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[MKDAWUSS]

Story wise? None.

It was just some means of satisfying a plot requirement. Much like 90% of Act III.

[Arrtis]

For the mage I had saved the templars on numerous occasions and the brother was in the templar.
They planned on arresting but the boss lady wanted death all the sudden.
When they all wanted to stick to arresting, but then she got a little crazy with her sword.It started humming and glowing which I am sure they couldnt just ignore.
Then she became even more crazy by saying everyone should die....then everyone helped to kill her.
Made sense.
Orsino would resort to desperate measures because he was outnumbered and had hawke against him.
It all made sense.

[HolyJellyfish]

I certainly wasn't disappointed by these turn of events. It is stated very clearly that there is no right side to choose. Meredith is insane, and Orsino is a hypocrite.

I'm not sure that it was very necessary to make the Quentin - Orsino connection, but it definitely cast the First Enchanter as a very harsh character who sided with mages even at the expense of other people's lives (I am reminded of the Tevinter Imperium, or Fenris' POV of the country.)

I'm under the impression that the GoA DLC came after they constructed the idea for DA2. It explains the mystery of their creation, and why they are so numerous.

[HolyJellyfish]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Story wise? None.

It was just some means of satisfying a plot requirement. Much like 90% of Act III.

I am inclined to disagree.

Throughout the story, Anders makes it very, very clear that the only reason many mages have resorted to blood magic and demons is out of desperation and survival.

Orsino clearly outlined that fact, showing just how desperate Mages were becoming in the face of UTTER GENOCIDE.

[Icy Magebane]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Story wise? None.

It was just some means of satisfying a plot requirement. Much like 90% of Act III.

I am inclined to disagree.

Throughout the story, Anders makes it very, very clear that the only reason many mages have resorted to blood magic and demons is out of desperation and survival.

Orsino clearly outlined that fact, showing just how desperate Mages were becoming in the face of UTTER GENOCIDE.

Okay, so how about explaining why Orsino attacked his own allies?  If he knew how to use blood magic effectively, why would he just turn into some insane creature and start attacking the Champion? 

I'm going to have to disagree with you... it's not blood magic that corrupts people anyway, it's dealing with demons.  Blood magic makes you powerful, as in the case of Hawke.  Dealing with demons always ends badly.  Unfortunately, the game is designed so that you can never say that to anyone... hell, half the time, Hawke was saying how evil blood magic was, even though I was a good guy!

[NvVanity]

If you read some of Orsino's notes he has them addressed to a "Q". Now when you're in the serial killers lair he has notes from an "O". Orsino and Quentin. The notes discussed blood magic so it could be thought that Orsino was having Quentin research this very type of creature since it is made of dead bodies and Quentin probably had a few lying around.

[LPPrince]

The two fights make much more sense if you side with the Templars.

[rdeja]

in the boss fight with it in my game there were templars everywhere and orsino went mentalist on everything not just me and my party

[Arrtis]

Also can you blame the boss lady when she was under the influence?
Orsino can take all the blame.He wasn't fit to be the leader.
Supported a dude who killed innocents for the sake of research.
Often tried to rally people to fight against the templars.
While acting like its for the sake of survival.
If you took him out of the equation it would not have escalated so much.

[TheTWF]

Golems barely sold, which made the harvester model fair game. 

[Arrtis]

The thing that came out from the harvester looks like it was stolen from Dead space....

[nranola]

I was utterly confused myself when Orsino did what he did. I got the impression that Hawke and company were holding out pretty well and he decides to pull a stunt like that? Wat?

Though after a fair bit of reading from this thread, it would make most sense if it were simply a case of Orsino being desperate and then overly confident of his ability to control his magic. If that was the case, sadly, it wasn't stressed clearly enough. It could've done with many a few more lines as the transformation went on, like maybe him going "What's happening?", or him screaming with terror.

[Nathan Redgrave]

TheTWF wrote...

Golems barely sold, which made the harvester model fair game. 

...I don't get what the relevance is.

[Nathan Redgrave]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Throughout the story, Anders makes it very, very clear that the only reason many mages have resorted to blood magic and demons is out of desperation and survival.

It's also mentioned in the description text for Hawke's Blood Mage specialization, should you deign to play as a mage yourself.

[Nathan Redgrave]

NvVanity wrote...

If you read some of Orsino's notes he has them addressed to a "Q". Now when you're in the serial killers lair he has notes from an "O". Orsino and Quentin. The notes discussed blood magic so it could be thought that Orsino was having Quentin research this very type of creature since it is made of dead bodies and Quentin probably had a few lying around.

