331 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

I don't mind the silent hero, so long as the companions aren't the ones doing the hero's job in the story. As I said before, nothing brought home the problem of having a silent hero for me than the nomination of the Dwarven king (playing Oghren's silent sidekick was humiliating) and the rallying of the troops before the march to Denerim (leaving it to Anora or your "Robin" Alistar to talk about how awesome you are seemed sad to me). In most other scenes it was tolerable, but DA2 and ME have convinced me to not look back. I'm not saying DA2 was perfect, far from it, but the VA wasn't one of the problems.

[TheButterflyEffect]

I want my sexy dwarfy lady back.

[Abispa]

I hope that other races will available as the main hero in the future, at the very least in DLCs. Maybe a Dwarf, Qunari, or Elf adventure DLC that you could plug into DA2. A little note saying that this adventure takes place before a certain chapter and off you go.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Elves are cool, Dwarves are my favourite, but Qunari would be cool too, especially some sexy tall amazon Qun ladies.

It would take work, but I know they could pull it off.

[Sainthood85]

I want a new character with a new adventure.

Lvl 1 at start makes more sense and since every Warden is different based on the player. Having a set NPC ruins a lot.

[DAO MAdhatter]

XX55XX wrote...

I didn't care much about Hawke. He/She wasn't really a hero, but more of an opportunist who just had decisions and opportunities thrown upon his/her lap. Hawke's "rise to power" has been punctuated by moments of sheer luck and little else.

What we need, is for our Warden to come back as the primary protagonist. I don't care if BioWare elects to bring back voice acting or not with this Warden. I don't care if all of our savegames are retconned. The Warden is a far more compelling person than Hawke - yeah, yeah, Hawke started a mage rebellion, but the Warden freaking saved Thedas from the march of the darkspawn.

They also should bring back the old style of narrative - namely, saving the world from a grave threat. I think the qunari would be play an excellent role in being that enemy.

It will be a controversial move, but Dragon Age 2 felt more like a spinoff game than an actual sequel.

The Warden wast a hero either. They were a cradboard cutout made to hold the story togeather. Hell Allister managed to acomplice EVERYTHING needed to defeat the blight without ever having the Warden present, via Darkspawn cronicles. No. Hawkes story is just beginning, The Wardens story never even began.

[Liou]

# Embargoed. I think we will have to agree to disagree about this one. I would like to explain though. I don't pronounce the words when i read them, i don't have to. I hear the voice in my head (yes i know how that sounds) and if there is a line i don't like or think is too short i simply alter it to fit my liking or prolong it without losing the meaning of the text. It is true, the game dosn't recognize it. But in my opinion, it dosn't really have to in order to be enjoyable as long as i can be who i want to be. The most important thing is that the game offers me plenty of options to actually roleplay the character i want. If you look after, Mass Effect dosn't necessarily recognize Shepards dialogue either. There was plenty of times were you would get the exact same dialogue from an NPC or even Shepard despite choosing different lines. The game just gives you different lines because it is important that you feel that you always have a choice. I have only played DA II once so i don't know if this is also the case in that game but it wouldn't surprise me. The problem with voiced antagonists is that they don't have the same roleplaying potential as their silent counterpart. There isn't really as many ways to interpret Hawke, as a character, i think. It was much easier to shape the Warden into something i liked because he wasn't as independent as Hawke. That is undoubtedly a good thing for many, but not me. Hawke felt more like BioWares character than my own. In my opinion, it shouldn't be that way in a roleplaying game. BioWare is the gamemaster but the character should be mine. I want to participate, not observe. I can accept voiced protagonists however, though i will probably never prefer them. The problem is, i usually don't like the voice, if i don't like the voice, i am not gonna like the dialogue. But assuming i like the voice, i am okay with it. But the dialogue wheel has to go. I need to atleast know what my character is gonna say before i accept a line.

Short lines isn't really a good argument against silent protagonists either since the sentence can (technically) be as long and varied as the developer want them to be.

