138 réponses à ce sujet

[_Infiltrator]

Note the tags. I'm sure a lot of Xbox/PS3 people liked the game, and I can sympathize with that. The sequel is clearly tailored for a consoles this time around. But this is not just about PC vs console priorities - the game has many flaws that stretch across any platform. I have played the game for about 10 hours total, on a PC (played it at my friends' who was stupid enough to believe DA2 would be worth 40 euros).

This is not a review, just a list of 3 things why you should NOT buy this on the PC. If people keep buying unworthy games than it gives developers/publisher incentive to keep shoving us with them. Make a difference and say no to unifinished products.

Now, the list:

1. Blatant simplification and castration of the combat system. DA:O had a system akin to BG2 with the isometric view. It sure had problems, but it allowed tactical decisions, placement and worked well enough.

So what happenes in DA2? It turns into an action game with RPG elements. The PC is stripped of the isometric view, and you are forced with looking at the back of any given character from a close zoom. To add insult to injury, the tactical element is further brought down by introducing waves of enemies. How can you even make a decision when you don't know how many baddies are gonna jump down from rooftops, rise from the grave, or just plainly materialize in front of you (even normal guards/thugs).  Remember how you had to be careful of dangerous spells like fireball that could backfire on your entire party in DA:O? Well, worry no more! Now you can just walk your entire party in your own firestorm and let the waves of enemies melt in their own stupidity trying to reach you.

The almost non-existing tactical element is further diminished by the vanilla foes. No longer do you need to watch out from beastes overwhelming you, or mages going out of control. You just simply focus anything randomly and that's all there is to it. Mages typically just teleport around anyway.

The only good things about combat is that some of the animations are better (less wobble during fights) and there are more useful skills and the distribution is done better than in DA:O.

So basically you are conducting an action game where you are just thrown against X number of waves every Y meters. There's nothing you can premeditate about this. The good thing is, even if you mess up, chances are you can recover easily as "Hard" is hilariously easy.

2. The amount of recyicling done in the game is a true testimonial of how this is a rushed, half baked sorry excuse of an "RPG". Not only did they recycle half of the music tracks/weapon models/misc stuff from Origins, you LITERALLY have 3 dungeons that you crawl through from start to finish!  During my 10 hours of play, I've walked into the same dungeon for AT LEAST 6-7 times. I do NOT kid you, the same dungeon is being used over and over and over.

So, you got 3-4 generic dungones for every dungoen crawl, but you got this huge outside world right? Wrong. You're staying in the same city from start to finish (I haven't finished the game but I've read that's a fact). What more proof do you need that this game is rushed?

To further diminish the quality and artificially extend the gameplay, even the most stupid errand boy quests where you have to walk from one alley to another are met with waves of enemies that jump out of nowhere to slow you down. I thought you were better than this, Bioware.

3. The story and most of the characters are absolutely mediocre. Not once have I felt attached to almost any of the characters that felt like they were written in one days work. While there are characters that you normally connect to or not in any given game, the lack of coherence or emotion (due to mostly emotionless voice acting) leaves a very bad taste for most of the conversations you engage in during the gameplay. I don't mind hating characters, it's still an emotion and it means that the writers instilled me with it, but for the most part, characters looked like placeholders and I cared very little for whatever would happen to them.

"If we kill them, we can take their stuff" - says Isabela, about 5 times on average during any given battle.

As for the main plot, you don't have the drive to do anything, the sense of an impending antagonist is just not present. There's no anxiety of what's going to happen, the game feels like you're just building up and clearing your journal list. Remember when Imoen gets imprisoned? An immediate sense of responsability and a drive to free her is implanted in the player. Nothing like this is ever infused in the DA2 player. You just motorically do quests where you clear corrupt/crazed apostates/templars/thugs.

It's good that the character finally has a voice, but that comes down to the price of (surpirse) simplified conversation options, and the generic start compared to Origins. The skill wheel from ME is implemented and it's made further obvious by giving you guide icons on what each and every response means - god forbid you actually had to read the line and deduct the outcome yourself.



There are more things I could say that are in favor or against DA2, but, IMHO, they are minor compared to the big 3 that I mentioned. If you're a fan of mindless fast paced action combat, than this is for you. If you're a Old school PC RPG fan that was happy with Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age Origins and The Witcher, there's nothing interesting to see in DA:2.

[dumdumdujm]

Man-Giraffe-Dog is still coming! I've come here to warn you! Here's Proof

[Spam deleted]


Still Super Duper Serial.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 13 mars 2011 - 05:32 .

[ACDimps]

one thing that ticks me off is the "banter" dialogue, and even the convos in the quests.

