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#151
xbeton0L

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Overlander! Long time old buddy. Seems we're not all estranged to the ME2 boards now. Lol...

I think this topic, though now stagnant, has a lot of room for development. Something I actually "thought" I saw with ME3 DLC, the prothean Javik. Which was somewhat the embodiment of 'running into this guy, from a strange place, unknown in origin, etc'. I'd love to see an actual male asari though. Matter of fact, that's all I could think about because that DLC reminded me of this concept.

@Overlander
I'll break from that and speculate on your proposed idea, that technically a male would be born out of hypothetical malfunction of the maternal body, of course this would be hard to normalize as a standard for the birthing of actual males - but lets say some underground organization found out about this and began to abduct random asari's and forcing them to undergo physical trauma, causing their children to develop with masculine characteristics. However, I'd imagine this version of the asari male to be fundamentally identical in physical capability - since there wouldn't be any biological incentive to develop dramatically differentiating characteristics that befit the male profile. Such as increased strength, endurance and stamina - just regulating the balance for genetic diversity.

In this version of such asari, they would be smaller in structure, however still masculine in appearance. They would be proficient in biotics, perhaps even a degree better than their feminine counterparts - since they lack the maternal ability to produce offspring. Similar to bishonen men, drawn in Japanese manga - usually the pretty, elegant and intelligent men, with albeit girlish properties; and they are intentionally drawn this way.

Just an extra two-cents. :D

#152
Guest_Imanol de Tafalla_*

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Overlander wrote...

Due to the fact I work a no-brain-required job at a time of day where people are either zombified or incoherently drunk, I've had some time to think this topic over. Here's what I've got.

Asari reproduce, as we all know, by parthenogenesis, and the conception of a new asari requires no genetic material from a donor (i.e. no "father"). However, if the asari are truly only one sex, then why would their mating rituals mirror that of other races? Just the presence of sex organs in the asari make me question this.

Then there's also elementary biology at work; nature, when given options, usually strays toward the simplest means of working. Complex means and methods evolve from simple ones, which doesn't lend credence to the notion that we're given. At the very least, the one given isn't likely the way it's ALWAYS been.

Here's my notion: at some point in asari history, well before their culture achieved civilization enough to travel in space, there were two sexes. Males were exceedingly rare births (maybe 1 in every 500,000 or so), and in primitive civilizations, could have even been considered good omens for a time, and as such, given reverence due to their rarity. In this speculative history, there could have been a period where more than one such birth occurred, possibly even numerous births, and the two or more males fought for dominance, dragging female asari loyal to each of them into the fight and dragging their race into an equivalent of Europe's dark ages. After the resulting war (and a catastrophic number of casualties), the remainder of the civilization could have dreaded more male births from this, believing that what was once a good omen was now a blight upon their societies, and quite possibly a threat to their very existence.

I like this explanation, due to the fact that it also allows us to explain the existences of other aspects that have developed in asari society. First, this speculative history gives a possible explanation for the formation of the justicars, where in this instance, could have formed from a number of asari females able to resist a male asari's thrall, and after noting how badly their people suffered, decided to wage a war of attrition against them in order to save their race from extinction. That would certainly explain the military focus in their order, as well as the reverence other asari give them.

It also explains the fear and hatred of ardat-yakshi as it pertains to modern day; with none of the male asari existant any longer, I see them quite easily going after the next closest thing, a threat of similar significance: female asari exhibiting traits seen in the males. Matter of fact, it wouldn't strike me at all odd if the term first applied to male asari. As the modern day ardat-yakshi are oftentimes considered the product of a "pureblood" birth, it also explains the presence of that societal stigma in greater depth.

Anyway, that's what I've got. Feel free to argue any point, but just like in school, be prepared to show your work.


I would like to add that the biotic abilities in the Asari were the result of genetic modifications made by the Protheans.  The ability to meld could have resulted from Prothean intervention, which would tie in to your statement about male births being a rare occuence.  Giving the Asari the ability to meld would render males obsolete and increase the birth rate of the Asari population.

Modifié par Imanol de Tafalla, 05 août 2012 - 03:51 .


#153
CARL_DF90

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xbeton0L wrote...

Overlander! Long time old buddy. Seems we're not all estranged to the ME2 boards now. Lol...

