444 réponses à ce sujet

[OmegaBlue0231]

Maderas_ wrote...

I'm sick to death of seeing whiny console users play the persecution card and throw around the phrase "PC elitist". Fact of the matter is, games that are designed with the console in mind are dumbed down compared to games designed for the PC. All you have to do is play DA2 for five minutes and then compare it to Origins to see this. The ability to customize companion armor is gone, making half the DLC items they intend to sell us completely worthless. The isometric camera is gone, making it a huge pain in the ass to try to aim AoE abilities unless the enemy is standing right on top of you. The playable area is tiny, even in comparison to Origins; which wasn't overly large to begin with. Meaningful dialogue choices are replaced with the Mass Effect Wheel-Of-Faux-Choice, where nearly every selection leads to the exact same outcome. Hell, the entire game in general reeks of fake choices. They weren't kidding when they used the "Witness the rise to power" tagline, because witnessing it is about all we do. The only real choice in the game boils down to which faction you choose to support in the endgame, and even that is so hackneyed that it's pathetic. So please, spare us your console whinging.

Just because you all want live in a bubble and delude yourselves into believing your budget mini-PC using 4-5 year old hardware, where 20 FPS in combat is considered "acceptable", is somehow comparable to a dedicated gaming platform does not mean the rest of us want to have to sift through it in every argument. Consoles being crappy was no excuse to neuter DA2, and you all know this. You know consoles are crappy compared to a well built PC, so just stop trying. It's sad. It's why you all become so rabid and start attacking PC users over "elitism" at the drop of a hat. Jealousy.

Wow! That was suppose to make me think there is no PC Elitism? It work so well, in that mean spirited rant you opened my eyes and showed me how wonderful PC gamers are. Thank you my friend, you're an angel

[triggerslol]

I completly agree with the OP. I thoughjt it was a plausible game but heck everything felt rushed. You only knew the big villain for what? The fight it took to kill it.
And afterwards, the coonclusion, wtf?
No substance, no depth! 7 years of story's worth, character development, intrigues and drama. It could've been legendary.
But during all the "major" branches of the story I never felt emotional connected, not once.

[MegaBadExample]

Hmm...I didn't even notice. "Should of gone to specsavers."

[Alex109222]

@simfamSP
stop defending Bioware like they are all innocent, they had a big part to play in this, they sat there and are honestly proud of what they have done. They are just as bad.

[L337Sarge]

flushfire wrote...

Riloux wrote...

-Reusing the same four maps 500 times.

How could you?! They risked content and they did it artfully! Why, so artfully in fact that it is difficult to recognize the same areas! And do you not think that spotting what is the difference between reused areas is a game in itself?

Would you rather have a 10 hour shorter game or reused maps? Silly 4channer/PC elitist.

10 hours shorter, if it means a more meaningful and enjoyable experience overall.

[BeljoraDien]

WilliamShatner wrote...

When they realized they had an extremely short time to make the game they should have decided to make the game like Baldur's Gate II, same basic game with more stuff and a couple of updates, while working on their "reinvention" in the background for DA3. 

Creating a mostly brand new game with significantly changed features takes a lot of time, time that could have been spent on content.  So instead of getting the better, bigger version of Dragon Age you get a game that half-asses on both "reinvention" and content.

Exactly... That's exactly what I was expecting up until I downloaded the demo.
A quote from a year ago:

David Gaider wrote...
Incidentally, I find it interesting that everyone compares DA:O almost exclusively to BG2. The better comparison would be BG1. BG2 was an iteration of an exisitng engine we already knew how to use and could simply tweak and add content for, a situation we haven't been in since -- not until ME2, really. Or any potential full sequel to DA:O.

Does this not imply that DA2 will essentially be developed that way? I took it that way and even replied to that comment with enthusiasm for what DA2 was going to be.... So ironic.

[Suron]

Emerald Melios wrote...

jnewcomer536 wrote...

Eurogamer: Is Dragon Age II better on PC?

Mike Laidlaw: I wouldn't say so. We actually did extensive work to make sure the experiences were much closer aligned. I would say the gulf between the two was quite significant in Origins, simply because the consoles were tackled second as opposed to concurrently with the PC.

Stop designing **** for consoles Bioware. Stick to what made you a great developer. Depth, RPG elements and story. Not flashy combat and recycled areas.

