167 réponses à ce sujet

[rekn2]

they arent female they are feminite.

dont like how they look then create something better

[CARL_DF90]

Overlander wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

@ Overlander

Great minds think alike because I was thinking the same thing. Oh, or here's another interesting thought to make people's heads spin: what if a "male" Asari is what you get when an Ardat'yakshi somehow conceives a child?

Glad you like it, and interesting premise, one that I've considered as well. It actually ties into my first notion, regarding the males as an ancient omen/rare birth.

You see, I'm of the opinion that an Ardat-yakshi isn't a genetic defect, but something akin to a truer version of asari. The idea of possibly killing your potential mate would be quite an effective population control, seeing as how they live for a millenium. If there was no risk in breeding, they could have easily bred themselves into extinction through lack of resources. It's a matter of control; the modern-day, average asari isn't nearly as powerful as an ardat-yakshi, but has an ease with control to the point that they can breed with other species without issue.

I think that breeding two ardat-yakshi MIGHT be possible, just really hard to do, and if so, it would only work with that kind of pairing. For a non-AY, it's suicide, because the ardat-yakshi overwhelm them in the mind-meld; it's like trying to naturally conceive a child with Superman. Potentially enjoyable, but you're probably not surviving the attempt to completion.

LOL! Yeah, exactly! ALthough I wonder how Lois Lane managed? Maybe Clark was REAL gentle. Heh, anyways back on tpic mode.  Anyways, I wonder what kind of reactions/social stigma there would be in a male Asari even showing up? There is already enough bigotry over pure-bloods. Ardats most commonly happen in pure-bloods afterall.  Makes you wonder if the Asari would accept it as a step forward in their species future without relying on other species for geneic code in reproduction, or would be rejected as a freak of nature. Hey Bioware! PLEASE! Take this idea and RUN WITH IT! It'll potentially makes things more interesting.

[Overlander]

@ CARL_DF90

In regards to my theories regarding the reactions, I refer you to my first posting in this thread, in the case of a natural birth. A male asari conceived and birthed naturally (ardat-yakshi pairing or otherwise) would be ostracized and shunned AT BEST, and that's a best-case scenario of being considered an evolutionary throwback. In a worst-case scenario, i.e. being viewed as an abomination, I highly doubt a male asari born in anything less than strict isolation would survive to see its first year.

Justicars would probably kill them at birth if they were to learn of the existence of such, and I believe this due to the idea that if one were to exist, it would have abilities and hazards comparable to ardat-yakshi. That belief seems in line, at least to me, in an evolutionary standpoint. An enthralling talent would be an excellent impetus in finding suitable mates (especially if the "thrall" worked more effectively with the more sensitive, as it seems to), and powerful biotic potential would be handy in establishing a dominance in the case of multiple males, or in the conception of a more powerful familial line.

So, in summation: if naturally conceived, they are hated.

Artificially, though....might be a bit of a tossup.

[Get Magna Carter]

Overlander wrote...

True, but the idea that they do IS heavily implied; they do bond and mate with species that reproduce via sex, and as such have to accomodate their part of the bond as well. Once again, elementary biology leans heavily toward simpler means of reproduction as opposed to complex, and a form of parthenogenesis based off a mental/psychological/biotic? link seems a bit too complex to have formed without some more primitive means, even if said means are all but vestigial.

Also, if the consort's and Liara's scenes are any indication, even if the physical and biochemical aspects of sex are unnecessary, they don't seem too terribly uncomfortable, let alone painful.