I think this topic, though now stagnant, has a lot of room for development. Something I actually "thought" I saw with ME3 DLC, the prothean Javik. Which was somewhat the embodiment of 'running into this guy, from a strange place, unknown in origin, etc'. I'd love to see an actual male asari though. Matter of fact, that's all I could think about because that DLC reminded me of this concept.

@Overlander
I'll break from that and speculate on your proposed idea, that technically a male would be born out of hypothetical malfunction of the maternal body, of course this would be hard to normalize as a standard for the birthing of actual males - but lets say some underground organization found out about this and began to abduct random asari's and forcing them to undergo physical trauma, causing their children to develop with masculine characteristics. However, I'd imagine this version of the asari male to be fundamentally identical in physical capability - since there wouldn't be any biological incentive to develop dramatically differentiating characteristics that befit the male profile. Such as increased strength, endurance and stamina - just regulating the balance for genetic diversity.

In this version of such asari, they would be smaller in structure, however still masculine in appearance. They would be proficient in biotics, perhaps even a degree better than their feminine counterparts - since they lack the maternal ability to produce offspring. Similar to bishonen men, drawn in Japanese manga - usually the pretty, elegant and intelligent men, with albeit girlish properties; and they are intentionally drawn this way.

Just an extra two-cents. :D



I like your extra two cents! Here's some extra: a hypothetical malee Asari would have the ability to impregnate females but the offspring would all be female unless mated with an Asari in which case the probability of another male Asari being born would go up.

#154
Inquisitor Recon

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Necromancy!

#155
CARL_DF90

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Huh? o.o

#156
Overlander

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Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I would like to add that the biotic abilities in the Asari were the result of genetic modifications made by the Protheans.  The ability to meld could have resulted from Prothean intervention, which would tie in to your statement about male births being a rare occuence.  Giving the Asari the ability to meld would render males obsolete and increase the birth rate of the Asari population.



Interesting point, and I'll raise you this: who's to say that the lack of male asari in present day isn't the result of Prothean tampering? According to the wiki of ME, the "genetic defect" of an Ardat-Yakshi is present in as much as 1% of the asari population, implying that at one point, the Ardat-Yakshi were capable of mating. If the traits leading to the creation of an AY were a true genetic defect, I would imagine that at least 45,000 years of nothing but pureblood mating (their only recourse after the Protheans cut their ties as their cycle ended until the asari encountered the salarians) would drive that number much higher. If not, why has this trait not died out by now if the carriers of these genetic traits are sterile by nature?

This leads me to another idea regarding why the hypothesized neanderthal asari male is no longer: The asari are the victims of an aborted Prothean uplift, and the Ardat-Yakshi are a subset afflicted with a 50,000 year-long Prothean version of the genophage.

One possible way this could go: During the Prothean observation of the asari, just before the Reaper invasion, the Protheans noticed the males of the species, while much rarer than the females, had certain traits that were deemed valuable to the Protheans. Perhaps it was a vast amount of talent with biotics, perhaps it was the ability to mentally unify and coordinate females through their version of enthrallment, or perhaps due to their circumstances of birth, it could have been an immunity or strong resistance to mental domination themselves. After all, if both parents were what would be known as Ardat-Yakshi, survival to term would require some protection from their mother's overwhelming mental link.  Whatever it was, it sparked the Protheans' interest, enough for the Protheans to consider the idea of intervening directly with the development of the asari, doing what they could to accelerate the process with minimal harm. It stands to reason, considering Javik's dismissive and condescending treatment of Liara in ME3, that if the asari had nothing to offer the Protheans, they wouldn't have expended so much effort to advance the asari civilization; aside from protecting a garden world from outside threats, they would have simply waited until the asari died off or developed their civilization enough to induct them into the empire as a servant race.

Anyway, continuing with the speculative history, the invasion of the Reapers changed the Prothean point of view, especially as the Protheans watched their vast imperial fleets and ground forces slowly get chewed up and worn down in their war of attrition, an attempt at an impromptu uplift was conceived. The Protheans would make contact with the primitive asari, and with the right approach, convince the males that their homeworld and all who lived on it were in danger due to a monstrous, ancient evil, and offer them the opportunity to fight for all they held dear.

