114 réponses à ce sujet

[Buffy-Summers]

Very nice polling set

Nice data

Its obvious that DAO is a far superior game in most respects

[colata]

oldmansavage wrote...

Hard to gauge the true amount of Yays and Nays.  There are probably more people that like this game than Origins because its catered to the button mashing masses.

Hardly deniable:D

We can't change sentiment of casual gamers, it's wiser to give up the big dream.

[scq]

Gatt9 wrote...

SteveGarbage wrote...

Your polling is admirable, but one major flaw is that it takes a sample size only from this site. While the BioWare forums are great to find the most vocal fans, it's hard to say its truly representative of the whole market. I'm sure if you took a poll on Mass Effect 2 when it was released here on the forums it probably would have come out similar, however that game has been highly regarded in the market.

Mmmm...Carefull there.  Press manipulation kicked in a long time ago.  Alot of sites remove low scores after a period of time when they think a user won't notice.  Especially if a user creates an account just to express his displeasure with one game that really irked him,  they get invalidated for only rating one or two games and then not logging in for awhile.  Some sites also intentionally prune ratings below a certain threshold as trolling,  but leave equally unrealistically high ones.

They see it as a credibility issue,  if they rate a game as an 8,  but the users settle down to a 6,  doesn't look good for them.  So they narrow the spread to be more inline with their numbers,  so they look more credible.  Since their ratings are generally overinflated,  they do it by "Pruning the trolls".

So it's really up in the air how highly regarded it is,  there's no metric that can be used at this point.

Edit:

The problem with pruning the trolls is equivalent to Facebook like/dislike.  Very often people use the extreme ends of the scale and maybe the middle.  Especially the younger you get,  the more absolute it is.  So essentially pruning removes some unknown number of valid responses because many see the range as only 3 options 0/5/10.  Sucks/Ok/Great.

These are interesting forum stats. Thanks for gathering them. Ultimately, Bioware and EA will likely work of sales figures and those metrics they collect (completion, player class/type etc.) and use that as a basis. As amazing as DA:O was, many people still forget that only a fraction of those who started the game finished it to completion, which was a major prompt for Bioware to try to win those people over. Unfortunately, that seemed to have alienated some.

I don't think it was so much as looking at ME2 and seeing how that was a huge success and trying to copy the formula over. It was probably more like what made ME2 such a big success and why did DA:O flop in the mainstream and how can we fix that.

I only hope that DA3 will try to bring back some of the lost elements in DA2 and appease everybody. I personally am just enjoying DA2 a lot, other than a glitch in Act 3 which I am waiting for a resolution.

[Kastagir]

Cataphract1014 wrote...

Not to diminish the polls or anything, but with a game that sold over 3 million copies, and its sequel that is probably over a million. 3 polls that don't even have 1000 votes combined on them mean very little in the grand scheme of things.

Only a small fraction of consumers visit the forums, and forum members influenced the changes that made DA2 what it is (according to Mark Laidlaw), so I wouldn't discount 1000 votes on a forum, or its value as feedback to a developer that seems starved for constructive criticism.

[aaniadyen]

Cataphract1014 wrote...

Not to diminish the polls or anything, but with a game that sold over 3 million copies, and its sequel that is probably over a million. 3 polls that don't even have 1000 votes combined on them mean very little in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, but they represent the general opinions of those in Bioware's camp. It's not meant to get the feeling of every single person who bought the game. To be serious...when the people who love your company enough to take a poll on your social site don't like a game you made...that's saying something.

[88mphSlayer]

scq wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

SteveGarbage wrote...

Your polling is admirable, but one major flaw is that it takes a sample size only from this site. While the BioWare forums are great to find the most vocal fans, it's hard to say its truly representative of the whole market. I'm sure if you took a poll on Mass Effect 2 when it was released here on the forums it probably would have come out similar, however that game has been highly regarded in the market.

Mmmm...Carefull there.  Press manipulation kicked in a long time ago.  Alot of sites remove low scores after a period of time when they think a user won't notice.  Especially if a user creates an account just to express his displeasure with one game that really irked him,  they get invalidated for only rating one or two games and then not logging in for awhile.  Some sites also intentionally prune ratings below a certain threshold as trolling,  but leave equally unrealistically high ones.

They see it as a credibility issue,  if they rate a game as an 8,  but the users settle down to a 6,  doesn't look good for them.  So they narrow the spread to be more inline with their numbers,  so they look more credible.  Since their ratings are generally overinflated,  they do it by "Pruning the trolls".

So it's really up in the air how highly regarded it is,  there's no metric that can be used at this point.

Edit:

The problem with pruning the trolls is equivalent to Facebook like/dislike.  Very often people use the extreme ends of the scale and maybe the middle.  Especially the younger you get,  the more absolute it is.  So essentially pruning removes some unknown number of valid responses because many see the range as only 3 options 0/5/10.  Sucks/Ok/Great.

