179 réponses à ce sujet

[hiagain]

Man-Giraffe-Dog has been spotted! It's all over the news! MGD is the greatest threat to mankind ever and I've come

here to warn you! Here's Proof (person who took the picture was brutally killed 5 seconds after taking it)



Still Super Duper Serial.

[Deadmac]

Razcalking1978 wrote...
Oh, please. You really think that the protangonist saying the lines instead of a line of text appearing changes it from an RPG to a non-RPG? That makes no sense at all, and really just looks like you grasping at straws. Dragon Age 2 is a great example of an RPG. YOU decide how your character will respond to things, and Hawke's decisions actually affect the game world unlike all of the previous examples. Hearing Hawke speak has nothing to do with anything.

I have played table-top rpgs for twenty years.

Look at the words you are using. "Hawke's decisions" You have already seperated yourself from the role. When I was playing the game "Dragon Age: Origins", I was making decisions on how 'I' wanted my character to manipulate the world. I 'the Warden' was in complete control over my role as 'the Warden'. Within the game "Dragon Age II", you decide how Hawke 'the puppet' responds to the world. Big difference in mindset.

[Deadmac]

Oops double posted.

Modifié par Deadmac, 13 mars 2011 - 07:13 .

[Darji]

hiagain wrote...

Man-Giraffe-Dog has been spotted! It's all over the news! MGD is the greatest threat to mankind ever and I've come

here to warn you! Here's Proof (person who took the picture was brutally killed 5 seconds after taking it)



Still Super Duper Serial.

So thats your answer?  WOW i thought people here actually are still mature eough to have nice disscusions but that is all?  Why not g back to 4chan?

[Melness]

Brenus wrote...

OP never played Baldur's Gate, or DAO in top down view.

Baldur's Gate was a kite fest.

[Darji]

Melness wrote...

Brenus wrote...

OP never played Baldur's Gate, or DAO in top down view.

Baldur's Gate was a kite fest.

What? I am sorry but i never used kiteing in a Baldurs gate game^^

Modifié par Darji, 13 mars 2011 - 07:14 .

[SlurpinTaxt]

hiagain wrote...

Man-Giraffe-Dog has been spotted! It's all over the news! MGD is the greatest threat to mankind ever and I've come


Still Super Duper Serial.

Reported, you will be BALEETED

[Melness]

Darji wrote...

Melness wrote...

Brenus wrote...

OP never played Baldur's Gate, or DAO in top down view.

Baldur's Gate was a kite fest.

What? I am sorry but i never used kiteing in a Baldurs gate game^^

Oh it was very effective. Especially on mosters that changed targets a lot.

Very funny to see a ghast surrounded by 5 ranged characters, not knowing where to go, unable to use its cursed fang.

[Brenus]

Melness wrote...

Brenus wrote...

OP never played Baldur's Gate, or DAO in top down view.

Baldur's Gate was a kite fest.

No it wasnt.

Melness wrote...

Oh it was very effective. Especially on mosters that changed targets a lot.

Very funny to see a ghast surrounded by 5 ranged characters, not knowing where to go, unable to use its cursed fang.

Just because you played the game like a lamer, doesnt make it a kite fest.

Modifié par Brenus, 13 mars 2011 - 07:17 .

[Kanjii9446]

You see, it prolly goes like this... Alot of ppl says it's hack and slash because they play on casual or normal, as soon as you reach hard or nightmare i becomes very tactical.

People just makes their opinion out from the normal mod, since that's what most ppl pick. Go play hard or nightmare if u think it's way to easy. Simple as that

[SlurpinTaxt]

Deadmac wrote...

Razcalking1978 wrote...
Oh, please. You really think that the protangonist saying the lines instead of a line of text appearing changes it from an RPG to a non-RPG? That makes no sense at all, and really just looks like you grasping at straws. Dragon Age 2 is a great example of an RPG. YOU decide how your character will respond to things, and Hawke's decisions actually affect the game world unlike all of the previous examples. Hearing Hawke speak has nothing to do with anything.

I have played table-top rpgs for twenty years.

Look at the words you are using. "Hawke's decisions" You have already seperated yourself from the role. When I was playing the game "Dragon Age: Origins", I was making decisions on how 'I' wanted my character to manipulate the world. I 'the Warden' was in complete control over my role as 'the Warden'. Within the game "Dragon Age II", you decide how Hawke 'the puppet' responds to the world. Big difference in mindset.