The primitives, in awe of their otherworldly and sophisticated guests they mistook for gods, in hearing this sales pitch, leapt at the chance, and a compact was drawn up. The asari, in exchange for basic Prothean teachings, would lend their most powerful to the Prothean war effort, and after the war concluded, the Protheans would finish the job of the asari uplift, advancing their civilization until they were ready for induction into the empire. So, the strongest and most capable of the asari (composed mostly of either Ardat-Yakshi progenitors or males) were gathered up, and with a crash course in Prothean warfare, were shipped to the front lines to fight.

All went well until indoctrinated Prothean agents, noticing the recent additions to the battlefront (as well as their formidable approach to Reaper forces) began to let slip to them that the Protheans weren't being completely honest with them; that the Protheans had no intention of fulfilling their word, that the Protheans were simply using the asari, and that the asari would make only slaves to the Prothean empire. These rumors and snippets of gossip shook the asari forces' belief in the Protheans, but didn't break it. At least, not until they saw the advance of the Reapers through the Athena Nebula via scout ship readings, saw them approach Thessia...and keep moving past. Having been entrenched in the Protheans' war for decades now, seeing the mounting numbers of asari casualties, only to find that the enemy didn't care if they lived, and that their gods, so wondrous and beneficent before, didn't care if they died, the incensed primitives took the only course of action they knew would hurt their users: they refused to fight.

When the Protheans learned of the asari defiance, knowing the consequences this would have not only on the war effort, but their other servant races if word of this got out, met the asari protest with brute force, decimating the core resistance with orbital bombardment strikes against the dissenters. Their message was clear: fight, or die. Presented with this answer, the asari dissent turned quickly into ill-fated rebellion, with only a handful of asari troops surviving the infighting. The remaining few were quickly executed for their brothers' and sisters' crimes.

The rebellion had been put down, but the Protheans still had the problem that the asari primitives on Thessia had not upheld their end of the compact. The Protheans would not let this stand, and they sent a communication back to Thessia, detailing how the enemy poisoned the minds of those they sent, and how willingly their fighters took to betrayal, painting what was a force outraged at being manipulated so callously into a cadre of power-hungry, amoral opportunists, eager to betray not only their generous and kind gods, but their own people. It was a masterstroke of wartime propaganda, and the asari still on Thessia ate it up eagerly, going so far as to ending with the asari begging the Protheans to ensure that those...demons... could not appear in their midst again. And the Protheans, while strained due to the war effort, were all too happy to oblige them.


------------------------------

ANYWAY...that's what I've got.

#157
Overlander

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Okay, gathered my thoughts a bit more; now, to tie it all together.
-----------------------------------
The Protheans, during their studies of the asari, had obviously mapped out the genetic sequence that, in its entirety, would produce an Ardat-Yakshi, and consequently a male asari, so a permanent genophage to the asari would definitely have been feasible. However, logistic problems prevented them from weeding out the sequence in its entirety; at that period in asari development, the Ardat-Yakshi sequence remained present in all asari, in varying proportions, and it was too ingrained into the asari genetic code to remove without the potential for castastrophic harm, if not extermination of the asari. To do so safely would require resources and time the Protheans couldn't spare from the war effort, not to mention the possibility of Reaper discovery. However, a temporary fix could be designed and implemented then, only to be undone later, preferably after the asari uplift, when the dangers had passed and the asari were more secure in their placement within the empire.

Thus, the Prothean geneticists that could be spared concocted a genophage-like "lock" to the AY gene sequence by tying it to the reproductive process, amplifying the dangers inherent in typical AY reproduction of the time to the point where the attempt would prove an almost certain death. The genetic lock was introduced to major population centers on Thessia, with most of the population voluntarily submitting themselves for its integration.

As for the remaining male and Ardat-Yakshi asari, however, their shock regarding their fallen people quickly turned into outrage at their own people's blame and subsequent plans. They took this recent development as persecution, an attempt to make them pay for the sins of others. Their outrage was unanimous; their response was anything but.

Plans were formed and fought over. Some wished to appeal their case to the matriarchs, in the hopes of diplomacy prevailing, whereas others sought to take control by brute force. A small faction of apologists suggested sequestering themselves away from the general populace in order to prove their lack of intent to harm, and yet other factions advanced the notion of taking control by enthralling the leaders into inaction. With no consensus among them, it didn't take long until they began to war amongst themselves, with devastating results.