Asari sex has 2 components 
1 is a psychic link through which emotions of participants can interact
the other is "melding" a process which through skin contact an Asari merges nervous systems with the intended mate....no physical sexual organs are (neccesarily involved) - the melding process affects the conception of the child but the exact manner is unknown (Asari like to believe the child inherits the best qualities of the "father" but many consider this to be a myth suggesting it could be arbitary attributes of the "father" (rather than the best) or random qualities stimulated by the melding)

Whether Asari reproduction has always worked this way or if they reached it through evolution is unclear.
If evolved and Male Asari once existed they are now obsolete and "extinct"
if not evolved then the terms "Asari" and "male" are mutually contradictory and the closest you can get is either a "butch" Asari or a sterile/neuter Asari 

[grimkillah]

Multiple sexes isn't the most effective evolutionary path, the most effective one is like common reed frogs, that can change their sexes, depending on numerical balances of the population. If two female frog live together for extended time, one will turn to male for reproduction, and if too many male frog within a population some male would return to female to balance. This is the ultimate safeguard against extinction, as long as two frogs remain, the entire population can be rebuilt. However two human female or male would mean the end of humanity. Given the stability of Earth's history during Human time, I would say multiple sex might be a rare thing in the universe.
On Earth, the reason we have male and female, is that while in the beginning all basic lifeform are asexual, or female if you like, and as life evolves, it begun to create male as a filter for genetic mistake during reproduction, most likely due to increase in genetic complexity. so if life on earth found a different way to safeguard again mistakes during genetic reproduction, then all else been equal, we will have an all female humanity, similar to the Asari. However we took the current evolutionary path, and Asari appear to used their way.
Given that the most evolved (complex) lifeform on Thessia is asexual, there must be an evolutionary advantage to be so, maybe higher than normal UV radiation, so one can assume that most if not all the life form on Thessia is asexual.

Modifié par grimkillah, 13 novembre 2011 - 03:21 .

[CARL_DF90]

Overlander wrote...

@ CARL_DF90

In regards to my theories regarding the reactions, I refer you to my first posting in this thread, in the case of a natural birth. A male asari conceived and birthed naturally (ardat-yakshi pairing or otherwise) would be ostracized and shunned AT BEST, and that's a best-case scenario of being considered an evolutionary throwback. In a worst-case scenario, i.e. being viewed as an abomination, I highly doubt a male asari born in anything less than strict isolation would survive to see its first year.

Justicars would probably kill them at birth if they were to learn of the existence of such, and I believe this due to the idea that if one were to exist, it would have abilities and hazards comparable to ardat-yakshi. That belief seems in line, at least to me, in an evolutionary standpoint. An enthralling talent would be an excellent impetus in finding suitable mates (especially if the "thrall" worked more effectively with the more sensitive, as it seems to), and powerful biotic potential would be handy in establishing a dominance in the case of multiple males, or in the conception of a more powerful familial line.

So, in summation: if naturally conceived, they are hated.

Artificially, though....might be a bit of a tossup.

Good points. Your post did remind me of the ancient legend of the Incubus, which would be an interesting parallel given the situation you described. 

[Overlander]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

Asari sex has 2 components 
1 is a psychic link through which emotions of participants can interact
the other is "melding" a process which through skin contact an Asari merges nervous systems with the intended mate....no physical sexual organs are (neccesarily involved) - the melding process affects the conception of the child but the exact manner is unknown (Asari like to believe the child inherits the best qualities of the "father" but many consider this to be a myth suggesting it could be arbitary attributes of the "father" (rather than the best) or random qualities stimulated by the melding)

Whether Asari reproduction has always worked this way or if they reached it through evolution is unclear.
If evolved and Male Asari once existed they are now obsolete and "extinct"
if not evolved then the terms "Asari" and "male" are mutually contradictory and the closest you can get is either a "butch" Asari or a sterile/neuter Asari 

Of your two points, I agree wholeheartedly with your former. If one found a male asari in modern setting, I'd wager that within the confines of asari culture, that male would be considered an evolutionary throwback, much like a neanderthal would be considered in human culture; a bit of a novelty, perhaps, but ultimately unwanted and unnecessary. I also agree that male asari are considered extinct, but I'm not sure exactly how that came about, with my suspicions leaning toward the idea that the extinction would have been imposed by the asari.

