179 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Baldurs Gate 1 + 2, The Elder Scrolls series, and the Ultima series are a few examples of RPGs.

DA2 is not anything the same.

Role-playing video games use much of the same terminology, settings and game mechanics as early pen-and-paper role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons.[2] Generally, the player controls a small number of game characters, usually called a party, and achieves victory by completing a series of quests and reaching the conclusion of a central storyline. Players explore a game world, while solving puzzles and engaging in tactical combat. 

Please, TES contains as much combat as DA2. It doesn't contain any tactics either or party members either. RPG's are about creating a character, leveling him/her up and even developing a personality for them as well as their own goals and beliefs. It's called role playing because you're creating a fictional character and playing as them. In DA2, we can choose Hawke's beliefs, gender, first name, who she/he hates and what he/she likes. That's role playing because we are still creating a character.

Yes under his definition the Elder scrolls games aren't rpgs nor are the Gothic games.

[BadGameIsBad]

JohnEpler wrote...

Bans handed out.

Homophobia is entirely unacceptable on these forums. If you're unable to respond to things in a respectful way, you will not be welcome here anymore.

So in this game marketed towards the "Call of Duty" crowd Bioware thought it was a good idea fill the game with as much homosexuality as possible. Let's not forget the average age of the Call of Duty crowd ranges from 8-15 years old.

Remember, according to JohnEpler, if you dont like this photo you should be banned from the forums.



Feel free to copy/paste this post into any topic you please. Bioware has shown it has no problem with copy/pasting with the release of DA2.

Smooth move Bioware. Very well thought out and responsible of you.

[Brenus]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Please, TES contains as much combat as DA2. It doesn't contain any tactics either or party members either. RPG's are about creating a character, leveling him/her up and even developing a personality for them as well as their own goals and beliefs. It's called role playing because you're creating a fictional character and playing as them. In DA2, we can choose Hawke's beliefs, gender, first name, who she/he hates and what he/she likes. That's role playing because we are still creating a character.

TES contains a hugely open explorable world, and fantastic character customisation. DA2 doesnt have either.

What all the other games lack in any one area, they more than make up for it ina another.

DA2 does not meet the criteria for a good PC RPG in ANY area.

[F-C]

personally i just think the OP is funny, and reminds me of how in DAO there were these forum posters who thought the game was soo hard...

and you could practically walk through the game effortlessly if you had 2 brain cells to rub together.


yeah, the OP reminds me of that.
"its not hack 'n slash, its too hard!!'

yeah, its ok bucky, i know ive come to the realization a lot of players are just bad.

[Brenus]

Morroian wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Baldurs Gate 1 + 2, The Elder Scrolls series, and the Ultima series are a few examples of RPGs.

DA2 is not anything the same.

Role-playing video games use much of the same terminology, settings and game mechanics as early pen-and-paper role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons.[2] Generally, the player controls a small number of game characters, usually called a party, and achieves victory by completing a series of quests and reaching the conclusion of a central storyline. Players explore a game world, while solving puzzles and engaging in tactical combat. 

Please, TES contains as much combat as DA2. It doesn't contain any tactics either or party members either. RPG's are about creating a character, leveling him/her up and even developing a personality for them as well as their own goals and beliefs. It's called role playing because you're creating a fictional character and playing as them. In DA2, we can choose Hawke's beliefs, gender, first name, who she/he hates and what he/she likes. That's role playing because we are still creating a character.

Yes under his definition the Elder scrolls games aren't rpgs nor are the Gothic games.

Yes they are. You simply dont understand the definition. I explained it in my last post, either comprehend it or stop being daft.

[Grovermancer]

Morroian wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

All of which destroys realism.  Which was at the heart of DAO in general, and backed by the combat; a gritty, dire, real world, w/ rough, effortful, realistic-looking combat.

So it was realistic in DAO to dual wield a pair of longswords like they weighed nothing? All the flicker and shadow moves of rogues were realistic?

No.  Which is why I used qualifiers like "most" in my thread on the topic.

