252 réponses à ce sujet

[Creylon]

I sided with the mages(i played a mage too) but i was so pissed at Anders so i killed him with my little Macgyver knife.

[Snake321]

I thought the reason for so many blood mages was obvious? The Templars was pushing the mages so hard that they would seek increasingly desperate measures to combat them.

And yeah the ending with Orsino was a complete and utter fail, there was that bit where it looked like he was in the thralls of despair, I expected Hawke or maybe Bethany to steady his resolve, so they could push out, or him to kill himself in the flurry of emotions. But to summon blood magic was just so out of character, I mean hell Hawke was winning the battle!!

As for blood magic itself... Its a dangerous art, yet I don't think every mage should be oppressed for it, or its practice outlawed even. A mage should be struck down once he has actually done something wrong, so if he summoned a demon and then killed someone there should measures taken to take him down. Just as if a normal human took a blade and slaughtered everyone in a house.

Would you outlaw the blade? Would you make someone pass a test to see if they could control themselves from murdering or attacking a man who he found in bed with his wife?

Innocent until proven guilty I say...

[UNOSHI]

LifeBlood wrote...

"Mike, we have written a list of all noteworthy mage characters in the game on this inkboard. We need to decide which of these will be blood mages. Do you have any suggestions?"
Mike Laidlaw stares resolutely at the inkboard for a few seconds, stands up, and bodyslams the board to the floor.
"Good choice, sir."

this made me lol'd lol....  no but really whaaat in the bloody name? damn Orsino

[UNOSHI]

Snake321 wrote...

I thought the reason for so many blood mages was obvious? The Templars was pushing the mages so hard that they would seek increasingly desperate measures to combat them.

And yeah the ending with Orsino was a complete and utter fail, there was that bit where it looked like he was in the thralls of despair, I expected Hawke or maybe Bethany to steady his resolve, so they could push out, or him to kill himself in the flurry of emotions. But to summon blood magic was just so out of character, I mean hell Hawke was winning the battle!!

As for blood magic itself... Its a dangerous art, yet I don't think every mage should be oppressed for it, or its practice outlawed even. A mage should be struck down once he has actually done something wrong, so if he summoned a demon and then killed someone there should measures taken to take him down. Just as if a normal human took a blade and slaughtered everyone in a house.

Would you outlaw the blade? Would you make someone pass a test to see if they could control themselves from murdering or attacking a man who he found in bed with his wife?

Innocent until proven guilty I say...

cannot agree more... the Orison thing was a fail. i hope with all the dlc in the making it would be a lot different and stuff

[ThatDancingTurian]

I thought that was ridiculous. I understand it was done out of desperation, but if every single mage will turn to blood magic when desperate enough, then surely they'll find other reasons to turn to it once they're free. Even those few mages that I let escape during Thrask's quest would eventually come back to be blood mages. Even Feynriel eventually went to Tevinter, where blood magic is encouraged and mages are the oppressors. My mage Hawke tried her hardest to prove mages deserved to be trusted with their powers and at every turn, every mage betrayed that trust.

I think some people who rationalize blood magic forget that for it to work you are literally making a deal with the devil each time you use it. Even if you make the argument that there's nothing 'evil' about bargaining with demonic forces, being a maleficar is at least a sure sign of weakness of character and susceptibility to demon influence, and thus a warning of things to come. It's playing with fire and expecting not to get burned.

My mage hated blood mages, they hurt her cause just as much as Anders did. She wants a world where mages can be free and no one has to fear them, and blood mages can't exist in that world.

[Sinvx]

Kirkwall is an extreme case of Mage oppression then say Ferelden was... So more mages are willing to embrace blood magic if it means escape.

[UNOSHI]

BUT to be honest. we cant say we didnt seen it coming... i mean look at the trailer.. hawke is a blood mage in there for crying out loud..... how could we been so blind

Modifié par UNOSHI, 14 mars 2011 - 03:08 .

[Nimander]

I don't think Blood Magic is inherently evil. You -can- learn it from books and notes, not /just/ demons. Also note that there were other ways to control minds in DA:O, and even DA2 has things where you project fears into their minds and so on. Blood Magic is about -power-, and those who are drawn to power are more likely to seek it, so of course Blood Mages are more likely to be evil. Just like people wanting power pursue other things like weapons and such iRL. Demons... as far as we know that's Blood Magic specific, but Lyrium /can/ do things like send mages into the Fade, so who knows. Blood Magic probably makes it far /easier/.