In regard to your latter point, I can't say I agree, not necessarily. If one were trying to create a male asari artificially, with no further options available to them, then those making the attempt would be doing what the asari do naturally, just in a different fashion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what you wrote, I get the impression that you'd consider an attempt to fashion an asari into a more masculine form, and that's not what I was getting at at all. If one were to try to make an artificial asari male, we're talking more than simply a cosmetic change.

In your posting, you referenced asari breeding practice, and the steps involved. In a true (albeit artificial) asari male, the process would have to be modified; instead of melding in order to take random code changes and introduce them to one's own, the meld would work instead to introduce those genetic changes in another, and then encouraging the mate to release the genetic material to create the synthesis of the two. That, I believe, would be the key difference between the two. Female could breed with any and all species to conceive more asari, whereas the male would only be able to breed with species who could accomodate that style of breeding, but the maternal race would prevail.

Don't get me wrong; if one were to create a male, I don't think the asari would recognize it as an asari. I'm not even sure that other races would consider it an asari. However, if one were to seriously try at making one, I think that there'd be more work in doing so than changing a bone structure and deepening a voice. 

[CARL_DF90]

Exactly my thoughts Overlander. For one, a "male" Asari wouldn't have a womb/birth canal to support having children so of course it would have to introduce it's own DNA into the mother species in order to give birth to its offspring. How THAT would happen would open up a whole new can of worms to discuss. I just hope those fine folks at Bioware are taking notes.

[Newbcake-N7]

From the Mass Effect Codex:
Although asari have one gender, they are not asexual. An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring. The second set is altered in a unique process called melding.

During melding, and asari consciously attunes her nervous system to her partner's, sending and receiving electrical impulses directly through the skin. The partner can be another asari, or an alien of either gender. Effectively, the asari and her partner briefly become one unified nervous system.

So there you have it.

[Overlander]

Newbcake-N7 wrote...

From the Mass Effect Codex:
Although asari have one gender, they are not asexual. An asari provides two copies of her own genes to her offspring. The second set is altered in a unique process called melding.

During melding, and asari consciously attunes her nervous system to her partner's, sending and receiving electrical impulses directly through the skin. The partner can be another asari, or an alien of either gender. Effectively, the asari and her partner briefly become one unified nervous system.

So there you have it.

Yes, we have "it"...and it is here (or there, depending on your location). My question: why does our possession of "it", and it's location, mean anything?

Smartass comments aside, I think we've read the codex entries regarding the asari (if memory serves, secondary codex, subtopic: biology), and as such know what canon has to say on the matter. If your point is, that with this stated plainly in the codex, the discussion herein is moot, then (once more), I must disagree.

From what I've seen of the codex, the topics listed within isn't a statement of what is and is not in accordance with the Mass Effect universe, but more akin to what is and is not in accordance to what COMMANDER SHEPARD KNOWS. Therefore, what is listed in the codex is subject to change as Shepard's knowledge of the subject grows. As he/she hasn't done any in-depth study of the asari, nor does he/she develop any knowledge of them aside from what he/she learns from his/her asari teammates and the occasional NPC encounter, Shepard's knowledge, and consequently, the codex, remain incomplete. (Editor's note: A character with a customizeable gender is a pain in the ass to proofread for, if only for the pronouns.)

Another thing to consider: the popularity and probable availability of that information. In the case of natural occurrence, does anyone truly believe that if asari males were a possibility, the asari would want that information released for intergalactic consumption? I think the asari would bury that information as quickly and discreetly as they could, if for no other reason that the information could damage the asari influence and utterly distort the intergalactic opinion of them, especially if there were suspicion of the asari trying to intentionally suppress the information. As for the case of artificial occurrence, almost no one would have any idea of the possibility, merely the staff working on the project and the successes and failures of such experimentation.

Either way, Shepard wouldn't know unless he/she encountered one or the other, and as such, the codex remains blank.

Modifié par Overlander, 17 novembre 2011 - 08:30 .

[didymos1120]

Overlander wrote...

From what I've seen of the codex, the topics listed within isn't a statement of what is and is not in accordance with the Mass Effect universe, but more akin to what is and is not in accordance to what COMMANDER SHEPARD KNOWS.