These are interesting forum stats. Thanks for gathering them. Ultimately, Bioware and EA will likely work of sales figures and those metrics they collect (completion, player class/type etc.) and use that as a basis. As amazing as DA:O was, many people still forget that only a fraction of those who started the game finished it to completion, which was a major prompt for Bioware to try to win those people over. Unfortunately, that seemed to have alienated some.

I don't think it was so much as looking at ME2 and seeing how that was a huge success and trying to copy the formula over. It was probably more like what made ME2 such a big success and why did DA:O flop in the mainstream and how can we fix that.

I only hope that DA3 will try to bring back some of the lost elements in DA2 and appease everybody. I personally am just enjoying DA2 a lot, other than a glitch in Act 3 which I am waiting for a resolution.

oh for sure there were some legit reasons for making sweeping changes with DA2, and i appreciate the concepts of DA2 as somebody who enjoyed DAO such as not being a story about going to areas A,B,C,D then area E for the final battle, or just playing as another "chosen one", as well as going back to urban fantasy which is something Bioware really hasn't done in a decade and abandoning the generic LOTR style

but the sweeping sentiment tho is that the game could've used at least another year in the incubation chamber

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 14 mars 2011 - 04:28 .

[Sonris89]

The short of this game, even if you liked it, it needed another act or two. It felt unfinished. And I loved it.

[Loremazd]

It's tricky, and to be accurate on all counts would require the same people voting in all the polls.

Honestly, there's almost no conclusive information you can really garner on this as the sample wasn't taken at random, done on different days, and likely had a completely different set of people answers all three.

That being said, I'd be inclined to agree with the results. Majority do not hate it, but likely either preferred the original or thought it was equal.

[Jazharah]

StonerMkII wrote...

Jazharah wrote...

I like what you did there, but there is one BIG thing to keep in mind.
You clearly state this is a snippet from the forums, and applies only to the people to the forums, which makes it relevant to us forumites.
The thing to keep in mind is that the people that really really like DA2 that visit these boards, are likely not visiting the forums at this very time. The polls you made were held during the time that DA2 was *just* on the shelves, in its first week; which is the time most people who pre-ordered or got the game at release are spending time inside the game, not on the forums. I am an example in this: I started playing the game at midnight release and am now halfway through my second playthrough while I visited the forums only twice in that time, and I hadn't even noticed your polls.

I wouldn't say your test group is too small to represent a general opinion from the people around here, but I do think that group could not possibly include a relevant representatation, simply because the people who *do* enjoy DA2 were too busy playing it.

It's great to see that you took some actual figures, but I can say with 90% certainty that if you do the exact same polls in two weeks, when people are on their second or third playthrough and come here to check on strategies and make sure they pick up things they missed, your results will be completely different; probably also because the haters are done hating by then. So even then, it would not realistically represent a general sentiment - unless you would compare that new poll with the polls you just held.

Thank you for your efforts though, it's appreciated.

Even in the two weeks, when the "haters" leave, he still wont get accurate results, because those who disliked the game wont be here and would have moved on, leaving those who love the game to taint the results, much like the "haters" are here. A lot of people are still playing the game and not on the forums to voice their opinion.

To the OP it is interesting information but generally you will never get accurate results, because two weeks time, those who disliked the game will move on to something else, and you will be left with nothing but fanboys, and how would that give you any kind of accurate results? Unless EA and BioWare launch a massive polling campaign to get feedback simply polling people here will be next to useles.

You just drove my point home. I didn't say it with as many words, but yes, that was the underlying message as well. The point being that it is really hard to get a 'general impression' without taking the same polls over different times.

Sharkey1337 wrote...
I definitely can't argue against that, it's hard enough for people to actually see the polls let alone get them to vote. I'm sure if I were to do new polls a month from now (I might even do just that) we would probably see some different results. Still though, you can't deny that there is a lot of upset people, but there are also a lot of people who like the game. I really do appreciate your post as it does show just how unperfect my method was, I can greatly agree with that, but it does say something when over 200 people out of 400+ not liking the game. Again, thanks for the post, seriously!

You're welcome. I would greatly encourage to continue polling in a week or two, and maybe again in another 6 weeks to get a good average result with all haters and playrers represented. It is definitely something I'd like to see a more based figure on and I'm sure BW (like Stanley indicated by underlining your topic) would appreciate in one way or another as well.

Keep up the good work

[Godeshus]

There are some flaws in your stats that I believe makes them quite unreliable.

1. 400 some odd people hardly represents the millions of gamers who bought this. You're only polling one demographic- bioware forumites.

