138 réponses à ce sujet

[revengeance]

I so far am extremely dissapointed in this game. DA origins had awesome locations and an overall epic feel. Also the darkspawn look so bad now.

[novaseeker]

A good post and a constructive one.

I find the game fun (PC gamer here), but agree with your critiques.

On one small point -- I actually preferred the humor/banter in DA:O. I realize that there was less variety in the banter/humor, but I think the humor was funnier, and the voice acting made it more enjoyable as well.

[Coik]

Manou1 wrote...

I don't understand the obsession people have with this isometric view system.. I never used it in DA:O and I got it on PC. Didn't need it. I guess its because I've played MMOs mostly so I'm used to the camera view.

I have to admit that it confuses me as well.  Going through Origins and the DLC, I think that the only times I used the isometic was once in Fort Drakken and then that one room in Golems with the eight golems and four huge pillars in about a 10 x 10 area.

[strangerism]

I am amazed at the sight of so many webbots on this forum, presenting the most ridiculous excuses "Tripwires were sometimes all but impossible for me to target in DAO normally, but easy to target with an overhead camera", trying to prevent the ship (DA2) from sinking.

[_Infiltrator]

Agreed with cosgamer. Much of the problem with the games today, DA2 included, is that people are willing to buy anything for the sake of the brand, or trend.

Found this picture that clearly demonstrates one of the strong points of "new" storytelling

http://www.gry-onlin...3/353080088.jpg

Modifié par Infiltrator, 13 mars 2011 - 08:12 .

[Cadaveth]

ACDimps wrote...

Cadaveth wrote...

Infiltrator wrote...

ACDimps wrote...

one thing that ticks me off is the "banter" dialogue, and even the convos in the quests.

"nice mountains...very mountainy"
"just create a sign saying dont do this. you can hit people with it."
"I like big boats I cannot lie"
"I want to be a dragon"
it's insulting.

Agreed. Some of the lines appear to be written by 10 year olds at best. There's plenty of toilet humor to be heard elsewhere.

Well there was/is this thread where DA2 writers have done some background stories for DA2 party members. I hoped that the writing wouldn't be so bad in the game itself but seems that I was wrong.

"The cave mouth is unbearably spooky, even for Sundermount, which you’d think was trying for some sort of spookiness medal."

"No doubt the sight of an elf in skintight armor, carrying a blade almost as large as himself, wasn’t a welcome sight. He got to his feet and noticed the surprisingly comely woman, dressed in a nightgown that revealed more of her cleavage than she no doubt expected, pressing against the wall"

It's a mix of a bad romance novel you'd find in a food store/CVS, and fanfiction.net

So that's why the writing felt familiar. Not that I read those...

[Kastagir]

OP:  What do you expect?  This was never going to be a PC game.  Bioware would have been better off (i.e. received less criticism) if they had just released it for the consoles, as this image makes their targeted audience hilariously (and painfully) obvious.

The shift in focus is unfortunate (though many have used far more vitriolic terms), but the poor quality of DA2 shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who bought the Awakening expansion.  Bioware introduced numerous regressions in the 1.03 and 1.04 patches and have since abandoned the game.  This is something a professional developer simply can not do and expect to succeed.

I expect Bioware will eventually admit the failure of DA2 (even if it only appeals to 50-60% of customers, that can't be considered a success).  It will likely be from someone like Gaider - someone not directly in control of (responsible for) the design and polish of the game.  Then one of two things will probably happen.  Bioware will learn from the experience and spend more time on PC games (perhaps the least likely of the two given EA's influence and Bioware's focus on ME-style games) or people will stop trusting the Bioware name for fulfilling PC games.

Modifié par Kastagir, 13 mars 2011 - 08:20 .

[BadGameIsBad]

JohnEpler wrote...

Bans handed out.

Homophobia is entirely unacceptable on these forums. If you're unable to respond to things in a respectful way, you will not be welcome here anymore.

So in this game marketed towards the "Call of Duty" crowd Bioware thought it was a good idea fill the game with as much homosexuality as possible. Let's not forget the average age of the Call of Duty crowd ranges from 8-15 years old.

Remember, according to JohnEpler, if you dont like this photo you should be banned from the forums.



Feel free to copy/paste this post into any topic you please. Bioware has shown it has no problem with copy/pasting with the release of DA2.

[al4mir]

DA2 is fine

[tonnactus]

Kendaric Varkellen wrote...