And the story sucks too. I honestly wouldnt mind the hawke aspect of it if there was a gripping and intelligible story. I havent played Origins in ages, but i still remember siding with the werewolves and slaying that smug elf, the dialogue in that particular arc was top notch, the circle of magi ranks up there as well.

Ive already forgotten basically everything from DA2, another rpg i had to force myself to finish, the other  being ME2. Its a disturbing trend

[astrallite]

Adeph wrote...

What does make an RPG then?

An RPG is exclusively game that starts with Ultima or is made by Bioware...according to the veterans in this forum.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Brenus wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Role-playing video games use much of the same terminology, settings and game mechanics as early pen-and-paper role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons.[2] Generally, the player controls a small number of game characters, usually called a party, and achieves victory by completing a series of quests and reaching the conclusion of a central storyline. Players explore a game world, while solving puzzles and engaging in tactical combat. 

Point 1 - Dragon Age 2 does use a rule system similar to D&D
Point 2 - The player does control a small number of game characters
Point 3 - The victory conditions are completing a series of quests to reach the conclusion of a cental storyline 
Point 4 - you might have a point with the tactical combat but then I remember Baldur's gate not needing tactical thinking on lower dificulties.

Would you count games like Final Fantasy to be an RPG?

Yes, I played final fantasy 8 and I was exploring a gameworld and engaging in tactical turn based combat. I loved it, but thats a console RPG, not really a PC one, even though it was ported to the PC.

1 - DA2 is nothing like D&D (DAO was pretty close, but I cant see the same standard in DA2).
2 - You cant change any of your parties armor or weapons, you dont have control over them.
3 - The victory conditions seem pretty linear, with no option to go off side questing for many hourse like in other RPGs
4 - DA2 is hack n slash, Baldur's Gate needed plenty of tactical thinking regardless of what you remember about it.

1- DA2 uses the same rule system (slightly modified) as DA:O it is just hidden from view
2- the only thing you can't change is their armour, you have the same amount of control over them in DA:O
3- The victory conditions for baldur's gate are pretty linear, during my first playthrough of DA2 I often wandered off of the main storyline to do side quests
4- I was playing Baldur's Gate just before DA2 was released on normal and all I needed to to was click on who I wanted to attack, thats not tactical thinking.

Also you could say that DA2 is a console RPG that was ported to PC

[Melness]

Brenus wrote...

Melness wrote...

Brenus wrote...

OP never played Baldur's Gate, or DAO in top down view.

Baldur's Gate was a kite fest.

No it wasnt.

Melness wrote...

Oh it was very effective. Especially on mosters that changed targets a lot.

Very funny to see a ghast surrounded by 5 ranged characters, not knowing where to go, unable to use its cursed fang.

Just because you played the game like a lamer, doesnt make it a kite fest.

Perhaps I shouldn't have tackled Baldur's Gate on the hardest difficulty from the get-go, but a warrior sword and board could be easily one-shotted until some levels into the game. Still have bad memories from that first belt-fetished Ogre until I equipped both Jaheira and Khalid with a sling.

Interestingly, people complain about the capacity of kiting in DA2. But often forget that it was always a very effective tactic in both Baldur's Gate AND Dragon Age: Origins. And is hardly the only cheesy strategy in BG either.

Not that kiting made Baldur's Gate incredibly easy though, you'd often have to divide your group and end up dividing the enemy too. Greatly increasing the area required for hitting and running, ending up bringing more monsters into the fray and all that jazz.

Modifié par Melness, 13 mars 2011 - 07:25 .

[Darji]

Melness wrote...

Darji wrote...

Melness wrote...

Brenus wrote...

OP never played Baldur's Gate, or DAO in top down view.

Baldur's Gate was a kite fest.

What? I am sorry but i never used kiteing in a Baldurs gate game^^

Oh it was very effective. Especially on mosters that changed targets a lot.

Very funny to see a ghast surrounded by 5 ranged characters, not knowing where to go, unable to use its cursed fang.

Yeah you maybe can play it like that but you dont need to. In DA2 on the other hand its the only way for many fights

[Ascorius]

It depends on your view of "tactical". I played through it on nightmare and did not find it tactical. I found the challenge on nightmare to be the same kind of challenge as in a Pacman game... a Pacmen game.

Joking a side god of war also has tactics to some degree (positioning, using right abilites at the right time), but its still called a buttonmasher and this often feels a lot more like god of war than a crpg. If you want to nitpick nearly all games has some form of tactical side to it, but in its core I think its kind of weak to call this a tactical game (on any difficulty).