[Melness]

Grovermancer wrote...

Melness wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

(so what if you occasionally pause and click a power icon -- so what?  That doesn't change every other aspect of the combat)

If I got it right, your post only complains about animations. Well, if every other aspect of combat equals to the animations... then some legendary classics really sucked.

Especially the tabletop games. Their graphics aren't even consistent over every player of the campaign, which sees something different and quite potentially unrealistic! The Horror!

"Only" the combat animations?  Ie, combat.

Unrealistic combat moves.  Unrealistic in every way.  Weapons that are apparently weightless.  Hyper-fast movements that can not come from any human body.  Flashy follow-throughs.  Leaping around.  Not real, proper use of body in moves.  Moving so fast, it's hard to see what's even happening.

All of which destroys realism.  Which was at the heart of DAO in general, and backed by the combat; a gritty, dire, real world, w/ rough, effortful, realistic-looking combat.

In DA2, the combat looks like it belongs in God of Dante's Castlevania Inferno War universe.

Code =/= Data

[flushfire]

Elton John is dead wrote...
The Witcher is an action RPG with POOR skill trees and no stat points. You can't control what you want Geralt to be and all builds turn out the same in the end anyway. Combat is based on dodging and combat styles not anything else. You can't choose Geralt's religion, personality and he's always horny and has a boner. It's an action RPG.

DA2 is an action RPG with "integrated" skills and superficial stat points. You can't control what you want Hawke to be and all classes have the same ability to AoE, CC and positioning does not matter anyway. Combat is based on reloading to see what waves will spawn and kiting bosses and nothing else. You can't choose Hawke's race, you are
restricted to being a diplomat, a juvenile arse or a failed comedian in conversations which in the end don't really matter anyway since you cannot advance the "plot" if you do not accept what the game wants you to and female hawke is manlier than male hawke, which is less of a man compared to Geralt. It's an action RPG.

Modifié par flushfire, 13 mars 2011 - 08:34 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Brenus wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Please, TES contains as much combat as DA2. It doesn't contain any tactics either or party members either. RPG's are about creating a character, leveling him/her up and even developing a personality for them as well as their own goals and beliefs. It's called role playing because you're creating a fictional character and playing as them. In DA2, we can choose Hawke's beliefs, gender, first name, who she/he hates and what he/she likes. That's role playing because we are still creating a character.

TES contains a hugely open explorable world, and fantastic character customisation. DA2 doesnt have either.

What all the other games lack in any one area, they more than make up for it ina another.

DA2 does not meet the criteria for a good PC RPG in ANY area.

Erm, no. GTA contains a huge open world but is not an RPG. San Adreas contains character customization but is not an RPG. TES dialogue is just "i so daft, what does this mean?" every dialogue of the PC is just questions, you can't build a personality. DA2 contains better dialogue where you build Hawke's personality and it contains the same statistics as TES does. Strength, magic, constitution and so on.

It's a better RPG than TES which you can finish at lv 1.

[Legbiter]

My friend whines alot about the lack of tactics. Of course his idea of tactics is to charge right in and spam healing pots if he finds himself in over his head. Since that's no longer as viable a strategy in DA II, it's broken in his view.

[F-C]

why do people still talk about TES like it was a good game?

run against a wall to increase athletics!! LEET!
mash your spacebar 100,000 times to increase acrobatics!! LEET!


id rather be stabbed with a rusty spoon than ever see another game like TES.

[Eternal Phoenix]

flushfire wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
The Witcher is an action RPG with POOR skill trees and no stat points. You can't control what you want Geralt to be and all builds turn out the same in the end anyway. Combat is based on dodging and combat styles not anything else. You can't choose Geralt's religion, personality and he's always horny and has a boner. It's an action RPG.

