81 réponses à ce sujet

[Arbalest7]

 I mean he's the one who decisively and actively changed the face of the world forever. All Hawke can do is passively join the cause or fail to clean up his mess. 

[cactusberry]

A dead crazy man isn't very important.

[MortalEngines]

Without the support and help of Hawke Anders couldn't have pulled it of. Also if not for Hawke, Meredith may not of been corrupted (because Varric and his brother may never of had the funding/support/map/luck to find the Lyrium Relic), Orsino may not of become so defiant, the Arishok may never have died/left and Viscount and his son may never had died.

Varric says it perfectly at the end of the game "Had Hawke not being there, none of this might of happened..."

Had Meredith or Orsino not had the support of the Champion, the war may never had started because neither would have the support they needed.

The whole reason Cassandra wanted the real story is to gauge how much of this was Hawke's fault.

Modifié par MortalEngines, 13 mars 2011 - 05:30 .

[schalafi]

Anders was, in my opinion, the best written character in the game. That being said, I still don't like my npcs being killed off!

[TJPags]

TheDarkRats wrote...

A dead crazy man isn't very important.

This,

Although MortalEngines has a very good point, too. 

[MortalEngines]

TJPags wrote...

TheDarkRats wrote...

A dead crazy man isn't very important.

This,

Although MortalEngines has a very good point, too. 

Well yeah, the fact that he's crazy, possibly dead and an idiot (Seriously, how could he think blowing up the Chantry was going to help Mages without villianizing them further) is also a big point .

[Teddie Sage]

He's still alive, I fled with him to destroy the Chantries.

[Arbalest7]

TheDarkRats wrote...

A dead crazy man isn't very important.

He could be as a symbol. To Libertarian mages he could be a hero. The templars have a figure to revile and use as proof of why their methods are neccessary. Plus any normal mage or citizens has been pretty much screwed over by him.

Also, MortalEngines you make great points it just annoys me that almost all of Hawke's achievements are essentially (un)happy accidents. I was hoping when Hawke was announced as the most important person in the world that we could have a more active role shaping Thedas.

[Caldain]

That was a big shocker for me. My FemHawke had a romance going with Anders but blowing up the Chantry was just a wee bit excessive. Way to turn the entire world against mages by blowing up a bunch of innocents. My Hawke is a good Andrastian and therefore shanked her former lover. It's all rather tragic.

I'm not sure I like the change in Anders, he was one of the few characters I liked in Awakening. To see him go all Bin Laden was just sad.

[packardbell]

Probably making him a martyr worsens the situation.

[TJPags]

packardbell wrote...

Probably making him a martyr worsens the situation.

Is the ending any different if you let him live?  Because it seems to me that the choice of whether to kill him had nothing to do with the choice of mage v templar.

[packardbell]

TJPags wrote...

packardbell wrote...

Probably making him a martyr worsens the situation.

Is the ending any different if you let him live?  Because it seems to me that the choice of whether to kill him had nothing to do with the choice of mage v templar.

Not that I've seen. But I'm talking about repercussions in a possible expansion/sequel. 

[TJPags]

packardbell wrote...

TJPags wrote...

packardbell wrote...

Probably making him a martyr worsens the situation.

Is the ending any different if you let him live?  Because it seems to me that the choice of whether to kill him had nothing to do with the choice of mage v templar.

Not that I've seen. But I'm talking about repercussions in a possible expansion/sequel. 

Ahhh.  Well.

I'm  not sure I'm interested in expansions/sequals at this point.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Caldain wrote...

That was a big shocker for me. My FemHawke had a romance going with Anders but blowing up the Chantry was just a wee bit excessive. Way to turn the entire world against mages by blowing up a bunch of innocents. My Hawke is a good Andrastian and therefore shanked her former lover. It's all rather tragic.

I'm not sure I like the change in Anders, he was one of the few characters I liked in Awakening. To see him go all Bin Laden was just sad.

Anders was my wingman in Awakening. Where I go he goes. To see him end up like this, is indeed sad. Considering what had happened to him with Justice and all, I see how and why he changed. There were still glimpses of his old self, but the worse the Templar/Mage situation had become, Anders lost more of himself to his idea of justice. Call it a tragic character development if you will.

[BaronIveagh]

TheDarkRats wrote...

A dead crazy man isn't very important.

Actually, a lot of crazy dead men are important.  Much of the world today in the real world was shaped by crazy dead men.

[TJPags]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Caldain wrote...