Not really.  Shep doesn't think Sovereign was a geth ship.  The Codex does.

Modifié par didymos1120, 18 novembre 2011 - 12:09 .

[Overlander]

didymos1120 wrote...

Overlander wrote...

From what I've seen of the codex, the topics listed within isn't a statement of what is and is not in accordance with the Mass Effect universe, but more akin to what is and is not in accordance to what COMMANDER SHEPARD KNOWS.

Not really.  Shep doesn't think Sovereign was a geth ship.  The Codex does.

Actually, until the crew reached Virmire and encountered the interface to Sovereign, they did. I get what you mean, though. What I should have written when I wrote that was, "...more akin to what is and is not public knowledge in accordance to what COMMANDER SHEPARD KNOWS."

What appears in the codex, at least to me, reads along the lines of encyclopedia entries regarding people, places and things that Shepard encounters. It makes sense in that the codex is simply a source of supplimental information, as if the player accessed an ethernet terminal and researched the topics. Of course, in the case of your example, when it was learned later that Sovereign was a Reaper, it makes sense that the information wouldn't change, as aside from Sovereign and its minions, only Shepard and crew knew that. (Yes, Captain Anderson believed it, but everyone else reacted with either disbelief or denial.)

Anyway, thanks for the catch.

[CARL_DF90]

One thing that would intrigue me is how a male Asari would behave. Would "he" be fitting into a brash, carefree, impatient, fight loving paradigm or something else? I mean, given what we know about how the "female" types typically act during the various stages of their lives.

[NocturnalStillness]

Paars wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

they're unisex

which isn't far fetched, there are species in the oceans that are unisex

This is fine, but having them all look like human females is a bit silly.

In Mass Effect there is a scene where a human, turian and Salarian sitting at a table with an Asari stripper. If you listen to them they all claim that the Asari looks similar to their own species.

So maybe Asari look like human females solely because the main character is human?

[Overlander]

@CARL_DF90

Difficult to say. Obviously, it would vary from person to person, but as for brash and carefree, I doubt it. Whether naturally or artificially conceived, I would think that a male asari wouldn't have a very strong sense of belonging, leading to a more subdued personality.

My best guess, is that they would have something of a survivor-type persona; sort of what you'd get if you crossed a stereotypical krogan with a quarrian pilgrim. I get a sense of uncertainty and isolationism, along with an inner conflict due to anxiety warring with curiosity. All of this, masked heavily with a stoic, cynical, whatever-gets-the-job-done attitude. Make no mistake: this character would be a fighter born, but only because he would see things as him alone against the galaxy.

At least, that's how it looks from my POV.

[CARL_DF90]

Interesting. After having thought through it I agree. His life would be one of constant stuggle. Being alone in the galactic crowd would be a horrible sensation indeed.

[DeathScepter]

All Asari uses pathnogenesis for reproduction. SO there is no need for any males. So they can have children with Female or Male Partners. Yes they are females to a point in that they can give birth and carry children regardless of whom their partner was.

Modifié par DeathScepter, 20 novembre 2011 - 12:49 .

[Overlander]

DeathScepter wrote...

All Asari uses pathnogenesis for reproduction. SO there is no need for any males. So they can have children with Female or Male Partners. Yes they are females to a point in that they can give birth and carry children regardless of whom their partner was.

The discussion isn't about the need for male asari. It's about if they're possible, and if so, how plausible.

[Get Magna Carter]

Ultimately the current nature of the Asari means a true Asari male is a contradiction in terms.
The closest we can get is a "Neo Asari" male,,where a "Neo Asari" is a new race (possibly artificially created based on Asari genetics but too different to be a true Asari),
Or possibly a "Neanderthal Asari" male where "Neanderthal Asari" is a hypothetical ancestor species of the Asari which did have 2 genders...but there is no evidence that such a species existed.