[AlanC9]

Razcalking1978 wrote...
Oh, please. You really think that the protangonist saying the lines instead of a line of text appearing changes it from an RPG to a non-RPG? That makes no sense at all, and really just looks like you grasping at straws. Dragon Age 2 is a great example of an RPG. YOU decide how your character will respond to things, and Hawke's decisions actually affect the game world unlike all of the previous examples. Hearing Hawke speak has nothing to do with anything.

It's not grasping at straws, it's his personal feelings. Which Deadmac did say were only that.

I'm an old PnP player too, and I don't agree with him. But just because we think a voiced protaginist works fine does not mean that it works fine for every single RPG player in the world.

[0x30A88]

Having a tank was a neccesity and I had to go down to casual because I forgot to bring Aveline in a quest. The game is not too easy, though I found Normal to be challanging in Origins, so I guess my opinion is rather invalid for those who has been into the genre since even before DA was planned.

Cosgamer, DA2 is an RPG, the wiki-page you directed me to also stated the genre is rather loosely defines. There's no strict canon. DA2 puts you in a role in a world, while having RPG elemts like experience, leveling and stratergy -- yes, I had to manage the party even on normal...though I'm no ace at gaming.

I hate the wave system, it's not inheretly bad, but overused. Bioware, you need at least three years!

Modifié par Gisle Aune, 13 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[Melness]

Darji wrote...

Yeah you maybe can play it like that but you dont need to. In DA2 on the other hand its the only way for many fights

I beg to differ. I can't imagine other way to get through a group of dire wolves on the beginning with only Imoen and another ranged character.

In the end-game though, kiting is a way to make the game more interactive. I'd say things get really easy after the Cloakwood Mines, with a Minsc that one-shots monsters like crazy and all that stuff.

[Brenus]

cosgamer wrote...

The Witcher, as it's been mentioned, was an action rpg (meaning it leans towards more action than role playing). DA:O was almost a traditional rpg. DA 2 is closer to the Witcher than DA:O in hack-and-slash (that in no way reflects on the superior game playing experience of the Witcher).

This will confuse some of you. The reason people are incensed over DA 2 is that we were promised a quality, more traditional rpg experience and then it turns out they lied (as they did with DRM and some other things), making it more action adventure and leaving out what made DA:O special to begin with.

Bioware has started down the long and depressing path of offering subpar games at high prices, and has traded on its reputation to do so.

What depresses me most of all is, most of you people who claim DA 2 is an RPG don't even know what an RPG is.

This will get you started, though I expect most of you will be unable to get the differences, both subtle and in your face, between action RPG and traditional RPG:

http://en.wikipedia....le-playing_game

Yes, it will actually require you to read that, then read some more and use your brain.

I've already quoted from that link, you can already see the defensive arguments for DA2 in this thread. Apparantly, BG was a kite fest, and DA2 is a deep tactical RPG.

[Hiei987]

The mainstream audience of RPGs these days wants fast-paced combat rather than slow tactical style. Like any company Bioware will support its biggest player base. People who have too much of a problem with it have to simply get over it or stop playing. While the game did take a few steps back from Origins, combat was not one of them.

[Brenus]

Melness wrote...

Darji wrote...

Yeah you maybe can play it like that but you dont need to. In DA2 on the other hand its the only way for many fights

I beg to differ. I can't imagine other way to get through a group of dire wolves on the beginning with only Imoen and another ranged character.

In the end-game though, kiting is a way to make the game more interactive. I'd say things get really easy after the Cloakwood Mines, with a Minsc that one-shots monsters like crazy and all that stuff.

I managed just fine without kite festing BG1.

I cant remember coming across dire wolfs before I already had a party consisting of My character, Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, and optionally Xzar and Monatron.

Also, the idea is that you level up a bit before fighting difficult enemies.

Modifié par Brenus, 13 mars 2011 - 07:33 .

[Foolsfolly]

I've never lied. I like the gameplay. I hate the lack of a story.

[TJSolo]

"1- DA2 uses the same rule system (slightly modified) as DA:O it is just hidden from view"
Removing all saves from spells and talents, resetting all cooldowns at the end of a fight, and giving a 1 to 1 bonus to each point placed into attributes are not just slightly modified DnD rules.

"2- the only thing you can't change is their armour, you have the same amount of control over them in DA:O"
I can't get Fenris to pick up a sword and shield or Izzy to even touch a bow.

I have no comment for the BG stuff because I never played it.