Yeah, how dare they try to treat consoler & PC gamers equally. You all sound a bunch of elitists that are mad because Bioware isn't catering to your exclusive club anymore. And I thought the TOR fanbase were spoiled children... <_<

if being elitist means not being happy with rushed, subpar, and overpriced products.  Then yes I guess we are elitists.  Face it Consoles have been being given the shaft for a long time..it's finally filtering into PC games and developers because Consoles are the big thing.  That's NOT elitism.  That's called expecting quality, not quantity.

But why don't you go back to playing CoD..what 4? 5? 6? 12? (what number is it on now?)

"elitists" LOL

[Maderas_]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...
Wow! That was suppose to make me think there is no PC Elitism? It work so well, in that mean spirited rant you opened my eyes and showed me how wonderful PC gamers are. Thank you my friend, you're an angel

As I already stated, I'd like to see console whiners keep their drivel to themselves. It wasn't supposed to make you think anything. The insinuation that DA2 being completely neutered on all platforms because it somehow supposedly put console gamers on an even keel with the PC are completely inane and the worst sort of cop-out.

Modifié par Maderas_, 13 mars 2011 - 08:33 .

[Tarwater03]

Generally, I agree, if a game is designed for a console, it's going to be an inferior product. However, Bioware did do Knights of the Old Republic -- and if I'm not mistaken, it was an xbox title before it was a PC title.

So, it can be done. Then, again... I might be wrong about that. But I think xbox was first, then they ported it to PC.

[Suron]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

Maderas_ wrote...

I'm sick to death of seeing whiny console users play the persecution card and throw around the phrase "PC elitist". Fact of the matter is, games that are designed with the console in mind are dumbed down compared to games designed for the PC. All you have to do is play DA2 for five minutes and then compare it to Origins to see this. The ability to customize companion armor is gone, making half the DLC items they intend to sell us completely worthless. The isometric camera is gone, making it a huge pain in the ass to try to aim AoE abilities unless the enemy is standing right on top of you. The playable area is tiny, even in comparison to Origins; which wasn't overly large to begin with. Meaningful dialogue choices are replaced with the Mass Effect Wheel-Of-Faux-Choice, where nearly every selection leads to the exact same outcome. Hell, the entire game in general reeks of fake choices. They weren't kidding when they used the "Witness the rise to power" tagline, because witnessing it is about all we do. The only real choice in the game boils down to which faction you choose to support in the endgame, and even that is so hackneyed that it's pathetic. So please, spare us your console whinging.

Just because you all want live in a bubble and delude yourselves into believing your budget mini-PC using 4-5 year old hardware, where 20 FPS in combat is considered "acceptable", is somehow comparable to a dedicated gaming platform does not mean the rest of us want to have to sift through it in every argument. Consoles being crappy was no excuse to neuter DA2, and you all know this. You know consoles are crappy compared to a well built PC, so just stop trying. It's sad. It's why you all become so rabid and start attacking PC users over "elitism" at the drop of a hat. Jealousy.

Wow! That was suppose to make me think there is no PC Elitism? It work so well, in that mean spirited rant you opened my eyes and showed me how wonderful PC gamers are. Thank you my friend, you're an angel

ironic thing is it's no worse then the rants console defenders go on towards PC "elitists"

[Maderas_]

The only difference between my rant and the rants of console defenders is that mine can actually be backed up by logic, since I'm not willfully ignorant and I do not choose to believe that consoles using 5 year old hardware are somehow just as powerful as a modern PC.

[Grobvolk]

Suron wrote...

Emerald Melios wrote...

jnewcomer536 wrote...

Eurogamer: Is Dragon Age II better on PC?

Mike Laidlaw: I wouldn't say so. We actually did extensive work to make sure the experiences were much closer aligned. I would say the gulf between the two was quite significant in Origins, simply because the consoles were tackled second as opposed to concurrently with the PC.

Stop designing **** for consoles Bioware. Stick to what made you a great developer. Depth, RPG elements and story. Not flashy combat and recycled areas.

Yeah, how dare they try to treat consoler & PC gamers equally. You all sound a bunch of elitists that are mad because Bioware isn't catering to your exclusive club anymore. And I thought the TOR fanbase were spoiled children... <_<

if being elitist means not being happy with rushed, subpar, and overpriced products.  Then yes I guess we are elitists.  Face it Consoles have been being given the shaft for a long time..it's finally filtering into PC games and developers because Consoles are the big thing.  That's NOT elitism.  That's called expecting quality, not quantity.