Modifié par Liou, 26 avril 2011 - 07:08 .

[22nd MadJack]

Embargoed wrote...

22nd MadJack wrote...

I'd only consider it if we could switch off the voice acting. Or by some miracle the actor sounded exactly like my warden. Yes, using my imagination, I heard everything my Warden said.

That sort of arugment is a failed one. You can imagine all you want, none of it matters. None of what you imagine makes a difference in the game world because none of it can be accurately reflected. Your imagination =/= roleplay. 

I disagree.  I imagined the voice, and it mattered to me.  Thus your fist statement is false.  I don't give a fart what you think should matter to me.  Your second point is true, yet invalid.  An unvoiced PC is as capable of changing the game world as an voiced one.  The NPCs do not hear Hawke, the voice acting is there entirely for your benifit.  NPCs are clouds of ones and zeros, their responses are triggered by the players dialog selection or by his actions. The baritones of Generic Male Hero, or the snobbery of Miss Cheltenham Ladies College do not change events in the slightest.

Between the two of us, I think myself more qualified to discern what my imagination is capable of.  Creating a voice isn't a stretch by any means.

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
Elves are cool, Dwarves are my favourite, but Qunari would be cool too, especially some sexy tall amazon Qun ladies.

Qunari women, by BioWare's own canon, do not fight.  So the term Amazon is misappropriated.  However the prospect of reintroducing the capability of playing an 'Eoywn' archetype (albeit with horns) is tantalising.  

Modifié par 22nd MadJack, 26 avril 2011 - 05:39 .

[Arrun]

Bring back the Warden. Voiced or not, i don't care, but the Warden is what made the game so personal, individual and connected to me. It felt like a proper roleplaying game. Dragon Age 2 has stupid, out of place dialogue wheels which seem forced and unnecessary. Every time a conversation comes up now, I feel almost prompted by the game to make the usual Good, Sarcastic or Bad response, because Hawke for me is not me. I am not Hawke, I am an observer of his life, who happens to be telling him to decapitate Feynriel's mum ... In Origins, the text was grey...you said what you thought necessary at the time and gauged a response from the NPC, just like in REAL LIFE. In DA2, you generally can tell that if you choose the red fist which says 'Shut up whining and pay me' you can realistically predetermine that that NPC isn't going to be a fan. Even more than that, you often don't know what your going to say ! Many a time have i picked a triple swirly arrow which said, 'i'm sorry, but i was not able to save them' and instead Hawke said, 'Everyone's dead.'
The Warden is what created the personal feel for me, and THAT, THAT is the essence of true role playing. When will someone inform Bioware that a) some people don't play Mass Effect, some people don't want Dragon Effect and c) Some people want an individual game, not 'Mass Effect's fantasy twin' ? Stop trailing this series in ME's shadow and make it its own damned standalone series !

[olg0001]

we need the gray warden back or bioware is going down

[Paraxial]

I'd rather stay with Hawke, i've grown rather attached. Having the Warden get a cameo or something of that nature might not be bad, but I really don't want to see Hawke go so soon.

[Theagg]

Embargoed wrote...

@ KristenCousland

The whole silent protagonist is the only real disagreement I have with many of the other gamers here.

I just don't think that a character that forces you to IMAGINE any sort of depth for isn't a good character at all. Why? Because none of what I imagine is being recognized by the game.

For example. In Fallout 3, I imagined my character was a cunning, smart, charismatic, handsome dude who hated his father. His dad was some douche who left him for dead to go complete some half-baked science experiment that involved metric F***tons of radiation. The game didn't really reflect my complete dissatisfaction with being forced to go find my father, for reasons that weren't really explained beyond "He's your father. Deal w/ it skywalker."

Then comes the fact that I don't enjoy sitting at my computer/television screen, reciting lines. Saying a bunch of prerecorded responses aloud doesn't really seem like roleplaying to me, especially considering that I don't feel like saying what the writers want me to say.