That was a big shocker for me. My FemHawke had a romance going with Anders but blowing up the Chantry was just a wee bit excessive. Way to turn the entire world against mages by blowing up a bunch of innocents. My Hawke is a good Andrastian and therefore shanked her former lover. It's all rather tragic.

I'm not sure I like the change in Anders, he was one of the few characters I liked in Awakening. To see him go all Bin Laden was just sad.

Anders was my wingman in Awakening. Where I go he goes. To see him end up like this, is indeed sad. Considering what had happened to him with Justice and all, I see how and why he changed. There were still glimpses of his old self, but the worse the Templar/Mage situation had become, Anders lost more of himself to his idea of justice. Call it a tragic character development if you will.

With regard to the Templar/Mage situation, did anyone else have the impression during the game that maybe he was the one agitating the mages in the first place?

[LobselVith8]

Hawke can be a champion for mages as an apostate who has gained reputation, power, and maintained his freedom. I'd imagine Hawke and Anders would be the two most important people in Thedas for defying the Chantry and fighting the templars to save the Kirkwall Circle mages. Giving the enslaved mages the inspiration to free themselves from their oppressors is likely to give Anders a high standing among many mages who wanted their freedom, but considering Hawke is right there with him (if you side with the mages and spare him) would also mean his legend would spread among the freed Circle mages. Hawke already cultivated a reputation in Tevinter, after all, long before the attack on the Chantry.

[LobselVith8]

TJPags, the enslaved don't need to be agitated when they're being raped, tortured, given a lobotomy, or killed by their oppressors.

[MortalEngines]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TJPags, the enslaved don't need to be agitated when they're being raped, tortured, given a lobotomy, or killed by their oppressors.

Other than ONE example, all the other supposed rape, torture and killing actions were rumours and most of the time that mages were killed, it turned out they were blood mages in the first place!

So, to TJPags, I did feel that, I felt that Anders had cooked up the underground mage group and the rumours himself to stir his plan into motion. I think he was manipulating Hawke from the start. 

[LobselVith8]

Anders was reacting to what was going on, not fabricating information. He was trying to stop the slavery of his people, after all.

[MortalEngines]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Anders was reacting to what was going on, not fabricating information. He was trying to stop the slavery of his people, after all.

Perhaps not fabricating, but exagerrating or building up tension and fear. We all know that Meredith WAS becoming corrupt and paraniod, but to be fair, my Hawke was able to speak reason into her most of the time apart from the ending (obviously). Anders wants a rebellion, no matter what, he's already envolped himself so much in his own perception of Justice he will do anything to get it, including tricking your Hawke. I wouldn't put it past him to stir up trouble in the Circle as well.

Those 3 missing mages? I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in it. But it's all heresay anyway.

Modifié par MortalEngines, 13 mars 2011 - 06:47 .

[Mustang678]

I took Anders with me. He made an extreme move that I didn't approve of but we still needed him for the war to come, and I consider the Chantry's evils on the mages to still be greater

[TJPags]

MortalEngines wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

TJPags, the enslaved don't need to be agitated when they're being raped, tortured, given a lobotomy, or killed by their oppressors.

Other than ONE example, all the other supposed rape, torture and killing actions were rumours and most of the time that mages were killed, it turned out they were blood mages in the first place!

So, to TJPags, I did feel that, I felt that Anders had cooked up the underground mage group and the rumours himself to stir his plan into motion. I think he was manipulating Hawke from the start. 

Exactly.

I kept hearing these rumors, I kept looking for confirmation, and other than Alrik, I found none.

I asked other Templars - including Cullen - about Alrik and the so-called Tranquil Solution and was told there was no such thing.  That Alrik was acting on his own.  I asked the Grand Cleric about the Tranquil Solution - she told me it was something that was suggested, and soundly rejected.

I really get the agitator vibe from Anders, got it early, and it really only grew every time I could find no evidence of this rumored abuse, and it got worse every time I ran into more groups of insane blood-mages.

Please, where is the evidence of this abuse?  I really wanted to find it - and still do!!!

[DoubleOhSolo]

**** would have went down regardless. Whether or not Anders blew up the Chantry, the war would have started. He just shortened the already short fuse.

At least, that's how I saw it.

[LobselVith8]

Considering that templars and mages were conspiring to overthrow Meredith, I doubt Anders concerns were imaginary. There was indeed a Templar Solution proposed, so why do you think there was no such thing when a templar was clearly pushing for it? Alrik wasn't alone when I was fighting him, so other templars were involved in the abuses, not just one. Meredith was also getting out of control. Even Meredith's own templars wanted to see her removed from her position as Knight-Commander.