DA2 is an action RPG with "integrated" skills and superficial stat
points. You can't control what you want Hawke to be and all classes have
the same ability to AoE, CC and positioning does not matter anyway.
Combat is based on reloading to see what waves will spawn and kiting
bosses and nothing else. You can't choose Hawke's race, you are
restricted to being a diplomat, an **** or a failed comedian in
conversations which in the end don't really matter anyway since you
cannot advance the "plot" if you do not accept what the game wants you
to and female hawke is manlier than male hawke, which is less of a man
compared to Geralt. It's an action RPG.

It's still offers more choices. You can choose to be good or evil. Geralt is a netural horny white haired sword fighter who never wears armor. So compared to Witcher, DAII is still better.

[Grovermancer]

Melness wrote...

Code =/= Data

Whatever that means.

[flushfire]

Melness wrote...
Saying that Baldur's Gate is a kite fest is as unreasonable as to say that DA2 is the same.

Play DA2 on nightmare with a warrior or rogue and tell us if it is not a game of "run around while waiting CDs to refresh". Go ahead, do it.

[skan5]

Morroian wrote...
Thats no different to DAO which was apparently the tactical rpg that DA2 isn't. In fact DA2 is more complex in this regard with the controlling abilities that 2H warriors can access.

I didn't find DA:O's combat tactical either. I was looking for an improvement. What I find, to my liking, is DA2 to be cheaper - spawning enemies on top of you, potion chugging minibosses, potion stealing, etc - and thus ultimately worse.

[MorrigansLove]

Countless, numerous enemies come out of nowhere on nightmare difficulty. It's not tactical at all.

[flushfire]

Elton John is dead wrote...
It's still offers more choices. You can choose to be good or evil. Geralt is a netural horny white haired sword fighter who never wears armor. So compared to Witcher, DAII is still better.

Wat

Anyway tell me, in major plot points, are choices more than just "yes" paraphrased differently? Will your sibling not leave depending on the choices you make? Will the qunari not leave? Can you choose not to be a champion? Can you save the chantry?

[Eternal Phoenix]

F-C wrote...

personally i just think the OP is funny, and reminds me of how in DAO there were these forum posters who thought the game was soo hard...

and you could practically walk through the game effortlessly if you had 2 brain cells to rub together.


yeah, the OP reminds me of that.
"its not hack 'n slash, its too hard!!'

yeah, its ok bucky, i know ive come to the realization a lot of players are just bad.

Wrong. I never said this game was hard. Time for you to use your brain and actually play the game. If you don't like it, move on.

[Melness]

Grovermancer wrote...

Melness wrote...

Code =/= Data

Whatever that means.

Whatever that means is that while the over the top animations may not have any appeal to you, they are by no means the major part of combat as they do not influence how strong a spell is, its area of effect, its actual effects and so on.

If you dislike DA2's combat, its because to you it doesn't play as a tactical game, not because of a lack of tactical appeal, but because the animations dont fit your taste.

If you need to see it in a different way:

A game doesn't lose its violent appeal if you remove the blood. Even if you need to see blood to have fun.

And if you permit a personal opinion, I find the need for realism very much a mute point when you're talking about it in a genre where every relevantly powerful character is blatanly superhuman.

And while I can sympathize with your dislike for Dragon Age 2's animations, even though I don't really share it in the same intensity, I think you're hitting the nail on the head by claiming that Dragon Age: Origins was in any shape realistic. Hail of Arrows, Corridor Stealth, Scattershot, Ghost, Air of Insolence, Taunt, Disengage, Growl, , Knockback Warcry, Dread Howl, Threaten, Feign Death, the Champion's ability to knock people down by yelling, the entire Bard specialization and the entire Ranger specialization, the Shadow's ability to release party friendly toxins and the Guardian's non-magical shielding powers are all good examples of 'immersion breaking' things from Origins.

And let's not forget how bodies have been exploding for more than ten years in RPGs.

Modifié par Melness, 13 mars 2011 - 08:48 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

flushfire wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
It's still offers more choices. You can choose to be good or evil. Geralt is a netural horny white haired sword fighter who never wears armor. So compared to Witcher, DAII is still better.

Wat

Anyway tell me, in major plot points, are choices more than just "yes" paraphrased differently? Will your sibling not leave depending on the choices you make? Will the qunari not leave? Can you choose not to be a champion? Can you save the chantry?

