btw) to do his thing at the end there, disproving whoever said that a blood mage would never use his own blood.

4- Kid vetto, child son youngster whippersnapper mr. arrogant annoying downtalker: stop being rude please. Kid. Child. Sonny boy.

As with most problems, the answer is in education and regulation, not oppression, slavery, or forced medical procedures.