For a "Neo Asari" male...you would either also need a "Neo Asari" female for reproduction or the "Neo Asari" would be an "incubus" species implanting it's young into other beings.
I am not certain if such a being would technically count as male but I do know I would want to avoid all contact with it...or kill on sight if unavoidable (the whole incubus thing freaks me out)..

[Overlander]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

Ultimately the current nature of the Asari means a true Asari male is a contradiction in terms.
The closest we can get is a "Neo Asari" male,,where a "Neo Asari" is a new race (possibly artificially created based on Asari genetics but too different to be a true Asari),
Or possibly a "Neanderthal Asari" male where "Neanderthal Asari" is a hypothetical ancestor species of the Asari which did have 2 genders...but there is no evidence that such a species existed.

For a "Neo Asari" male...you would either also need a "Neo Asari" female for reproduction or the "Neo Asari" would be an "incubus" species implanting it's young into other beings.
I am not certain if such a being would technically count as male but I do know I would want to avoid all contact with it...or kill on sight if unavoidable (the whole incubus thing freaks me out)..

No argument. There's a reason no one's ever heard of male asari; either they never existed before, or they haven't existed for a long time. As for there being no evidence, remember that we are seeing the world from the perspective of a human military officer/reanimated corpse/creator of massive explosions and heaps of dead bodies. We AREN'T given the perspective of an asari historian, archaeologist (Liara's studies were on Protheans), or geneticist. Therefore, what we know is limited to what Shepard finds out. So, unless Mass Effect 3 involves a plotline that involves an in-depth inquiry into asari history (Spoiler: pretty sure it doesn't), then we're stuck playing this game of proving/disproving despite lack of evidence.

[CARL_DF90]

Well, since we are going to Theasia, the Asari home world, in ME3 we'll see what is dug up. Me personally? I wouldn't mind a DLC story pack involving a "male". Would love to see Liara's (or any Asari's) reaction. It would help to give us even more insight into the Asari people. Plus, in ME2 Harbinger made an interesting comment on how he considered the Asari's reliance on other races for reproduction a weakness. Maybe an Asari scientist would feel the same way and do something about it, like artificially create one. Just throwing ideas around in the hope Bioware snatch it up for later.

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:20 .

[DeathScepter]

Overlander wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

All Asari uses pathnogenesis for reproduction. SO there is no need for any males. So they can have children with Female or Male Partners. Yes they are females to a point in that they can give birth and carry children regardless of whom their partner was.

The discussion isn't about the need for male asari. It's about if they're possible, and if so, how plausible.

What I am saying it is not plausible due to Asari genetics. When an Asari gets pregant, they will always be females like their mothers before them. In the real world, there are pure female species of lizards. Like those species, Asari need sexual stimuli to reproduce, Thus having a partner.

With Biology, there always be a bit of squick.

[someone else]

hard time believing this thread is so long - asari reproduction is about as central canon as you get in the ME universe. Speculation on 'male' asari is about as useful as ****** on a boar. ditto an early post - Read the Codex, listen to Liari and generally get with the program.

If you want to speculate on the mechanics of Asari reproduction that is another, more interesting inquiry.

My view, created solely for my own satisfaction is that the Asari pubic region is comprised of prehensile/erectile structured tissues, similar to the convolutions on their heads, where we have hair. During arousal, these tissues - which are replete with neural and sensory endings, can either invaginate or form a penile erection, which allows them to accommodate a wide variety of genital anatomies. The basis of Asari reproduction is a joining of both the neural and genetic structures of the partners, hence the value, whenever and to whatever extent possible of intimate physical contact.

not asking anyone to buy in, but it satisfies me.

Modifié par someone else, 21 novembre 2011 - 03:57 .

[DeathScepter]

Paars wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

they're unisex

which isn't far fetched, there are species in the oceans that are unisex

This is fine, but having them all look like human females is a bit silly.

 

Techinally there are both unisexed and female. Typically of majority of species, the female carries the children even in unisex species. Remember the Asari bred thru panthogenesis and carry the child regardless of "father". Even within the Panthogenesis centric species, when two females mate Only one gets pregant.