[sarcasm]
But now it's so awesome! My rogue does ninja moves and lets enemies explode with his daggers and my two-handed warrior swings his sword like it's made of paper and makes the enemies explode. That's awesomeness pure! And all at the push of a button!
[/sarcasm]

To be fair, Origins wasnt good in that either.("realism")

Marjoleine in noble clothes(and with fists) have more health then boss ogres.Did anyone complained about that?

Modifié par tonnactus, 13 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[strangerism]

Infiltrator wrote...

Agreed with cosgamer. Much of the problem with the games today, DA2 included, is that people are willing to buy anything for the sake of the brand, or trend.

Found this picture that clearly demonstrates one of the strong points of "new" storytelling

http://www.gry-onlin...3/353080088.jpg

indeed, the willingness of buying products out of thin air is because consumers are continuosly under the effect of psycological warfare from Corporate businesses, they sell you stuff you don't even need.   

15 years ago games entered the shelves and the consumer conscience once they were done, no marketing campain plans that upfront would strongly conditionate the sales. You bought games because of on the spot reviews and out of mouth reccomandation. Only the quality products would became sucessfull and premiate the talented artisans. 

[Jean de Valette]

Kastagir wrote...

OP:  What do you expect?  This was never going to be a PC game.  Bioware would have been better off (i.e. received less criticism) if they had just released it for the consoles, as this image makes their targeted audience hilariously (and painfully) obvious.

The shift in focus is unfortunate (though many have used far more vitriolic terms), but the poor quality of DA2 shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who bought the Awakening expansion.  Bioware introduced numerous regressions in the 1.03 and 1.04 patches and have since abandoned the game.  This is something a professional developer simply can not do and expect to succeed.

I expect Bioware will eventually admit the failure of DA2 (even if it only appeals to 50-60% of customers, that can't be considered a success).  It will likely be from someone like Gaider - someone not directly in control of (responsible for) the design and polish of the game.  Then one of two things will probably happen.  Bioware will learn from the experience and spend more time on PC games (perhaps the least likely of the two given EA's influence and Bioware's focus on ME-style games) or people will stop trusting the Bioware name for fulfilling PC games.

Patches are controlled by the publisher not with the developer. Because the publisher pays to get patches done. That's why today's games aren't patched much after release anymore.
The publisher is EA - which should tell you more then enough about the quality and frequency of patches.

I always thought that while Bioware wanted to go for consoles, they wouldn't forget their original fanbase on the PC. But I was wrong. They don't give a crap about PC gaming just like the rest of them. Probably because of the myth that the PC gaming market there is no profit to be made.

BG series sold well according to all accounts - so why Bioware chooses to forsake their original fanbase is beyond me. But I suppose this is EA's doing as well.

As for the pic in your post, the comment of one of the devs that pressing a button would bring the awesome, is even more embarising. And that disappoints me even more then Bioware forsaking their original fanbase. I mean, most gamers are slightly older then 12 these days. I don't care about the awesome if they mean mashing buttons, I want awesome in tactical combat, meaningful convo's and gripping stories.

Infiltrator wrote...

Agreed with cosgamer. Much of the problem with the games today, DA2 included, is that people are willing to buy anything for the sake of the brand, or trend.

Found this picture that clearly demonstrates one of the strong points of "new" storytelling

http://www.gry-onlin...3/353080088.jpg

Heh, that pic sumarizes what is wrong with today's RPGs. Guess EA thinks people don't like to read anymore. Such a shame. Dear EA, I am capable of reading and quite like doing so.

[_Infiltrator]

Kastagir wrote...

OP:  What do you expect?  This was never going to be a PC game.  Bioware would have been better off (i.e. received less criticism) if they had just released it for the consoles, as this image makes their targeted audience hilariously (and painfully) obvious.

The shift in focus is unfortunate (though many have used far more vitriolic terms), but the poor quality of DA2 shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who bought the Awakening expansion.  Bioware introduced numerous regressions in the 1.03 and 1.04 patches and have since abandoned the game.  This is something a professional developer simply can not do and expect to succeed.

I expect Bioware will eventually admit the failure of DA2 (even if it only appeals to 50-60% of customers, that can't be considered a success).  It will likely be from someone like Gaider - someone not directly in control of (responsible for) the design and polish of the game.  Then one of two things will probably happen.  Bioware will learn from the experience and spend more time on PC games (perhaps the least likely of the two given EA's influence and Bioware's focus on ME-style games) or people will stop trusting the Bioware name for fulfilling PC games.