Then there's the fact that I don't routinely enjoy sitting at my desk, trying to make myself feel sad so I can pretend that my Warden is saddened by the loss of his parents. Silent protagonists can't express emotion, and I sure as hell am not going to cry or laugh or act like a douche for them. Roleplaying a character should not involve reciting lines like its a movie script because I'm not an actor, I'm a gamer.

When I read a story, I expect to feel the characters expressing emotion, not emoting because the author intended for me, the reader, to do the emotional leg work. The same can be said for a game. I like having dialogue choices, but I don't like having two-dimensional cardboard cutouts that have no ability to truly express themselves. Thing is, silent protagonists can ONLY express themselves through dialogue, so unlike Hawke who can raise his eyebrows in surprise or shake his head in disappointment or even grin unapologetically, the silent protagonist feels pretty empty as a character.

Another thing is that the other voiced characters in the game often outshine the main character in terms of interest. I still remember Alistair's horrendously funny "swooping is bad" line, but I can't remember a single of the Warden's lines. None of what he said was particularly memorable to me. He just seemed like a vehicle to explore the backstories of the actual, interesting characters in my party while at the same time accomplishing whatever linear series of events are being thrown my way.

Greg Zeschuk would beg to differ from your opinion. As one of the founders of Bioware it was quite clear from him that the silent protagonist in Origins was partly chosen precisely because it allowed the player to role play the character. Yes, he said this in so many words.The voice of the Warden became the voice in your head, it personalised it. (Whoever said you had to recite those lines out loud anyway ?)

Whereas Voice actors detach the character from the player, its the voice of someone else. You become more of a passive spectator, listening to dialogue you are unaware of as it is delivered beyond your control. Likewise with any emtional responses Hawke visually delivered. They were not your roleplayed responses. They were coded and based on how the game designers felt Hake might express emotion for the line of dialogue at that point in the game.

Frankly there were times when I didn't want Hawke to smirk..but I had no control over that did I ?

I'm also going to point out the obvious here, that the thrust of your whole argument that you can't roleplay a silent protagonist is a] wholly subjective and flawed at that too because b] there were many classic (and not so classic) roleplaying games available prior to Mass Effect style VA gaming, that had no voice acting in them whatsoever.

Simple really

[Mahtisonni]

The one thing I hated most in DA2 was this.
You were always the spectator in every thing in kirkwall and never did you actually cause anything yourself.

The 2 best parts of the game were completely under control of your party members and not you.
Qunari act. Everything is about Isabella and her for some reason having problem with slavery but not with starting a ****ing war. Everything you said and did with qunari and chantry matters not the ****ing slightest, because they're going to attack anyways and you get the book far too late.

Mage/templar act. Everything about Anders in the end and nothing what you've said or done with the templar or mages doesn't matter. You get last choice which too is pretty much all the same, since you don't get to see any continuation.

Also another thing in this game that greatly irritates me was the thing with "I'M TOO IMPORTANT TO THE STORY TO DIE" characters, like mother peatrice and the murderer of your mothar.
No matter what your choices, they still taunt you and you cannot butcher them before **** hits the fan.

If you're going to make a character act like a colossal dick, please time it so, that he/she will not be so vital to the story that the world would be broken by a single stab from murder knife.


I WANT MY WARDEN BACK!
At least he wasn't afraid to stab people in the face when they were crossing the line.

Modifié par Mahtisonni, 09 mai 2011 - 08:00 .

[Cheekybuttz]

I want my warden back and alistar And other companions I grew really attached to all of them, everyone had there own personality e.g wynee was the
Mother of the group etc they should do something like mass effect, to solve the problem of peoples wardens dying; morrigan (before doing the ritual) knows of the old magic that could possibly solve the problem of people wardens that died but then a lot of people will probably disagree with that statement but it's just an idea

[Phaedros]

Why should the Grey Warden's story have had to end with the end of the Blight?

What *really* caused the blight?

There was stuff going on with the Old Gods that was never really explained..

War of the Gods anyone?