As for the number of Blood Mages and abominations, as I've said in another thread, we're /said/ why in a Codex: Kirkwall has a really thin 'barrier' to the Fade. Which means demons can reach through /far/ more easily. This plus the Templars going crazy and putting mages in hell means far more Blood Mages and Abominations. Mages in extreme stress in Kirkwall can apparently be possessed by demons sans Blood Magic. I mean heck, they can infuse /non-mages/ in Kirkwall, I don't see this as a big jump.

What I do dislike is the lack of good mages other than Hawke (if he's a mage) and Bethany, that we see. Anders becomes a terrorist, Orsino goes into Blood Magic and was at the very least protecting Quentin, and so on. I'd have liked a lot more pivotal mages who were at least somewhat positive.

[HolyJellyfish]

Its not true. The only mages that are blood mages are the ones who survived the initial attack. I imagine those who did not have access to lyrium, didn't have demon help, and were overall weak in comparison died very, very, very quickly.

I'd wager the minority of the circle were actually Blood Mages / Abominations. The majority were killed off by the Templars. That's what Templars are trained to do. To kill off mages with ease. The only ones that provide any challenge are Blood Mages & Abominations.

[Dave of Canada]

Sinvx wrote...

Kirkwall is an extreme case of Mage oppression then say Ferelden was... So more mages are willing to embrace blood magic if it means escape.

Quite a few were free and still used it, hell the "Kirkwall Killer" wasn't being actively hunted and he was probably one of the most screwed up mages in that department. He even recieved stuff from First Enchanter Orsino to motivate him.

[HolyJellyfish]

Nimander wrote...

I don't think Blood Magic is inherently evil. You -can- learn it from books and notes, not /just/ demons. Also note that there were other ways to control minds in DA:O, and even DA2 has things where you project fears into their minds and so on. Blood Magic is about -power-, and those who are drawn to power are more likely to seek it, so of course Blood Mages are more likely to be evil. Just like people wanting power pursue other things like weapons and such iRL. Demons... as far as we know that's Blood Magic specific, but Lyrium /can/ do things like send mages into the Fade, so who knows. Blood Magic probably makes it far /easier/.

As for the number of Blood Mages and abominations, as I've said in another thread, we're /said/ why in a Codex: Kirkwall has a really thin 'barrier' to the Fade. Which means demons can reach through /far/ more easily. This plus the Templars going crazy and putting mages in hell means far more Blood Mages and Abominations. Mages in extreme stress in Kirkwall can apparently be possessed by demons sans Blood Magic. I mean heck, they can infuse /non-mages/ in Kirkwall, I don't see this as a big jump.

What I do dislike is the lack of good mages other than Hawke (if he's a mage) and Bethany, that we see. Anders becomes a terrorist, Orsino goes into Blood Magic and was at the very least protecting Quentin, and so on. I'd have liked a lot more pivotal mages who were at least somewhat positive.

Blood magic is typically evil because the only individuals who have retained that knowledge are demons. I'm curious to see how the history of blood magic will be explained in future games. I often wonder if it was knowledge forcefully lost and demonized by the Chantry / Templars in an effort to control Mages. Without Lyrium, mages really can't defend themselves unless they rely upon blood magic (force within).

Its been explained by the Codex and the games that the Dalish practice a form of blood magic. I imagine that is why Keepers are so deeply revered. Because they are strong enough to resist the corruption of power that comes with owning that magic.

[Magicman10893]

Templars treat Mages worse than the dirt they feed them for being born with powers that make them superior, and Mages turn to the only thing that they think will even out the battlefield, Blood Magic. This of course is the one thing that the Templars fear most, so they pound the "regular" Mages even further into the ground. A damned if you do, damned if you don't situation to me. As much as I think Blood Magic is wrong, I can't help but support the Mages in their rebellion, also Anders blowing up the Chantry isn't justifiable, it only makes Mages look worse and cause even more reason for the Chantry to start and Exalted March against Kirkwall. But then again, maybe destroying the corrupt system that oppresses Mages will cause the Circles all of Thedas to stand up against the Chantry and we can finally be rid of those damned Chanters of the Light douchebags that stand next to every Chantry Board.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Haven't you heard? Blood mages are "in".

[Vandicus]

Just reminding people, Orsino was involved in the research that helped make Leandra into zombie Leandra. Kirkwall Killer and he go way back, they did research on the subject together, which gave Orsino the spell he used before he turned into a boss.

