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[Ahriman Dragonhand]

I believe Cullen has been greatly improved in DA2. He starts as zealot, much like he was in DA:O but later ends up being a fine and fair character. And to think when I first saw him I thought Meredith probably chose him as second 'cause he murdered mages when he fled from Ferelden! Then of course I realized he would be her second regardless of your DA:O choices.

Cullen was really well written. It's not just trying to relieve Meredith from command when it's obvious she's mad, specially if you help mages and choose diplomatic dialogue with him, he gets to admit that they should find a better way for templars and mages to manage the Circles. Not a small thing coming from a high rank templar, and one who lived Uldred's rebelion on top of that.

I think he should play an important role in future DA games, he has lived the worst of the mages and the worst of the templars and should probably be one of the few persons in Thedas with a fair point of view of each sides faults.

[LightningSamus]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Cullen in DA2 earned major respect points from me by the end of the game. In Origins, I couldn't stand the whiny bastard, but when he told Meredith to shove it, I was simply amazed.

That was Awesome!

[Mayorin]

Does anybody have a vid of Bethany being dragged to the circle? I can't find it on youtube.(( Oh! Found it.

Modifié par Mayorin, 24 mars 2011 - 11:37 .

[Wulfram]

In the Mage supporter ending, I find Cullen a bit strange. He's willing to go along with annullment of the circle, but balks at killing an apostate who has just killed a lot of his order? Really, ordering my PC's death is the most sensible thing Meredith does.

[Ahriman Dragonhand]

Wulfram wrote...

In the Mage supporter ending, I find Cullen a bit strange. He's willing to go along with annullment of the circle, but balks at killing an apostate who has just killed a lot of his order? Really, ordering my PC's death is the most sensible thing Meredith does.

Obeying the Knight-Commander about annulment is his duty, wether he agrees or not it's Meredith's call.

However, ordering to kill Hawke after having told her troops she won't do so is dishonest at the very least. But most important, clearly stating in front of them that she will lie about it to blame his/her death on the mages is very different, she clearly crossed the line there, and imo is reason enough to be relieved of command. If she simply had not told how she planned to lie about the whole stuff, imo, there would have been no justified reason for Cullen to step in.

[Wulfram]

Ahriman Dragonhand wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

In the Mage supporter ending, I find Cullen a bit strange. He's willing to go along with annullment of the circle, but balks at killing an apostate who has just killed a lot of his order? Really, ordering my PC's death is the most sensible thing Meredith does.

Obeying the Knight-Commander about annulment is his duty, wether he agrees or not it's Meredith's call.

However, ordering to kill Hawke after having told her troops she won't do so is dishonest at the very least. But most important, clearly stating in front of them that she will lie about it to blame his/her death on the mages is very different, she clearly crossed the line there, and imo is reason enough to be relieved of command. If she simply had not told how she planned to lie about the whole stuff, imo, there would have been no justified reason for Cullen to step in.

Blaming the Champion's death on the mages only applies if you've sided with her.  If you support the mages, why would she need to?  My Hawke chose to side against her, and killed Templars in doing so - the only outcomes I would expect are death, victory or flight. 

But after killing loads of innocent mages, killing the one who actually chose this fight is apparently "too far" for Cullen.  It makes no sense to me.  The whole notion of arresting the Champion seems pretty weird, actually.  What would that accomplish?  Hawke is hardly going to turn into a tame enchanter on a Templar leash, so the only option is lifetime imprisonment under extremely close watch - which is little better than death and much more dangerous - or being made tranquil, which is considered by many worse than death.

[cglasgow]

Wulfram wrote...

But after killing loads of innocent mages, killing the one who actually chose this fight is apparently "too far" for Cullen.  It makes no sense to me.

It does, but only if you have information that's only have available in the templar ending.

Cullen knows you aren't a blood mage, and he operates on the basis that even a Right of Annulment only allows you to kill known and suspected maleficar.  (This is how it differs from ordinary templar life, which only kills known maleficar; as witness Anders and his six escape attempts, instead of dying on the first one.)  The Champion isn't either, therefore they get a trial and a sentencing.  He's lawful like that.

[The Angry One]

Cullen is also operating on the Denerim guard-captain's "Attacking the main character is suicide. So I won't!" logic. 

[Lithuasil]

cglasgow wrote...

Cullen knows you aren't a blood mage,

He knows this on the basis, that he's only (personally) observed me and my lover committing blood magic two times at this point.

:|

[Ahriman Dragonhand]

Lithuasil wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Cullen knows you aren't a blood mage,

He knows this on the basis, that he's only (personally) observed me and my lover committing blood magic two times at this point.

:|

That is, imo, the biggest flaw in the entire game. I guess the story would never work as it was planned if you were acknowledge as blood mage, but it's disappointing that NPCs never ever notice when you use blood magic.

[The Angry One]

Ahriman Dragonhand wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

Cullen knows you aren't a blood mage,

He knows this on the basis, that he's only (personally) observed me and my lover committing blood magic two times at this point.