2.The game was just released, and if you look at other releases from Bioware over the past few years there is a trend of hate for the first couple weeks after a title release (not looking to get into a 'this game good/bad contest here...just stating the facts)
-so not only, as you say, most people liked DA:O so they're here to follow up on the series. You would have had to have that poll on DA:O when it was released to get relevant results. Right now you're just comparing apples and oranges.

DA:O is like a lover you parted ways with. While you are in the relationship things are rocky...there's high ups and low downs and it's always going back and forth. But a couple years later, looking back, all you remember is the good things and the bad things just don't seem all that bad anymore. So it is with DA:O.

I would wait a month or 2 and try to gather some stats again. This game is way too fresh to be able to gather any reliable data on it yet.

Even though you stated that you know the results will have flaws, people cling to statistics like fact. If it's in the form of a percentage it seems to leave an impression of accuracy, regardless of if it is or not. As a lab scientist you should know better than to mislead people with mostly irrelevant statistics.

Modifié par Godeshus, 14 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[AlanC9]

Not to mention that he's getting response bias on top of response bias. Asking people for their opinions this way will never get you anything worthwhile.

[88mphSlayer]

Godeshus wrote...

There are some flaws in your stats that I believe makes them quite unreliable.

1. 400 some odd people hardly represents the millions of gamers who bought this. You're only polling one demographic- bioware forumites.

2.The game was just released, and if you look at other releases from Bioware over the past few years there is a trend of hate for the first couple weeks after a title release (not looking to get into a 'this game good/bad contest here...just stating the facts)
-so not only, as you say, most people liked DA:O so they're here to follow up on the series. You would have had to have that poll on DA:O when it was released to get relevant results. Right now you're just comparing apples and oranges.

DA:O is like a lover you parted ways with. While you are in the relationship things are rocky...there's high ups and low downs and it's always going back and forth. But a couple years later, looking back, all you remember is the good things and the bad things just don't seem all that bad anymore. So it is with DA:O.

I would wait a month or 2 and try to gather some stats again. This game is way too fresh to be able to gather any reliable data on it yet.

1 - that was his point, there's no reliable way to survey everybody that bought the game or wanted to buy it or thought of buying it or for that matter finding out everybody who did or didn't like DAO and liked/didn't like DA2... so polling forumites is accurate for forumites and that's about as good as it gets for now

2 - it goes both ways really, the people enjoying the game might not be on the forum right now but in a month the people who didn't enjoy the game definitely won't still be here, so either way your poll might not be accurate for everybody everywhere, so you really have to just go with "what are things like right now"

[Godeshus]

damn you you quoted me faster than I could edit!!

[Godeshus]

88mphSlayer wrote...


2 - it goes both ways really, the people enjoying the game might not be on the forum right now but in a month the people who didn't enjoy the game definitely won't still be here, so either way your poll might not be accurate for everybody everywhere, so you really have to just go with "what are things like right now"

I know, that's why you have to take stats like this with a grain of salt. My beef is that the majority of people don't. They look at numbers and see facts, regardless of how they're presented.

[Hathur]

One thing to keep in mind about these forums & any forum in general.. most people in a forum who take the time to post a complaint represent the vocal minority... as it is human nature to voice our opinion when displeased.

A contented or happy person seldom voices or expressed that they are happy / content to the same extent or frequency as a discontented person.

Thus, while the polls are interesting to look at, they also represent a potentially miniscule percentage of people who actually liked DAO or DA2.

Of the 14 people I know in the corporeal world (i.e. "real life".. friends, family, etc) who played DAO, not one of them has ever posted, let alone visited these forums. When I sent them an email a few days ago asking if they like DAO, 12 said they did, 2 said they did not. Of the 14, 9 have played DA2, all 9 said they enjoyed Da2 and do not regret purchasing it.

Just have to keep in mind the majority of the people who visit these forums (not all though.. some are like me who are contented / happy but visit here out of morbid curiosity) are going to be the loudest people who play the game (people pissed off with DA2).

Modifié par Hathur, 14 mars 2011 - 04:53 .

[Hiei987]

It is difficult to get any sort of accurate numbers for this type of a subject. It is natural that people who were disapointed will come to the forums to complain about it, rather than those who like it to praise it. Three steps forward two steps back (not other way around) is the best way to describe this game and it will be intresting to see the sales figures for it. DA2 really is an extremely controversial title and is likely to set standards for the RPG genre for many years to come.

[bsbcaer]

Sharkey1337 wrote...

 So I was curious at the sheer bipolar effect Dragon Age 2 has caused on this forum. Just how split was the community on the game? I made several polls and found some interesting results. Now granted I'm no professional statician, I'm a lab scientist, but I do understand the scientific method and realize my method isn't solid. HOWEVER, these numbers match up pretty well to each other and clearly matches the forum's enviroment from what I've seen. So let's take a look at some of these numbers.