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I would rather just as well start over, but with the Origins character options back. I'm kind of tired of the Wardens, the Chantry and the Circle. It would be nice to have a break from those three organizations. Sure they could be in the background, but it wouldn't interest me too much to play as a member of any of them.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

I just want the silent protagonist back. I hate voice characters in RPGs they take away the immersion for me. If they just tweaked it to where it shows whether your comment is joking or something, that would be better than a voiced character. I think the only way we can get a game even close to the degree of control in Origins is if we get a silent protagonist. On the up side, they can spend more money on the NPC's since they wouldn't have to hire a voice actor for the controlled character. I just hope that Bethesda isn't the last to use the silent protagonist thing. I mean it works so well in Fallout: New Vegas.

[Grey Warden Balian]

simfamSP wrote...

NO...NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO *breaths* NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.... Dragon age is about the world, not about the warden.

Dragon Age is about the Dragons i.e. the Archdemon i.e. the Darkspawn threat i.e. the role of the Wardens to eliminate that threat therefore it is about the Wardens otherwise it would have been called ****got Age.

[Grey Warden Balian]

Phaedros wrote...

Why should the Grey Warden's story have had to end with the end of the Blight?

What *really* caused the blight?

There was stuff going on with the Old Gods that was never really explained..

War of the Gods anyone?

Wasn't it because of those Tevinter Mages that usurped the Black City; seat of the Maker?

I miss the Warden. I know I slew the Archdemon and died but I hope for some reason they would bring back the Warden.

[Grey Warden Balian]

Mahtisonni wrote...

The one thing I hated most in DA2 was this.
You were always the spectator in every thing in kirkwall and never did you actually cause anything yourself.

The 2 best parts of the game were completely under control of your party members and not you.
Qunari act. Everything is about Isabella and her for some reason having problem with slavery but not with starting a ****ing war. Everything you said and did with qunari and chantry matters not the ****ing slightest, because they're going to attack anyways and you get the book far too late.

Mage/templar act. Everything about Anders in the end and nothing what you've said or done with the templar or mages doesn't matter. You get last choice which too is pretty much all the same, since you don't get to see any continuation.

Also another thing in this game that greatly irritates me was the thing with "I'M TOO IMPORTANT TO THE STORY TO DIE" characters, like mother peatrice and the murderer of your mothar.
No matter what your choices, they still taunt you and you cannot butcher them before **** hits the fan.

If you're going to make a character act like a colossal dick, please time it so, that he/she will not be so vital to the story that the world would be broken by a single stab from murder knife.


I WANT MY WARDEN BACK!
At least he wasn't afraid to stab people in the face when they were crossing the line.

same!

[Grey Warden Balian]

What I love about Origins and the Warden is that their decisions, if they really see it through the end, it will be for the greater good. I know I have pissed off Morrigan, Alistair, the Dwarves, the Mages, but if you really stick to you guns in Origins, your decisions will eventually be weighed to your favour and you emerge as a hero. In Dragon Age 2, it was a lost cause from the start, and there is no way you can choose between the Templars OR the Circle without being branded a complete @$shole and be hunted like pig in other words, you really cannot forge a definite alliance with your decisions unlike in Origins, if you remained steadfast with your choices, the other party will just lay low and not antagonize you further (at least they wouldn't dare). Not the case in Dragon Age 2.

[thesilverlinedviking]

My warden's story is done. I'd prefer it stay that way.

[Giggles_Manically]

My warden is dead......

[armonistan]

I want nothing to do with my warden. The mute was a complete pansy who needed morrigan and sten to do all the work. I refuse to have anything to ever do with a silent protagonist ever again. They never have any personality, any passion, they are just there. Plus, I loved my Hawkes. The sassy Apostate who stood with the Templars (irony I know) to my compassionate Warrior who sympathized with Mages. Each was unique and endearing. Please give my Hawkes closure, the Warden got his (currently ruling Ferelden happily with Anora). Then and only then will I happily and willingly embrace a new Hero.