331 réponses à ce sujet

[chq]

 I'd like the Warden back as a playable character, if only because they've implied that the "lost Warden" is missing and is probably going to be important to the plot somehow.  So it seems likely that they'll at least show up again.  

The problem is that my poor Warden is an elf.  And if they give him a cameo and I don't get to edit his face... 

[Xavier St. Cloud]

I think it'd be cool if you create a new hero from a set of new Origins influenced by the Warden.

Then you somehow help bring the Warden back into the game.

And you choose who you'd rather continue the game with.

After the two of them stomp Hawke into the pavement.

[AlexXIV]

"A Blight is comming, we need the Grey Wardens!"

[Dio Demon]

Xavier St. Cloud wrote...

I think it'd be cool if you create a new hero from a set of new Origins influenced by the Warden.

Then you somehow help bring the Warden back into the game.

And you choose who you'd rather continue the game with.

After the two of them stomp Hawke into the pavement.

First things first you have to get rid of the Warden's gut, we all know that he/she got fat.

[Liou]

Embargoed wrote...

Why bring the Warden back? My warden would sound weird with a voice after going so long without one, and he's hardly a defined character that deserves one anyway..

Well that's your own fault. It's your job to give the character a personality, not BioWares. But if you don't have enough imagination for that, i can understand why you would prefer Hawke.

As for the voice, that's only a issue if you don't like silent PCs. Personaly i actually prefer that.

[neppakyo]

Xavier St. Cloud wrote...
stomp Hawke into the pavement.

I support this sentiment.

hawke is my least favorite protagonist. So poorly done. The nameless one stomps hawke in depth and personality.

[Bio Addict]

Who among us wouldn't like to play as the Warden again? I doubt it's going to happen though, just too many obstacles.

[kalelifatih]

Just read the codex named "The Old Gods" in DA: Origins and count how many more blight there will be in game It means we will see Grey Wardens again for sure...

[ishii0615]

I would love to play as the Warden again, but I don't believe that it will happen. Hawke has to go, at least give us a character who can be a different race, and have different intro's(similar to the origins). Hawke just couldn't get it done, 10 years to tame Kirkwall?

[Curlain]

ishii0615 wrote...

I would love to play as the Warden again, but I don't believe that it will happen. Hawke has to go, at least give us a character who can be a different race, and have different intro's(similar to the origins). Hawke just couldn't get it done, 10 years to tame Kirkwall?

Agreed, loved to play the Warden but I don't think it will happen.  But hopefully Hawke will have gone as well, really don't need to be stuck with that character again

[Rockpopple]

Are you Royalty from somewhere? Was that the Royal "We" or are you speaking for many? I could speak for many too, but I prefer to speak for myself. =)

[Ainmarh]

As I followed Morrigan through the Eluvian, I certainly wouldn't mind getting my Warden back. If only to find out what's really happening with her and my baby.

[22nd MadJack]

I'd only consider it if we could switch off the voice acting. Or by some miracle the actor sounded exactly like my warden. Yes, using my imagination, I heard everything my Warden said.

[Embargoed]

Liou wrote...

Embargoed wrote...

Why bring the Warden back? My warden would sound weird with a voice after going so long without one, and he's hardly a defined character that deserves one anyway..

Well that's your own fault. It's your job to give the character a personality, not BioWares. But if you don't have enough imagination for that, i can understand why you would prefer Hawke.

As for the voice, that's only a issue if you don't like silent PCs. Personaly i actually prefer that.

... the F***? 

I hate this "you don't have imagination if your character doesn't have personality" argument. Here's the thing, Liou:

It actually isn't my job. Why should I have to substitute content for character development with my own imagination? Sure I could sit down and come up with tons of meaningless bull**** for my character in terms of personaliy and backstory, but none of it matters. Why? Because the game doesn't give me that option. 

The only outward expression my character has is dialogue, and imagining that I can hear his voice doesn't equal actually having one. He is silent, mute, unable to emote or express himself beyond the limitted scope of a sentence or two. A character is defined not only by his words, but by the whole of his personality. I can imagine that my Warden is impatient and unkind, but how does that translate into the game? By a few sentences? Whoopie! 