[Varus Praetor]

It was incredibly frustrating. No matter what you did, even the mages you help become blood mages. Mages that you freed and forgot about show up at the last minute and....bam, blood mages. "A conspiracy to overthrow Meredith? Awesome, I hate that chick.....oops, sorry, only blood mages allowed." So now I get to fight about 50 blood mages that I'd actually like to help out, only to finally have a conversation, explain that I want to help and then STILL get attacked...by a blood mage. Oh and, ha, I was a blood mage. But of course, BW can't write that choice into the story. It's not like it's probably the most popular mage specialization.

Horrible, horrible writing. Thanks to my choosing to play a mage and support the mages in my first play through, I'm not sure how I'm going to play it again. The templars all suck, I can't do the endless waves of ungrateful blood mages again. Maybe I'll see if there's an option where I just kill everyone in the entire game. Every single character. I'd play that option at this point.

[Magni56]

My $0.05:

The whole Kirkwall fiasco lies at Merediths feet. I'm in support of the Templar/Circle system, but it simply won't work if you put a paranoid hardline nutter in charge of the Templars. Imo, the best solution to fix that would be a balance of powers system. Put the First Enchanter and the Templar CO on equal level, then introduce a third party. (Local Chantry mother/Grand Cleric or local authorities? Personally, I'd choose the Chantry.) This new authority only has two powers/duties. First, to act as a tiebreaker if the First Enchanter and Templar commander don't agree on something. Second, to sack either or both of them in case a trainwreck like Kirkwall is in the brewing because the guy(s) on top are fanatical blockheads.

As for the latter part of the Kirkwall fiasco, my personal opinion goes along the lines of "a plague on all the warmongering idiots on both sides."* If it had been there, I'd totally picked the option to rally the city guard and population and slap both sides until they stopped this bull****. As for Anders... yeah. No. The cause does not justify the means. And it was stupid to boot. Given just how things were going, Anders would have had his war within the year without kicking it off by killing a boatload of innocents.

On Blood Magic, my personal take is that a blanket ban is a dumb decision.  Better to give circle mages the ability to go for it in exchange for them getting special high-security confinement (and being fully informed of that beforehand). Well, except for those who want to play around with demons, mind control or using other people's blood. For them, the solution consists of a sharp implement to the head.

*says the Apostate. 

Modifié par Magni56, 15 mars 2011 - 04:33 .

[Adynata]

I also regretted siding with the mages, although I was not a mage. I just don't understand how Anders thought his little plan would actually help things. All he did was prove all mages there were indeed blood mages.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

There are like two mages who aren't blood mages in all of Kirkwall. Bethany. And Feyndrial. Possibly Alain, but since he ran off with Blood Mages not once, but TWICE, I'm betting he's actually a Blood Mage as well.

Meredith was right. If anything, she was far too leniant. Should have erased the circle from existence years ago to avert this disaster. 

[Vandicus]

Look at it this way. Mages are normal people. They don't have extraordinary discipline just because they have magical powers. Mages also have to deal with a problem that borderlines schizophrenia, what with the demons being equivalent to malicious auditory and visual hallucinations. The vast majority of people, when told to do evil things repeatedly by voices in their head end up going off their rockers. To make it worse, the demons offer power and the mages often seem to be oppressed. No suprise that these mages are blood mages, especially when considering the First Enchanter has been helping the Kirkwall Killer research blood magic for years.

[Yakko77]

Magni56 wrote...

My $0.05:

The whole Kirkwall fiasco lies at Merediths feet. I'm in support of the Templar/Circle system, but it simply won't work if you put a paranoid hardline nutter in charge of the Templars. Imo, the best solution to fix that would be a balance of powers system. Put the First Enchanter and the Templar CO on equal level, then introduce a third party. (Local Chantry mother/Grand Cleric or local authorities? Personally, I'd choose the Chantry.) This new authority only has two powers/duties. First, to act as a tiebreaker if the First Enchanter and Templar commander don't agree on something. Second, to sack either or both of them in case a trainwreck like Kirkwall is in the brewing because the guy(s) on top are fanatical blockheads.

As for the latter part of the Kirkwall fiasco, my personal opinion goes along the lines of "a plague on all the warmongering idiots on both sides."* If it had been there, I'd totally picked the option to rally the city guard and population and slap both sides until they stopped this bull****. As for Anders... yeah. No. The cause does not justify the means. And it was stupid to boot. Given just how things were going, Anders would have had his war within the year without kicking it off by killing a boatload of innocents.

On Blood Magic, my personal take is that a blanket ban is a dumb decision.  Better to give circle mages the ability to go for it in exchange for them getting special high-security confinement (and being fully informed of that beforehand). Well, except for those who want to play around with demons, mind control or using other people's blood. For them, the solution consists of a sharp implement to the head.

*says the Apostate. 