:|

That is, imo, the biggest flaw in the entire game. I guess the story would never work as it was planned if you were acknowledge as blood mage, but it's disappointing that NPCs never ever notice when you use blood magic.

It would be an opportunity to show blood magic is a tool like any other and not something that makes you inherently evil, but they keep missing it.

[Slugwood]

Does anyone else think Cullen's hair color was wrong?

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...
It would be an opportunity to show blood magic is a tool like any other and not something that makes you inherently evil, but they keep missing it.

It's one great big missed opportunity to unite gameplay and story, as opposed to giving us a good fantasy book and a second rate mmo :|

[sylvanaerie]

Come on, guys when has epilogue slides meant anything? In mine, Anders went to the Circle gave lecture and then came back to stay with the Wardens ever after.
And this was the game I imported...
Personally I never asked for autonomy for the Circle (cause I know that ain't gonna happen in Surana's lifetime) and so never got the slide for Cullen.
IT does address his issues in his codex for DA2, saying Gregoir sent him to serve under Knight Commander Meredith and I am guessing seeing just how bat**** crazy he could get if left unchecked mellowed him out in addition to having examples like Emeric and Thrask to see how it should be done.
Cullen was my favorite minor character in DA2, he still looks as yummy as his days in Ferelden and there were still his old hints of mage hatred/distaste but he's mellowed a lot in his views over the years. I liked that they had that much character development devoted to a minor character.
My last run through was on a Templar side ending and I squeed like a twilight groupie when he countermanded Meredith's order to kill the surrendering mages.
Boy matured a lot the past few years.

[Wulfram]

Anders wasn't killed after his escape attempts until he was suspected of killing Templars.  Then the Templars are pretty determined to get rid of him.

Note that the Chant of Light defines Maleficar as those "who have taken His gift and turned it against His children", which doesn't require that they be blood mages.  Even if not a blood mage, Hawke is still an apostate who has used his magic to murder templars by the score.

[Mayorin]

He was just scared away by Hawke's intense glare. And presence of her glowing elven lover who can rip hearts out with his bare hands definitely hasn't added him courage.

[Lithuasil]

Isn't a templar who's afraid of mages kind of in the wrong business?

[Arppis]

The Angry One wrote...

Cullen is also operating on the Denerim guard-captain's "Attacking the main character is suicide. So I won't!" logic. 

It's a fine strategy. Because it would be a suicide!

[Vukodlak]

They retconed his ending, he never murders the apprentices but is instead sent to Kirkwall by Gregor who believes Cullen can't be around the mages he blames for his torture.

[brushyourteeth]

I like to think that upon his transfer to Kirkwall he saw how freaking crazy Meredith was and something inside him said "you're on the path to become that and it does NOT look good."

[Vukodlak]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I like to think that upon his transfer to Kirkwall he saw how freaking crazy Meredith was and something inside him said "you're on the path to become that and it does NOT look good."

I agree, years under someone even more extreme then himself may have given him second thoughts.

[general numa19]

Y'all are insane...or maybe y'all don't have siblings. That little sissy kidnaps my sister and threatens me...he's a dead man on the spot. Sure, he'll be well-rounded...after I get done carving up some templar. If this douche is a party member in DA3, I'm hangin my hat up on the series.

[Lilunebrium]

Raltar wrote...

It's possible he goes on to do this after DA2. The ending in DAO doesn't say when he goes crazy. Just that he does. But it could happen 50 years after DAO for all we know.

I'm pretty sure npc banter in Witch Hunt mentions how he's sent to Greenfell (...or something. Can't remember the exact place name) to recover. It could obviously refer to Uldred, but might have something to do with the whole slaughtering-apprentice-thing as well, meaning it happened before DA2.

Think of it as rehabilitation. Or heck, perhaps it got retconned.

Modifié par Lilunebrium, 25 mars 2011 - 02:05 .

[triviumisgodly]

Haasth wrote...

Is this a consistency error, perhaps? 

In my Origins ending he went on a murderous rampage to kill random Mage apprentices like an absolute lunatic. 
And so here he is, Knight-Captain of Meredith. 

Now, the Templar do have a track record of recruiting murderous, mage slaughtering lunatics as their officers. But still, it feels a little odd just seeing him here... rather.. regular. Or is it just me that's a little itchy when around him? May just be because my Hawke's a maleficar though. 

 
In my opinion all the things you mentioned give him material to become a companion in a future DA  game. its kind of obivous really, but I wouldn't mind as he would have potential to be cool.

[nranola]

general numa19 wrote...

Y'all are insane...or maybe y'all don't have siblings. That little sissy kidnaps my sister and threatens me...he's a dead man on the spot. Sure, he'll be well-rounded...after I get done carving up some templar. If this douche is a party member in DA3, I'm hangin my hat up on the series.

Ever read her codex entry? And notice how she doesn't put up much of a fight even when you go aggressive on Cullen? Something tells me that Bethany surrendered herself to the Circle on her own.