"nice mountains...very mountainy"
"just create a sign saying dont do this. you can hit people with it."
"I like big boats I cannot lie"
"I want to be a dragon"
it's insulting.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Infiltrator wrote...



As for the main plot, you don't have the drive to do anything, the sense of an impending antagonist is just not present. There's no anxiety of what's going to happen, the game feels like you're just building up and clearing your journal list. Remember when Imoen gets imprisoned? An immediate sense of responsability and a drive to free her is implanted in the player. 

what. and though I felt no real rush because I enjoy taking my time, it can be said that there's a drive to get your family out of the slums equally as much.

[_Infiltrator]

ACDimps wrote...

one thing that ticks me off is the "banter" dialogue, and even the convos in the quests.

"nice mountains...very mountainy"
"just create a sign saying dont do this. you can hit people with it."
"I like big boats I cannot lie"
"I want to be a dragon"
it's insulting.

Agreed. Some of the lines appear to be written by 10 year olds at best. There's plenty of toilet humor to be heard elsewhere.

[Alex109222]

Infiltrator wrote...

ACDimps wrote...

one thing that ticks me off is the "banter" dialogue, and even the convos in the quests.

"nice mountains...very mountainy"
"just create a sign saying dont do this. you can hit people with it."
"I like big boats I cannot lie"
"I want to be a dragon"
it's insulting.

Agreed. Some of the lines appear to be written by 10 year olds at best. There's plenty of toilet humor to be heard elsewhere.

You can imagen my suprise when Isabelle was not written by a 14 year old.

[GregoriusMaximus]

The limited amount of items and gear and the inability to customise your companions is insanely annoying. I can't see how anyone could consider that "streamlining". It's just lazy.

[thatbwoyblu]

dumdumdujm wrote...

Man-Giraffe-Dog is still coming! I've come here to warn you! Here's Proof


[Spam deleted]

Still Super Duper Serial.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 13 mars 2011 - 05:32 .

[Drogo45]

Another PCer lamenting the need for change within the rpg genre.

[GregoriusMaximus]

Oh, and the "humour" in this game was really awful. I expected better from Bioware. And they didn't get rid of the stupidly unrealistic ****** from ME2

[GregoriusMaximus]

Drogo45 wrote...

Another PCer lamenting the need for change within the rpg genre.

Need for change? Last time I checked, the biggest selling game of all time was an RPG PC exclusive called World of Warcraft... and Origins made an absolute mint. So did all of Bioware's other games... 

Or do you like being poor and full of fail?

[_Infiltrator]

You know, I really have no arguments against the writers. I'm sure they are good and they can write a good character, but the suits must be pushing them to make everything funny/understandable to a wider audience, which in turn translates into toilet humor convos.

[Desolution]

ACDimps wrote...
"nice mountains...very mountainy"

That wasn't even the exact wording. It was there as a sort of "Awkwaaaard..." after somebody just spoke of how much they despised Merill. T'was more of a comedic change of subject, rather than some badly formed inuendo...

[AkiKishi]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Infiltrator wrote...



As for the main plot, you don't have the drive to do anything, the sense of an impending antagonist is just not present. There's no anxiety of what's going to happen, the game feels like you're just building up and clearing your journal list. Remember when Imoen gets imprisoned? An immediate sense of responsability and a drive to free her is implanted in the player. 

what. and though I felt no real rush because I enjoy taking my time, it can be said that there's a drive to get your family out of the slums equally as much.

This.

[Clammo]

Drogo45 wrote...

Another PCer lamenting the need for change within the rpg genre.

Yes, DA:O, Bioware's most successful game ever according to Rob Bartel (Bioware Dev) - obviously there was a need for drastic change....

[_Infiltrator]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

The limited amount of items and gear and the inability to customise your companions is insanely annoying. I can't see how anyone could consider that "streamlining". It's just lazy.

Yeah, that's even a minor thing in my book. Every sword/armor is just a generic icon, the game even lables junk for you. What's next, automatic equipping of the best possible item combination?

[ACDimps]

Desolution wrote...

ACDimps wrote...
"nice mountains...very mountainy"

That wasn't even the exact wording. It was there as a sort of "Awkwaaaard..." after somebody just spoke of how much they despised Merill. T'was more of a comedic change of subject, rather than some badly formed inuendo...

it was LOLSORANDUM humor. which reeks of something you'd read on fanfiction.net Sort of like all the GIGGLEQUEE stuff.

I think every one of Merrill's dialogue has her going, "Oh I shouldnt have siad that! I talk too much! I'm so akward and won't you think i'm kawaii? tehehehe"

[Frybread76]

GregoriusMaximus wrote...

The limited amount of items and gear and the inability to customise your companions is insanely annoying. I can't see how anyone could consider that "streamlining". It's just lazy.