I agree with your post, although I never said I expected any better. From the early days of announcement I could tell this game was going down the drain. I only thought Bioware would have more self respect than to recycle the same dungeon 20 times.

[strangerism]

tonnactus wrote...

Kendaric Varkellen wrote...

[sarcasm]
But now it's so awesome! My rogue does ninja moves and lets enemies explode with his daggers and my two-handed warrior swings his sword like it's made of paper and makes the enemies explode. That's awesomeness pure! And all at the push of a button!
[/sarcasm]

To be fair, Origins wasnt good in that either.("realism")

Marjoleine in noble clothes(and with fists) have more health then boss ogres.Did anyone complained about that?

Suspension of disbelief  do you know what is it?
the idea of an eroic party fighting countless enemies and huge monsters is to give a sense of epicness to the tale you are telling, one of the staple of the fantasy genre. Having ninjas exploding enemies with daggers doesnt make it epic rather makes it silly, cheap, flashy, splatterish, ketchup. On the contrary of subtle, evocative, immersive, etc. 
 

[LifePincher]

I've read enough. Not just this forum, but many others. Will not be buying this game for pc.
Going to play the original again. Shame Shame EA!

[strangerism]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

According to the reviews, the people that hate DA2 are a minority.

According to my life experience, readings and studies, wise and enlighted people have always been a minority

[CenturyCrow]

I don't consider it an abomination, but I agree with several of your points.

I see a game that was clearly thought out with a lot of improvements and streamlining; but it also lost quite a few things in the transition. Because of the camera change (probably for the consoles), the PC has suffered - it's extremely difficult to play 'tactically' in many areas. Works fine in wide open large areas - doorways, corridors, caves, along side of anything makes it useless especially with all the spell effects going on.

With some of the bugs I'm encountering, I find pressing a button means getting annoyed and frustrated; nowhere have I seen 'awesome.'  Maybe I should have got the PS3 version.

Plus the threat of whatever Sony's SecuRom installed, I'll need to format the drive and re-install Windows again - ironically, I just did before installing DA2.

I'll try and get a few full plays in before Witcher 2 (without DRM) arrives. I purchased a lot of DLC for ME and Dragon Age, but with the unpatched Awakenings, I think EA's focus will be on DA3 not fixing anything in DA2.

You win EA; you got my money this time; I got DRM and an almost excellent game. A month or two and it probably would have been the game many of us were expecting and hoping for...

[LifePincher]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

According to the reviews, the people that hate DA2 are a minority.

Well, there seems to be many a Minority then

[4120u]

This thread is an abomination.

And after seeing the Torment - DA2 storytelling picture for like the hundreth time today, I just want to say this.

Torment was, and still is, one of the best RPG games ever made. No going around that, most likely still my favourite game. Alongside with Mass Effect 1&2, BG1&2, NWN1, The Witcher, Dragon Age: Origins and yes, Dragon Age 2.

If I remember correctly, Torment had something like 2,000,000 words written in to the game dialogue, in the age without FULLY voice acted RPG's, you didn't hear the Nameless One say anything in the dialogue ( do correct me if I'm wrong) and only the big bad villains ever spoke to you with a voice, but only for a few lines at that.

Would you have liked if they had gone "back to their roots" and say, "**** it, we're not doing any voice acting, granted it's the year 2011, but just **** it".

Would you have wanted to wait for the game many more years (presumably) doing the voice acting of millions of words, dozens of choices per major dialogue, I would've, but it's not realistic.

I loved the game, I loved the characters and even the story. My only gripe is the reused dungeons, but after a while, I really didn't pay that much attention to it, I was too busy hacking people with them daggers yo and waiting for the next companion quest.

Granted, the game could've been better, but what game couldn't have?

Modifié par 4120u, 13 mars 2011 - 09:24 .

[Schurge]

Alex109222 wrote...

Infiltrator wrote...

ACDimps wrote...

one thing that ticks me off is the "banter" dialogue, and even the convos in the quests.

"nice mountains...very mountainy"
"just create a sign saying dont do this. you can hit people with it."
"I like big boats I cannot lie"
"I want to be a dragon"
it's insulting.