Fights between factions became brutal and bloody, with no clear winner. By the time core leadership has asserted itself amongst the divided factions, the damage had been done. The lock had been implemented amongst the vast majority of the populace, the public perception of the AY and their masculine offspring had solidified as "fact", and the first of what would become the justicar order had already formed and began a purge of the most dangerous among the asari. The survivors would either be killed or rounded up, only to be led into exile.

From there, we know the rest of the story: the Protheans' cycle ended with their destruction, and after the males died off, their story became rumor, then myth.

Modifié par Overlander, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:54 .


#158
CARL_DF90

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Holy CRAP! Bioware should take notes because THAT was well thought out.

#159
V-rcingetorix

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In a reference earlier, it is probable that Asari have a birth canal, at the least. I didn't read all 7 pages, so maybe someone posted this before; Matriarch Atheyta mentions that Benezia was the "Mother" since Benezia "popped her out."

To me, this indicates a birth canal.

Asari culture never mentions having a male influence, so far as I can tell from the codex. Sort of like a planarian, or an earthworm that evolved to a biped. Very unlike the frog-Salarians, monkey-humans or bird-turians.

Therefore it is possible Asari developed w/o males at all, and are simply building up to that genetically. With all the genetic material being collected by hundreds of thousands of Asari (each living for a thousand years), it is probable that some day there will be enough genetic mutation to create a male Asari.
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#160
Overlander

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V-rcingetorix wrote...

In a reference earlier, it is probable that Asari have a birth canal, at the least. I didn't read all 7 pages, so maybe someone posted this before; Matriarch Atheyta mentions that Benezia was the "Mother" since Benezia "popped her out."

To me, this indicates a birth canal.

Asari culture never mentions having a male influence, so far as I can tell from the codex. Sort of like a planarian, or an earthworm that evolved to a biped. Very unlike the frog-Salarians, monkey-humans or bird-turians.

Therefore it is possible Asari developed w/o males at all, and are simply building up to that genetically. With all the genetic material being collected by hundreds of thousands of Asari (each living for a thousand years), it is probable that some day there will be enough genetic mutation to create a male Asari.


First off, welcome to the forum thread. Good to see new blood.

Second off, I highly recommend that you read the prior posts. Most of what you've posted, from what I can see, has been addressed in one fashion or another.

#161
DeathScepter

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In short, Asari is an all female species that uses pathnogenesis(yes it is a real thing within biological) and Biotics(of course Biotics are a mass effect thing). Culturally they don't have the same male female dymanic like other species like Turians, Salarians Humans and other species that have the duel gender system. Side note; there are a specie of Lizards that are all female and so yes Asari can potentially exist in this universe. so start flapping fanboys.



#162
Treacherous J Slither

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Male asari? No I don't want that. Don't even like the idea.

 

I much prefer them as a race of chicks with superpowers.

 

No dongs. There aren't enough females in this series as it is.



#163
Kantr

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In short, Asari is an all female species that uses pathnogenesis(yes it is a real thing within biological) and Biotics(of course Biotics are a mass effect thing). Culturally they don't have the same male female dymanic like other species like Turians, Salarians Humans and other species that have the duel gender system. Side note; there are a specie of Lizards that are all female and so yes Asari can potentially exist in this universe. so start flapping fanboys.

Nice necro


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#164
DeathScepter

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Nice necro

 

 

nice display picture.



#165
GeorgiegGirl

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Asari are an all female race. I am pretty sure this is explained to you after getting Liara in your party.


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#166
DeathScepter

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Asari are an all female race. I am pretty sure this is explained to you after getting Liara in your party.

yes they are all female race and it confounds people that when she said her species doesn't have the concept of male or female like other species do, we have topics like this. Like my earlier post within this thread concerning Asari, Pathnogenesis and their culture in how what Liara said is true while having an all female species is correct at the same time.



#167
Big Magnet

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 *enters*

 

All Asari are futanari

 

*leaves*  :whistle:


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#168
DeathScepter

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 *enters*

 

All Asari are futanari

 

*leaves*  :whistle:

 

 

pictures please.