But why don't you go back to playing CoD..what 4? 5? 6? 12? (what number is it on now?)

"elitists" LOL

I find it funny and even in way a bit sad how "elitist" is used as an insult nowadays.
Regarding consoles: the popular notion is obviously that the console crowd wants more shallow and generally bad games, which is quite obviously bull****, but publishers and even some developers don't get that. Everybody wants a deep and engaging experience. It's just that there are some weird circumstances in the industry and with consoles. Console controllers are the biggest problem in attaining gameplay depth, since they can never give the player the same degree of control as a mouse and a keyboard. The other problem is that development cycles are too short and graphics take up lots of time and money leaving little for actual gameplay. And another problem with Dragon Age in particular is that the game mechanics weren't even that good to begin with and I think Bioware is just not particularly good at anything but writing story and dialogue. They just didn't know any better so they made it worse

[jcb101]

The OP precisely sums up what's wrong with the game in both my view and those of the dissenting majority. I hope that of all the angry threads on this forum, this is the one read and digested by whoever makes decisions in the Bioware hierarchy on what'll happen with this franchises future. I'm confident that Bioware won't make the same mistake twice of alienating and dividing it's fanbase like this for fun and profit.

I'm confident that Dragon Age 3 will address all those issues, and on top of that, be a better game than both Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins combined. Either that or Bioware risks losing what made them great in the first place, and fall by the shadow of mediocrity that has taken most of their peers...

Change can be both good and bad, but excuses for an obviously rushed product promoted as "streamlined" or "enhancements" are sad IMHO. Please Bioware read the OP's list.

---
a long time bioware fan

[Ragnadaam]

*Slow Clap*
I'm certain if this wasn't a Bioware/EA game the devs would be trashed as lazy for the reusing of levels,and the combat repetitive for it's mindless waves of enemies.Heck you summed up pretty much every problem with this game.I hope the devs see posts like these,and Mike Laidaw specifically exits denial mode which he seems to be in,after all there's some really bad design decisions here.

[astreqwerty]

Brenus wrote...

You pretty much summed up every criticism that people have about this game, yet no, Bioware refuse to comment or acknowledge them, and the herp derp blind sheep that follow the game keep on saying that no valid criticisms are being raised as to why this game is bad.

Both bioware and their newfound fans have gone completely blind and senseless to video game quality.  

ohh but they have aknowledged all these issues with mr laidlaws interview where he stated that the reused environments could serve as a better way for gamers to explore an area thoroughly(or something like that)..someone post the link to that horrendous interview

[astreqwerty]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Emerald Melios wrote...

This whole forum is a trainwreck, between the wangsting elitists and image spammers.

Now, I'm sure Bioware knew they had a limited time frame to develop DA2. They probably weren't trying to make an "OMGepic masterpiece" like DA:O or BG2; they wanted to make a decent game with the resources they had. I think people should just appreciate what they have get rid of this entitlement complex.

if you read a bit more than the hate threads you`ll see bioware had little to do with the end result sold at stores,and as for entitlment complex,well thats just a natural reaction to people taking money for a product.

you see when people earn thier money they tend to put value on it,and where it goes,and when someone picks thier pocket by any means,even if its just by mislabeling a game,they get angry.

sorry but thats just the real world we live in when we leave our parents safe zone behind and venture out into the world.


ps..thanks to the OP for listing the problems,now if everyone can link this thread when those claiming theres no problem,we can stop the argueing,as its pretty hard to hold a point when a list like thats in plain sight.

i love the air of calm kick-assness in this post

[Psython]

I agree with the original post. Maybe thats just because I'm an "elitist" lol. The term elitist is a meaningless slur used to discredit people's opinions that the user doesn't agree with or more likely in denial of. It is most likely used by children and manbabies who are incabable of thinking objectivly about anything.

Anyways, maybe DA2 is the slap in the face that Bioware needs to get it together and improve as a developer. Perhaps it will inspire them to better things? That will only happen if they actually listen to their feedback.

[Opalidor]

Riloux wrote...