My first poll was a simple Yay! or Nay! response on an overall opinion of Dragon Age 2. Out of a current number of 417 voters, 215 (52%) responded with Nay! while 202 (48%) responded with Yay! The community is perfectly split on their opinion of the game, 1:2 people either like it or hate it. Seems pretty consistent with the type of threads we've been seeing. poll link: social.bioware.com/956165/polls/16602/

Seeing such a split in opinions for DA2, I created a second Yay!/Nay! poll for Dragon Age: Origins. Only 172 responded on this one, however the smaller pool gives a pretty accurate picture. In terms of DAO, there were 148 (86%) Yays!, greatly outnumbering the 24 (14%) Nays! Makes sense as being a fan of the first game obviously means you're here on the DA2 forum for liking the series so far.
poll link: social.bioware.com/956165/polls/16646/

In seeing that 14% not liking DA:O I figured it was time to see opinions on both games in comparison to each other. Here I gave voters the option of choosing preferance to DAO, DA2, liking both equally, or disliking both. This is where it got rather interesting to me in some of the results. Out of 170 voters, 101 (59%) prefered DAO, 24 (14%) prefered DA2, 42 (25%) liked both games equally, and a whopping 3 (2%) disliked both games.
poll link: social.bioware.com/956165/polls/16696/

In conclusion these polls tell me several things:

• Only half the community likes DA2, a severe drop from the first game.
• Only a third of DAO fans actually like DA2.
• Those that disliked DAO seem to have been won over by DA2.
• 2% of us are trolls, lol.

Overall, it's pretty clear that Bioware has a lot of feedback to listen to on DA2. They've accomplished in winning over people that didn't like DAO, however they disappointed twice that number of fans of the first game. Not exactly the progress I'm sure they were hoping to make.

So fellow community members, discuss! 

Just a quick question on the methodology...Shouldn't there have been a third option (neither like nor dislike) in each of the polls in order for results?

[Jaws_Victim]

Excellent polling, reflects my opinion perfectly. I greatly preferred origins.

[Shadowcrazy4]

scq wrote...

Ultimately, Bioware and EA will likely work of sales figures and those metrics they collect (completion, player class/type etc.) and use that as a basis. As amazing as DA:O was, many people still forget that only a fraction of those who started the game finished it to completion, which was a major prompt for Bioware to try to win those people over. Unfortunately, that seemed to have alienated some

here's some "metrics" for them then:

my name is Domingo C. and I am one of many proud owners of Dragon Age: Origins...and yes I gave it my time and BEAT it.

I beat the game as Domingo...an elf (city elf to be exact...but tbh i wanted to be a dalish apostate) battle mage who wielded fierce swords while still able to cast magic...I started from nothing and joined the grey wardens and became a hero and a legend. I fell madly in love with Morrigan and took down Flemeth (or so i thought) just to protect the woman I loved. After meeting so many colorful characters and living MY life and telling MY story (not letting someone else tell it for me) I managed to slay the archdemon while keeping my best friend alive to put him on the throne as our next king.

that was my story....what's yours?

sorry to go off topic like that...but hearing that they simply went on statistics and sales figures and all this junk that ended us with DA2...I wanted to REMIND them of my statistics and why I wanted to KEEP them that way....in the end these polls were a good idea...I just hope there's still time for Bioware to slap EA's hands our of their way and go back to making a game we actually LOVED.

[Luvinn]

Its a good start, and infinitely better than people who just constantly post, "this game sucks!". Nice to see people do something constructive!

With the first poll though, i think more than a yay or nay was necessary to get a more accurate result. People on the fence might of picked that option instead. And just because someone voted a "nay" might not mean that they actually didnt like the game itself, just a feature or 2

[Morducai]

nice. Now lets hope they take these numbers into consideration.

[BaronIveagh]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

According to the reviews, the people that hate DA2 are a minority.

Not according to the reviews on Metacritic and Amazon...

[Morducai]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

According to the reviews, the people that hate DA2 are a minority.

Reviews only reflect the opinion of a single person. IMO, most reviews these days are just glorified PR. Abviously the amount of people that are dissatisfied with DA2 is not a minority at all. What matters is the opnion of the gamers not the reviewers.  

Modifié par Morducai, 14 mars 2011 - 06:47 .

[hangmans tree]

I think that those polls should be done on external gaming forums (other than BSN that is). The test group treshold should be higher, few thousands at least. The numbers are to tiny, miniscule even, to really mean something. I appriciate the effort myself but to make a meaningful statistic you need a wider range of participants.
And that is how you can start your master's thesis - you've got methodology and the empirical part covered

[Krozall]

 Interesting feedback great poll. Can you do this poll again in a month when everything cools down?  I'm curious to see a comparision.