Thing is, none of those dialogue choices are memorable. None of the things that my Warden said- actually, none of the limited sentences that I CHOSE existed beyond the few seconds that I took to read them. The Warden cannot express himself emotionally in a visual sense without looking like some constipated fool, and the dialogue choices often don't reflect what my Warden would likely be feeling.

Saying that I should just imagine all of it and call it roleplaying is hardly a substitute. In pen and paper games, I don't sit down with my group and IMAGINE that I'm saying something or feeling soemthing, I actually act it out.

There is no roleplay beyond simple and forgettable customization involved in a silent protagonist. All that exists is a vaccum where emotion is supposed to exist. At least Hawke can sound like anything that he's saying matters.
 

[Embargoed]

22nd MadJack wrote...

I'd only consider it if we could switch off the voice acting. Or by some miracle the actor sounded exactly like my warden. Yes, using my imagination, I heard everything my Warden said.

That sort of arugment is a failed one. You can imagine all you want, none of it matters. None of what you imagine makes a difference in the game world because none of it can be accurately reflected. Your imagination =/= roleplay. 

[neppakyo]

"A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterisation, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, they may improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games."

So this and imagination isn't roleplaying. Good to know.

[Embargoed]

neppakyo wrote...

"A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterisation, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, they may improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games."

So this and imagination isn't roleplaying. Good to know.

I don't see where it says imagination = roleplay, so... yeah. Really good to know.

Edit: A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictionalsetting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[1] Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[2] - Wikipedia.org

Modifié par Embargoed, 25 avril 2011 - 06:56 .

[mhendon]

I at least want to know what happened to my warden. I don't want to play her again for one of the same reasons I wouldn't want to play Hawke again. Dragon Age is supposed to be about the world not one character. But, I'd rather play the Warden than Hawke again. The warden was awesome, Hawke was just...there.

[gotthammer]

mhendon wrote...
 But, I'd rather play the Warden than Hawke again. The warden was awesome, Hawke was just...there.

Gotta agree w/ this.

[KristinCousland]

As my name betrays my thoughts - I would love to see my warden back.

The arguments against?

How can you top a blight?

Well, doesn't that apply to any story set in Thedas?
Isn't that why some feel the story in DA2 is lacking.

Surely that is more a challenge to the imagination of the Bioware team.

Then again, Tolkien attempted to do a sequel to the Lord of the Rings. He gave up. What could top the fall of Sauron? He had quite an imagination, him, but had to give up.

In terms of storytelling I think DA2 was a decent attempt, but any story set in Thedas will have to measure up the world threatening event that the blight was.

Likewise it is going to be hard to set a decent story in the Mass Effect universe once the Reapers have been defeated. What can top that?

[Antaress]

I would love to see my Warden back

[Embargoed]

KristinCousland wrote...

As my name betrays my thoughts - I would love to see my warden back.

The arguments against?

How can you top a blight?

Well, doesn't that apply to any story set in Thedas?
Isn't that why some feel the story in DA2 is lacking.

Surely that is more a challenge to the imagination of the Bioware team.

Then again, Tolkien attempted to do a sequel to the Lord of the Rings. He gave up. What could top the fall of Sauron? He had quite an imagination, him, but had to give up.

In terms of storytelling I think DA2 was a decent attempt, but any story set in Thedas will have to measure up the world threatening event that the blight was.

Likewise it is going to be hard to set a decent story in the Mass Effect universe once the Reapers have been defeated. What can top that?

Here's a few arguments against the Warden.

1. BioWare is going down the path of voiced protagonists, so unless the Warden has his/her voice retconned, we won't see the Warden.

2. Unless there's another Blight or the Warden heads to the Anderfels, there's no point in having a Grey Warden as a protagonist. Why have a blight-killing protagonist with no blight?

3. There's plenty of room for other Dragon Age stories. Lord of the Rings had a plot that was far more original, captivating, and plain win than DA:O's plot. Fighting a dragon, demonic, blighted, or otherwise is not original nor captivating. Until Mr. Gaider or whoever else at BioWare decides that there are no more stories left to tell in Thedas, we can expect more DA games.  

4. There is hardly a need for another world-threatening Big Bad. If people don't want to play a game that isn't "Totes Epic", then they don't have to. I appreciated the story in DA2, mostly because the entire plot wasn't reliant on me slaying a Ye Olde dragon. 
5. Mass Effect was billed as a trilogy from day 1. I remember no such announcement from the DA series, nor were we promised our Warden for more than 1 game, expansions nonwithstanding. 