Agreed. Some of the lines appear to be written by 10 year olds at best. There's plenty of toilet humor to be heard elsewhere.

You can imagen my suprise when Isabelle was not written by a 14 year old.

Isabella had alot more depth to her than I expected (especially since PC Gamer painted her as just being a ****). Though I approached her not wanting to like her she ended up becoming my favorite companion.

Modifié par Schurge, 13 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[Duke Mathias]

Infiltrator: To add insult to injury, the game is only half as long as DAO. That was what upset me the most. I can live with the new combat system, the recycled dungeons (even though they were annoying), the lame companions and the mediocre story if only the game had been at least as long as DAO. This game would have been good if it had been an expansion to DAO. It certainly feels like a prologue to DA2.

[strangerism]

4120u wrote...

This thread is an abomination.

And after seeing the Torment - DA2 storytelling picture for like the hundreth time today, I just want to say this.

Torment was, and still is, one of the best RPG games ever made. No going around that, most likely still my favourite game. Alongside with Mass Effect 1&2, BG1&2, NWN1, The Witcher, Dragon Age: Origins and yes, Dragon Age 2.

If I remember correctly, Torment had something like 2,000,000 words written in to the game dialogue, in the age without FULLY voice acted RPG's, you didn't hear the Nameless One say anything in the dialogue ( do correct me if I'm wrong) and only the big bad villains ever spoke to you with a voice, but only for a few lines at that.

Would you have liked if they had gone "back to their roots" and say, "**** it, we're not doing any voice acting, granted it's the year 2011, but just **** it".

Would you have wanted to wait for the game many more years (presumably) doing the voice acting of millions of words, dozens of choices per major dialogue, I would've, but it's not realistic.

I loved the game, I loved the characters and even the story. My only gripe is the reused dungeons, but after a while, I really didn't pay that much attention to it, I was too busy hacking people with them daggers yo and waiting for the next companion quest.

Granted, the game could've been better, but what game couldn't have?

Would you rather spend your best time reading an interesting story and exploit your immagination or look at  some manichines in the screen acting as in a soap opera fully voiced?

then based on your arguments do you think was it worth to write all those pages (and thousands of words) to tell a story like the Lord of the Rings?

Is really necessary to have puppets on the screen with sprouting flat lines just because today is 2011? Does look like involution to me. More TVGames instead of Videogames?  

Modifié par strangerism, 13 mars 2011 - 10:05 .

[_Infiltrator]

strangerism wrote...

4120u wrote...

This thread is an abomination.

And after seeing the Torment - DA2 storytelling picture for like the hundreth time today, I just want to say this.

Torment was, and still is, one of the best RPG games ever made. No going around that, most likely still my favourite game. Alongside with Mass Effect 1&2, BG1&2, NWN1, The Witcher, Dragon Age: Origins and yes, Dragon Age 2.

If I remember correctly, Torment had something like 2,000,000 words written in to the game dialogue, in the age without FULLY voice acted RPG's, you didn't hear the Nameless One say anything in the dialogue ( do correct me if I'm wrong) and only the big bad villains ever spoke to you with a voice, but only for a few lines at that.

Would you have liked if they had gone "back to their roots" and say, "**** it, we're not doing any voice acting, granted it's the year 2011, but just **** it".

Would you have wanted to wait for the game many more years (presumably) doing the voice acting of millions of words, dozens of choices per major dialogue, I would've, but it's not realistic.

I loved the game, I loved the characters and even the story. My only gripe is the reused dungeons, but after a while, I really didn't pay that much attention to it, I was too busy hacking people with them daggers yo and waiting for the next companion quest.

Granted, the game could've been better, but what game couldn't have?

Would you rather spend your best time reading an interesting story and exploit your immagination or look at  some manichines in the screen acting as in a soap opera fully voiced?

then based on your arguments do you think was it worth to write all those pages (and thousands of words) to tell a story like the Lord of the Rings?

Is really necessary to have puppets on the screen with sprouting flat lines just because today is 2011? Does look like involution to me. More TVGames instead of Videogames?  

Absolutely agree. The imagination is a powerful tool, but as books it is declining as humanity shifts into a world where the consumer is milked with the modern tools the industry is using to propel itself - tools that leave any form of imagination out of the picture. I'd rather have 1000s of speechless lines that are well written than an empty husk of an audio stream some people call acting.

Modifié par Infiltrator, 13 mars 2011 - 11:49 .