This is the same thing that happened with ME2, which I agree is unfortunate for people like me who like to find loot and upgrade my PC and my followers.

[PSUHammer]

Isn't there a player reviews thread stickied up top for this stuff? Why are people making seperate review threads?

And, this game is far from an abomination. I would say that the last Leisure Suit Larry game or the old Raiders of the Lost Ark game for the Atari 2600 were "abominations." If you want to put this game in the same boat as those...then I see there is no pleasing you.

[mdelvalle]

@INF. I don't know whats more sad, that you are 100% right or that I'm hoping all the lazy work was so we can spend money on the MODS....

[v_ware]

I personally love the banter dialogue. I also love Will Ferrel comedies.

I love humor about absurd and stupid people who are seemingly retarded.

[Wizard of thay]

I like that you have taken the time to explain your reasons as to why you have issues with the game, a lot of people do not. and the comments you made are fair enough
but at the same time I just wanted to say that I am playing the game and have enjoyed it immensely so far, and whilst I can understand differences in taste, I thought I would reply to the comment.
however it should also be said that I haven't finished the game yet unlike yourself.

1) simplifaction of the combat system.

Yes combat system has been simplified in comparison to DAO.
but DAO did have issues with the combat and I think that Bioware took these onboard and maybe went to far.
further consider that most of their revenue now comes from consoles. in any business you have to tailor your business to the biggest Market. thus a more console based approach.
The camera is an issue and one that will continue I think with the console versions but I think Mike Laidlow mentions a possible change for PC (sorry I can't provide a link)
I would also mention that in the past all the Bioware games have been well supported with patches where we have given then sufficient and consise explanation of the issues.
hopefully that will happen here?
with regards the combat no longer being tactical, my understanding is that on Normal the game is now a piece of p£$s, but that the nightmare setting is one that provides a true challenge for gamers.
but again I do not know what difficulty level you are playing on.

2) recycling.

again not something tha has bothered me. and the recycling of areas is in comparison with other bioware games. If we compare to other comapies games I sure we can agree that size wise it is ok.
I also thought that the story is a far more localised adventure in a small area of the world, so repeating dungeons would make sense to a degree.

3) the only point that I totally disagree with you on is that of the characters. I felt the exact opposite and enjoyed how they were written. I felt the writing was a lot more subtle. (other than Fenris who will be killed at the earliest opportunity...)
but that again is a question of taste and a point we would never agree on

so far with the plot I have been enjoying it a lot.

but I can understand that this game is rather polarising.

[_Infiltrator]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Isn't there a player reviews thread stickied up top for this stuff? Why are people making seperate review threads?

And, this game is far from an abomination. I would say that the last Leisure Suit Larry game or the old Raiders of the Lost Ark game for the Atari 2600 were "abominations." If you want to put this game in the same boat as those...then I see there is no pleasing you.

As I've said this is not a review. It's a list of 3 things for why PC players shouldn't get the game. To review it I'd have to play it all and post a more elaborate opinion.

As for the nomenclature, I find this game is an abomination, not by itself, but compared to what it is compared to the predecessor.

As a stand alone game, I'd give it 6/10.



mdelvalle - 

Thanks, but I'd rather not waste money first then hope for the best, been there once.

Modifié par Infiltrator, 13 mars 2011 - 05:45 .

[drose4mvp]

 i have the game on ps3 and i am really enjoying it (like you said, the game is more enjoyable on a console).

although i understand teh gripes about reproduced environments, i don't think it takes away from the game THAT much. it would have been nice to have new environments and most likely than not, bioware will fix that up in the next dragon age. 

also, complaining about the wave of enemies and how it interferes with tactical play is stupid. you are basically complaining that since the same tactics in origins don't work well for 2, it's a flawed combat mechanic. just get used to the fact that more enemies will pop up as you progress through a battle and be ready for that.  and if the game is so easy on "hard" as you say it is, than it really shouldn't even be considered a problem. 

i also like that i don;t have to CONSTANTLy worry about the gear of my companions. it gives them their own personality saves me the trouble of having nto look at every single gear piece i find in case it might be slightly better than avelines helmet. it lets me focus more on my character and the entire game as  a whole.

[Kendaric Varkellen]

Clammo wrote...

Drogo45 wrote...

Another PCer lamenting the need for change within the rpg genre.

Yes, DA:O, Bioware's most successful game ever according to Rob Bartel (Bioware Dev) - obviously there was a need for drastic change....

[sarcasm]
But now it's so awesome! My rogue does ninja moves and lets enemies explode with his daggers and my two-handed warrior swings his sword like it's made of paper and makes the enemies explode. That's awesomeness pure! And all at the push of a button!
[/sarcasm]

Basically every change in DA2 was way overdone sadly, the combat pace, the combat animations, etc.