-Reusing the same four maps 500 times.
-The whole game takes place in one city.
-Enemies have tons of HP and come in waves so the game feels longer.
-Frame narrative to avoid being too descriptive about what happens between large periods of time.
-Half as much dialogue, more passive interaction.
-Millions of stupid side quests that have nothing to do with anything.
-Dull environment bereft of life and matter.
-Inability to customize companions allows you to skip designing different armor models.
-Collecting hundreds of-- literally, junk items-- to create the illusion of immersion and depth.
-Poor character development, so you hardly care about your companions by the end of the game. 
-Lack of any substantial choices that have lasting effects.
-Contrived ending, that tells you nothing, and leaves a huge gap for sub-par DLC
-Generic UI showing a lack of creativitiy and effort.

You lose! Good day, serrah. 

This game is a far greater source of embarassment for your company than it is a disappointment for us.

/signed great summary

[Grobvolk]

jcb101 wrote...

The OP precisely sums up what's wrong with the game in both my view and those of the dissenting majority. I hope that of all the angry threads on this forum, this is the one read and digested by whoever makes decisions in the Bioware hierarchy on what'll happen with this franchises future. I'm confident that Bioware won't make the same mistake twice of alienating and dividing it's fanbase like this for fun and profit.

I'm confident that Dragon Age 3 will address all those issues, and on top of that, be a better game than both Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins combined. Either that or Bioware risks losing what made them great in the first place, and fall by the shadow of mediocrity that has taken most of their peers...

Change can be both good and bad, but excuses for an obviously rushed product promoted as "streamlined" or "enhancements" are sad IMHO. Please Bioware read the OP's list.

---
a long time bioware fan

Here's what I think will happen: Bioware will get the greenlight for DA 3 with yet another way too tight deadline and they will further try to make the game less of a hassle to steer with a controller, which will either result in another half-assed failure or the realization that a controller is just not that great an input device for a tactical rpg with multiple characters. If the latter occurs they might even go all the way and make an action game in the vein of God of War and the like, which is fine too if done right, but something entirely different from the original Dragon Age or any RPG for that matter. But I honestly don't think Bioware got it in them to make fun responsive gameplay mechanics

[Emerald Melios]

I should've known this forum would be filled with oldschool gamers who can't cope with modern gaming.

[Lakshri]

thing I hate most about this is they made us pre-order game long before release to get bonus items / dlc .. rewarding most loyal customers who loved origins and that 3rd tome with facebook spam to get even more sales and in the end we get game that looks more like dynasty warriors than DAO

[AFCommando]

Riloux wrote...

-Reusing the same four maps 500 times.
-The whole game takes place in one city.
-Enemies have tons of HP and come in waves so the game feels longer.
-Frame narrative to avoid being too descriptive about what happens between large periods of time.
-Half as much dialogue, more passive interaction.
-Millions of stupid side quests that have nothing to do with anything.
-Dull environment bereft of life and matter.
-Inability to customize companions allows you to skip designing different armor models.
-Collecting hundreds of-- literally, junk items-- to create the illusion of immersion and depth.
-Poor character development, so you hardly care about your companions by the end of the game. 
-Lack of any substantial choices that have lasting effects.
-Contrived ending, that tells you nothing, and leaves a huge gap for sub-par DLC
-Generic UI showing a lack of creativitiy and effort.

You lose! Good day, serrah. 

This game is a far greater source of embarassment for your company than it is a disappointment for us.

all true, the Biodrones here are crazy.

if bioware **** in a bag they would probably buy it for 70 dollars.

thanks EA.

and for people ****ing about people cant handle change if change involves reusing everything and the game haveing no emotion then **** change.

[IronVanguard]

Tamcia wrote...

Sadly a lot of truth. I never got the turn in quests - how did he know to take a specific item and give to specific person somewhere while even the person receiving it was surprised. HOW!?

Blood magic, of course. Those damn Apostates. Right of Annulment, here to save us from silly quests.


I will say though, I liked some of the side quests, especially when those decisions and characters came back in later quests, even main quests.

[Taxonomical]

Riloux wrote...


-Inability to customize companions allows you to skip designing different armor models.

This is actually what bothered me the most, though I do totally agree with the entirety of your list.

They obviously made that decision because they didn't want to make meshes for each body type. If you ever tried making an elaborate NWN2 mod, you'd know what I'm talking about. You have to make different versions of the armor to accomodate different races. Since they changed elves and Quanari to look more distinct, they obviously got lazy and figured "Heck, just make it so they can't change the armor!...problem solved and development time cut!"