[KristinCousland]

Embargoed,

It's after Easter and I was just thinking out loud.

Thanks for your response.

Let me look at your points:

1. I do not like the voiced protagonist.

I am a new Bioware fan.  My first game was DAO.  Then got the dlc's and Awakening.  Since I loved it, I bought Mass Effect.  I actually liked the voice of the female Shepard, though when I tried a second play through I realised it didn't really work.   It was the same voice. lol.  I stopped playing.  My "canon" playthrough had already happened.  

This whole debate is another one, but I conceed the point.  A voiced protagonist makes a warden return more unlikely, and also makes the prospect of me buying another DA game more unlikely.  If I want a preset character I already have Shepard.

To me not having a voice protagonist is the reason many people love their wardens - though they don't even realise the reason themselves.  Not having a voice allows for the player to put in all their own passion and emotion into the lines - which will always top the effort of any voice actor out there.   The boundlessness of the human mind and all that.

2. The Warden is one of the most revered hero's in Thedas.  Kristin doesn't need a blight to make a difference.  She helpes kittens down from trees :innocent:

3. I do agree with you here, but I think it ties into point one.

If you avoid the "world on the brink of destruction" plot, we need to care about the characters.  It's a lot harder to care for some voiced generic character where you are a mere movie director choosing the tone of the story, instead of really "living in the skin" of the character.  It can be done with a voiced protagonist too I suppose, but is a lot harder.  It requires great creative talent.

Let's face it.  Not everyone is a Bronte. The easy way to create involvement is to put the entire world in peril, not explore the soul of characters.  That is generally reservered for our better artists.  No offence to the Bio team intended.

4.  See above.   I agree with you if it's well done.  It's just hard to do, and I think a non-voiced protagonist helps especially in that case

5. I want to see more of Thedas with the warden or not.

It's just because DAO was so darned well done, that a lot of us fell in love with our warden more than other aspects of Thedas.

Bioware would be well served, imho, to look at why so many more people are attached to their warden than they are to Hawke.

There is some wisdom there to be gleamed I believve

[Embargoed]

@ KristenCousland

The whole silent protagonist is the only real disagreement I have with many of the other gamers here.

I just don't think that a character that forces you to IMAGINE any sort of depth for isn't a good character at all. Why? Because none of what I imagine is being recognized by the game.

For example. In Fallout 3, I imagined my character was a cunning, smart, charismatic, handsome dude who hated his father. His dad was some douche who left him for dead to go complete some half-baked science experiment that involved metric F***tons of radiation. The game didn't really reflect my complete dissatisfaction with being forced to go find my father, for reasons that weren't really explained beyond "He's your father. Deal w/ it skywalker."

Then comes the fact that I don't enjoy sitting at my computer/television screen, reciting lines. Saying a bunch of prerecorded responses aloud doesn't really seem like roleplaying to me, especially considering that I don't feel like saying what the writers want me to say.

Then there's the fact that I don't routinely enjoy sitting at my desk, trying to make myself feel sad so I can pretend that my Warden is saddened by the loss of his parents. Silent protagonists can't express emotion, and I sure as hell am not going to cry or laugh or act like a douche for them. Roleplaying a character should not involve reciting lines like its a movie script because I'm not an actor, I'm a gamer.

When I read a story, I expect to feel the characters expressing emotion, not emoting because the author intended for me, the reader, to do the emotional leg work. The same can be said for a game. I like having dialogue choices, but I don't like having two-dimensional cardboard cutouts that have no ability to truly express themselves. Thing is, silent protagonists can ONLY express themselves through dialogue, so unlike Hawke who can raise his eyebrows in surprise or shake his head in disappointment or even grin unapologetically, the silent protagonist feels pretty empty as a character.

Another thing is that the other voiced characters in the game often outshine the main character in terms of interest. I still remember Alistair's horrendously funny "swooping is bad" line, but I can't remember a single of the Warden's lines. None of what he said was particularly memorable to me. He just seemed like a vehicle to explore the backstories of the actual, interesting characters in my party while at the same time accomplishing whatever linear series of events are being thrown my way.