Ah... HA.

I didn't even make that connection. Orsino was associated with that madman... what the hell...

[HawXV2]

Demon Velsper wrote...

Seems to me they just went "Oh crap, we made that Golems of Amgarrak DLC didn't we, better put a Harvester in the game."

No mind it makes no -ing sense, just put it in there.

Harvesters were an attempt by dwarves to create a Golem out of flesh and now Orsino just turns into one out the blue? Epic writing there.

And the point of all those Harvesters escaping at the end of Amgarrak was...? Oh, never mind then.

He didn't turn into a Harvester. This is just how BioWare represents the culmanation of bodies. 

[AngelicMachinery]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Orsino seemed like a very reasonlable (if very frusrated) person beforehand and it made no sense for him to break down like that.

Couldn't he have waited a little bit before going crazy? You know, actually take it out on the Templars instead of his allies?

Exactly.

[White_Buffalo94]

I think Orsino goes mad, transforms into an abomination, and forgets who is his ally. The codex says he turns into an abomination btw. Not a flesh golem

[Tsarapihelas]

mrsph wrote...

Orsino was the guy sending the Kirkwall Killer books on Necromancy and mentions using his research before he turns into the Harvester.

Yeah...

DING DING DING.

How did everyone miss this? 

Modifié par Tsarapihelas, 14 mars 2011 - 07:35 .

[Zaros]

Tsarapihelas wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Orsino was the guy sending the Kirkwall Killer books on Necromancy and mentions using his research before he turns into the Harvester.

Yeah...

DING DING DING.

How did everyone miss this? 

The letters were a little cryptic, and also, it might of had to do with the fact that every blood mage you meet up to that point is either giggling mad, an abomination, or infected with the rage virus or something (considering how many just attack you outright, I'm suprised they can stay in groups at all, though I'm willing to suspend that as gameplay and story segregation).

Not to mention the fact that in addition to making him a hypocrite, he also probably was aware of the fact that the Kirkwall Killer took your mother (I know Meredith uses her in an argument against you at one point), and he commissions you for help anyway.

So really, he's sort of like the worst chracter in the game, story wise and meta-gaming wise.

Modifié par Zaros, 15 mars 2011 - 02:35 .

[Varus Praetor]

Pretty sure this is a case of lazy design (recycling bosses) and poor writing. Really poor.

[kennyv217]

My reaction: "Oh, he's using blood magic. Okay. There's dead bodies being drawn to him. Um...am I playing Resident Evil or something? Uh, what the hell is that thing!? Maybe he's fighting as this by our side...maybe? Oh...we're fighting hmm, shows how much my choice to side with the Mages mattered."

[UltiPup]

Back a mage into a corner...This was said so many times in the game. We saw what happens. It was inevitable. Orsino was a mage. He could fall to the same temptations.

Now, what Orsino turned into was technically a Harvester and for legit reasons. Let's look at what it takes to make a Harvester ( based on the wikia, correct me anywhere I am wrong ). Dead dwarves were used for the body as a Tevinter mage sealed a Fade spirit inside to bring it alive. Now Orsino used the dead bodies of his mages via blood magic. And when blood magic is involved, so are demons. So, we can say that Orsino gave himself up to a Fade demon and became a Harvester. This makes a Harvester technically an Abomination since demons are involved. It is correct that Orsino can logically do this.

[highcastle]

Story wise it tied into the All That Remains quest. If you go back and play it, you find a note to Quentin about passing him along books and being interested in his research. It's signed "O." I noticed it and then forgot it in the wake of such an emotional mission. But I remembered it again on my second playthrough. Orsino also mentions Quentin before he transforms.

So Orsino had some knowledge of Quentin's necromancy. He thought it was dangerous, but in some ways he approved it. It's yet another way to muddy the waters between templars and mages.

[Fieryeel]

It was because Bioware originally had a grand plan of us going down into the Deep Roads and stumbling upon the hordes of Harvesters, and there would have been an epic story arc where we, along with Kirkwall faces much crisis.

Unfortunately, due to the reduced budget imposed by EA, as well as the shortened time span, Bioware was unable to realise that idea, and got into their own crisis situation, "Oh f**k, we DID said we were gonna put harvesters in the game, and there's one in the trailer too. Well, let's just handwave the whole thing and randomly turn Orsino into a harvester."