No but you can choose your class and quests offer different choices which change the outcome. But we weren't talking about that, we were talking about Geralt and you can't develop him as you can develop Hawke.

[flushfire]

Then why is it less of a RPG when compared to DA2? Is character customization all that matters in a RPG? Does that make TES series the best RPGs of all time? Explain to me then, why Betrayal at Krondor is widely praised as one of the best cRPGs of all time.

If you can see that TW belongs in the ARPG subgenre, I do not understand why DA2 cannot be put in the same. Because it is tactical? Please. Put it in the Tactical RPG subgenre then, along with the Jagged Alliance series.

You can deny it all you want but the game was designed with action/awesome taking center stage with the so-called "tactical" elements like pause tacked on so it can be called tactical. Heck, even Mike Laidlaw does not deny that. You want proof? How about the numerous waves everyone is complaining about? How about the fact that there isn't iso camera? How about the fact that there is no FF even on Hard? How about the fact that both melee classes have a way to instantly close a gap? How about the fact that you cannot... Heck, just look at the animations and explosions.

Modifié par flushfire, 13 mars 2011 - 09:14 .

[Shirosaki17]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
Nightmare comes down to more hps and more waves. The tactics of avoiding stuff till you get cooldown reset and launching the next cross class combo or stacking to wipe out the wave. 

Kiting works very well on nightmare as does running away and not standing on spawn spots. I'd say you pretty much need Anders for nightmare and Aveline. I'm sure poeople have done it without them, but they sure make it easier if your Hawke is not a warrior. 

Every time you use a consumable thats one less you have. The problem was less to do with the cooldowns and more to do with the number of consumables in the game. 

Potions on a universal cooldown are kinda dumb.

My party makeup is Hawke (2 hand Warrior) Varric (range rogue), Bethany (Mage), Merril (Mage). I'm having no trouble with this group makeup. Hawke can easily tank everything even with a two hander. I haven't learned taunt yet, might need to. But his aoe abilities grab and hold most of the aggro. I got rid of Aveline when I realized Hawke keep on hitting her and sometimes killing her with his aoe. It worked perfectly.

May have trouble with bosses later on, we'll see. Once you get past lvl 7 it becomes a cakewalk on nightmare because you have more than 1 or 2 abilities and can do some decent dps.

Your Hawke is a warrior, mine was a ranged rogue. DPS is kind of disapointing unless it's cross classed. 

I'm saying that you don't need Aveline and Anders. You can make a 2 hand warrior tank in nightmare and still be successful. Like Fenris for example.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 13 mars 2011 - 09:02 .

[randallman]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

1- It uses the same rules as DA:O which weren't D&D rules but where similar

2- no you can't give them types of weapons they aren't trained in but you can change the weapons from thier defult weapons to another of the same type

D&D didn't have mana. in 2nd, 3rd, or 3.5th edition.  Not sure about 4th as I haven't kept up. 

Instead it had 'spells per day'.  If you were a wizard, cleric, or other similar class, you'd have to memorize the spells you wanted in advance and could cast them only the number of times memorized.  There was no 'mana pool' and the only way to get the spells back was to rest.  An arcane caster could scribe spells into their spellbook from scrolls.  With a sorceror and other derivative classes, you'd only learn the spells you can use at level up and you could cast N times per level, per day from that entire list of spells.

Also, D&D has always used 3d6 for attributes and you'd get a point every so many levels.. DA2 and DAO do not.  You end up with these lopsided characters which have 2 stats maxxed or 2 to 1 and the others defaulted.  In D&D, you'd only get to change your stats by a few points over the entire course of your first 20 levels, so you might have a STR of 22, a CON of 17, a DEX of 12, etc...  Humans are more well balanced than the stats would tell on DA:O or DA2, with 12 in most stats except 60 in cunning and 45 in dex or whatever.

[element eater]

Modifié par element eater, 13 mars 2011 - 09:14 .