I  ended up siding with the mages in my first play through but I too wish for a 3rd option as both were part of the problem and not a solution.

Maybe when we join up with the Hero of Ferelden we can put a stop to it all.  I do like the "cliffhanger" ending but I  do hope for DLC  or expansion that brings this story to a conclusion though I  can see it waiting till  DA3.

[Kimberly Shaw]

It was incredibly frustrating. No matter what you did, even the mages you help become blood mages. Mages that you freed and forgot about show up at the last minute and....bam, blood mages. "A conspiracy to overthrow Meredith? Awesome, I hate that chick.....oops, sorry, only blood mages allowed." So now I get to fight about 50 blood mages that I'd actually like to help out, only to finally have a conversation, explain that I want to help and then STILL get attacked...by a blood mage. Oh and, ha, I was a blood mage. But of course, BW can't write that choice into the story. It's not like it's probably the most popular mage specialization.

Horrible, horrible writing. Thanks to my choosing to play a mage and support the mages in my first play through, I'm not sure how I'm going to play it again. The templars all suck, I can't do the endless waves of ungrateful blood mages again. Maybe I'll see if there's an option where I just kill everyone in the entire game. Every single character. I'd play that option at this point.

I think you and I, sir, are separated at birth. I feel the EXACT same way. Horrible writing, I hated the 3rd act.

[Raiil]

The only way I was able to rationalise it with my toon is: my Hawke is already off the deep end, therefore I don't have to rationalise it.


In all seriousness, I feel like it's a mixture of herp derp YOU WANT MAGIC ABOMINATIONS? RIGHT HERE, A-----E! and decent people that were pushed to the edge. I'll warrant that more than a few people on this forum know how to do things that would land them in jail. Do you do them? Not unless circumstances forced you to, or make you think you're being forced to.

[Montana]

"Dragon Age 2" sould have been named "Bloodmage age 1"

Sure, there were some mages who didn't resort to blood magic, but, you defenately got the sense thet every damn mage was a blood mage.

If they'd just thrown in some regular mages in the final battle, even if they were just "extras" cowering in a corner, I'd felt much better about the ending.

And Orisino (sp?) becoming a harvester through blood magic, and then turning on the one person trying to help him and his mages!?
I mean, wtf. Epic fail!

[Magni56]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Meredith was right. If anything, she was far too leniant. Should have erased the circle from existence years ago to avert this disaster. 

Quite to the contrary, Meredith was the root of the problem. Her entire behaviour served to drive the mages against the wall and created a death-spiral. Mage flips out due to unnecessarily harsh oppression -> harsher opression -> more mages flipping out and so on. Push a human, any human, hard enough and long enough and he/she WILL lash out. That it actually took 6+ years before it all boiled over is a testament to the discipline and tolerance of the circle mages. If you tried even half the stuff Hawke hears of being done to the circle mages on a normal prison population, you'll have a prisoner revolt in 6 months, tops.

The only debatable thing is wether it was that blasted artifact or if Meredith would have gone psycho regardless.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Magni56 wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Meredith was right. If anything, she was far too leniant. Should have erased the circle from existence years ago to avert this disaster. 

Quite to the contrary, Meredith was the root of the problem. Her entire behaviour served to drive the mages against the wall and created a death-spiral. Mage flips out due to unnecessarily harsh oppression -> harsher opression -> more mages flipping out and so on. Push a human, any human, hard enough and long enough and he/she WILL lash out. That it actually took 6+ years before it all boiled over is a testament to the discipline and tolerance of the circle mages. If you tried even half the stuff Hawke hears of being done to the circle mages on a normal prison population, you'll have a prisoner revolt in 6 months, tops.

The only debatable thing is wether it was that blasted artifact or if Meredith would have gone psycho regardless.

It's pretty clear that even the First Enchanter had been practicing Blood Magic for years if you bothered to read the notes when trying to save your mother. 

It's perfectly clear that this is hardly simply a result of pushback against Meredith's actions. She was right. They really were practicing Blood Magic, and when the First Enchanter himself has been doing so for years, how many other mages was he covering for during all that time?

I mean, once you realize the depths that Orsino had been lying at, a lot of things start to become crystal clear, and all his protests loose any semblence of coherance.

I stand by my statement. If you took the time to get to know Meredith, you'd have seen that the actions she's taken against the Mages hurt her deeply, and that she is TRYING to do everything short of calling for annulment. Which she finally does. And, who can blame her at that point.

Blaming it all on her as if all those mages only took up Blood Magic out of plight is incredibly naive and simplistic.

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 15 mars 2011 - 05:13 .